Simultaneous Firewire Issue

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by Griffinity, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. Griffinity macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    #1
    I just got a new MBP, and today I sat down to do my first video capturing with Final Cut Studio 2. I have a 500GB Western Digital MyBook Studio, which I'd like to use as a scratch disk, connected via Firewire 800, and I have a Canon GL2 connected via Firewire 400. The MBP recognizes the hard drive, and I don't see anything about the camera (I don't know if I should - Macs are new to me.) When I start up Final Cut, the hard drive disconnects from the computer, and I get a warning that I shouldn't have unplugged my hard drive. It seems that as long as the camera is plugged in, Final Cut boots the hard drive off the computer. Without the camera, the hard drive is fine. But obviously I need them both. Any ideas why this might be happening to me? Thanks.
     
  2. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Location:
    On the Left Coast - Victoria BC Canada
    #2
    IDK what your actual problem is, but MyBooks have been notoriously flaky on Firewire.
     
  3. Griffinity thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    #3
    I just spoke to Apple Care, and apparently there's a known issue with Canon cameras and Western Digital hard drives. I'm glad to know it's not my Mac, but this sucks, because this is my only camera and my only drive. I'll talk to WD and see if they can do anything, but I don't suppose anyone out there has had this problem or knows a way around it?
     
  4. Rufus000 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    #4
    my gl2

    I'm right there with you. I have a LaCie big disk extreme, 1 TB. Brand new imac with Leopard. And a Canon GL2.

    I have my LaCie connected to my imac via Firewire 800, then my GL2 connected to my LaCie drive via firewire 400 (daisy chained).

    First off, it doesn't show my camera on the desktop, which according to LaCie it should pop up automatically when its connected to the drive. When I open Final Cut Express, it recognized my camera as a VTR, but only for a second before going into some hardcore processing (mouse pointer turns into a 'busy' wheel). It'll stop for a couple of seconds, then repeat the same process. Very frustrating. If I try and advance the tape in my camera using Final Cut's log wheel, it crashes my imac.

    Like you, this is my set-up. Not much wiggle room here. I've sent an email to LaCe's support, but they're famous for having shoddy customer service. Can you guys help?
     
  5. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #5
    Griffinity,
    I've used a GL2 at the same time as a MyBook, but on a tower not a laptop. Since you have a MBP you might try buying a FW express card so you can plug the HDD and the camera into different FW buses which might help.

    Rufus000,
    A video camera like the GL2 won't show up on your desktop like a drive. Try plugging your HDD and camera into different FW slots as daisy chaining is known to cause problems.


    Lethal
     
  6. Jopling macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2004
    #6
    I had this same problem on my 17inch powerbook with a canon xl2 and a 250gb lacie through fw800
     
  7. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #7
    I wonder if mixing the FW800 and 400 is causing the freak out. Has anyone tried using FW400 to connect the HDD?


    Lethal
     
  8. Rufus000 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
  9. Rufus000 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    #9
    Ack. My LacCe drive only has one Firewire 400, two Firewire 800. I have to go from my GL2 to the firewire 400-- the don't make (as far as I know) a conversion cable from DV to Firewire 800-- only 400. Good suggestion, but no go....
     
  10. chinarider macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    #10
    My guess is the problem is using the 2 bandwidth-intense connections on the same firewire bus (as someone already posted)

    When I am capturing, I use an Expresscard firwire card - And no problems (Well, actually one - I originally had a FW400 device connected to a 800 expresscard with a FW400-800 cable. When I connected the device to the internal 400 port on MBP and my HD to the 800 expresscard, things worked fine.)
     
  11. Rufus000 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    #11
    GL2 and firewire

    Well, seems the only way to get around my problem is to first dump the video to my internal hard drive, then move it over to my external drive and let Final Cut relink it. No problems if I do it that way. It irks me that I have to tax my internal drive though, all because Canon can't get their tech straight with firewire.

    Which, by the way, seems to be the source of the problem. That LaCie drive is made to daisy chain like I had intended. But Canon cameras (as I've found out) are notorious for having problems with firewire. What a joke, who can afford a $3500 deck? If you could, why would you be using a Canon?? :p

    But anyway. If anyone else has this problem, and capturing video to your internal hard drive is possible, that's the only work around I've found that works. I can only have one attachment on my imac (either my LaCie drive OR my Canon GL2, I can't have both at the same time-- i more than suspect that's because they work on the same bus) so disconnecting and reconnecting is a bit of a pain. But hey, if it works you know?

    Thank you guys for your input!!!
     
  12. Griffinity thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    #12
    I spoke to WD, and the Level 2 Technician had never heard of the problem between WD drives and Canon cameras. He suggested it may be a problem with the firewire ports sharing the same bus, and recommended I use the USB2.0 on my WD drive instead.

    So far, that works, and USB2.0 should be plenty fast for video capturing, and then I can switch over to Firewire 800 while editing.

    I also tried upgrading the firmware, but that did nothing.

    At least I can make this work. I just hate that there is any problem at all. (My Sony camera doesn't cause any problems when I try to capture using both firewire ports.)
     
  13. Dark Goob macrumors regular

    Dark Goob

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #13
    I am the authority on this problem (since I have been having it since the PowerBook G4).

    Basically here's the rundown.

    Fact: a Canon GL2 (or, I assume, any other Canon DV camera) cannot share a FireWire bus with a FW hard drive. Period.

    Fact: both the Firewire 800 and Firewire 400 ports on the MacBook Pro share the same FireWire bus. Therefore the Canon GL2 cannot coexist with a FireWire hard drive. (F***ING DOH!!! Can we say "MAJOR BUG"??)

    Fact: this did NOT happen under OS 9, EVER.

    Workaround A: buy yourself a FireWire 800 ExpressCard and connect your hard drive to that.

    Workaround B: buy yourself a FireWire 400 ExpressCard and connect your camera to that.

    (Both workarounds A and B work because they create a second FireWire bus thus ameliorating the problem.)

    Workaround C: if your hard drive also has a USB interface, then connect it via USB (just make sure to use the right-hand side USB port, since the left-hand side one is notorious for being noisy and thus dropping frames during capture... just google "left hand USB port MacBook Pro" for a good laugh... thanks, Apple).

    Workaround D: if your hard drive also has an eSATA port, buy yourself an eSATA ExpressCard and use that. Incidentally, AFAIK, this is the fastest drive interface, and is much better than FireWire 800. Pretty sure.

    <rant> Incidentally, they SELL eSATA ExpressCards at the Apple store! LOL! They charge you $2500 for the computer, then you have to come back and they rape you for a card to make it work right! Apple should f****ing GIVE free eSATA cards to anyone who bought MacBook Pros and are having this problem... because I mean seriously, it should COME WITH an eSATA port built-in, to begin with, not to mention that FireWire is an interface that Apple freaking invented and so it should work with the Canon video cameras THAT APPLE ALSO SELLS. </rant>

    -=DG=-
     
  14. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #14
    For a current project I captured 120hrs of DV via a Canon GL2 onto FW400 drives w/both the camera and drive sharing the same bus on a G4 tower.


    Lethal
     
  15. chinarider macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    #15
    Since you are the authority on this matter, then I don't have to tell you that these issues are not Apple-specific. What you call a "Major Bug" is pretty standard. What systems did you look at that DID have a separate Bus?

    The MBP is a combination of power and portability - They don't have room to fit everything you want in there - ie: Everything on a separate bus, eSATA.

    In addition, not everyone NEEDS eSATA or a Separate firewire bus - Thus, it comes with an expresscard slot so you can expand it as you want (hey, pretty smart there huh?)

    It sounds like you should sell your MBP and get something else (desktop maybe?) since it angers you so much to not have bought what you needed. Keep in mind that most manufacturers clearly state what features are on each system - Pay close attention there so you can ensure you get the ports you want.
     
  16. CaptainChunk macrumors 68020

    CaptainChunk

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Location:
    Tempe, AZ
    #16
    Funny you mention that, because I've noticed similar weirdness on my left-side USB port. Earlier today, I connected my cinematographer's USB jump drive to give him some press photos from our recent production, and it was painfully slow (like 18 minutes to transfer 500MB). 2 minutes on the right-side port. Weird...

    I think ALL ports should have been located on the left side of the machine, anyway. If you use an external mouse, it's a nuisance when you have a jungle of interface cables to bump into (at least for us righties, anyway). Oh yeah, and what happened to the olden days when all laptops had their interface ports on the back panel? Sure, it's a pain to plug things in at times, but nothing ever got in the way.
     

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