Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

mavericks7913

Suspended
Original poster
May 17, 2014
812
281
Im expecting new Mac Pro to be better but I really doubt about if they gonna make upgradable Mac Pro since all Mac computers are all in one computer which is no upgradable for a while. Even they do make one, MacOS need to support softwares too. I really wish to see liquid cooler in Mac computer since it performed way better than air cooler which I tried before. We know that PC can be built with less amount of money but perform much better than Mac Pro or others. I really think that Apple should do something about mac pro. If it's just too expansive with ridiculous design like Mac Pro 2013, they are dumb.
 

Auggie

macrumors 6502
Jan 21, 2017
384
108
I really wish to see liquid cooler in Mac computer since it performed way better than air cooler which I tried before.

Apple tried liquid cooling before with their dual-CPU Power Mac G5's (the grand-daddy of the cMP), which I was one of the first to purchase. The liquid cooling system eventually sprung a leak long past it's AppleCare coverage, but Apple still replaced it free of charge. Their quick resolution to outright replace the entire machine no-questions-asked supports anecdotal evidence that cooling leakage was a common occurrence.

From this experience, I just don't see Apple trying their hand at liquid cooling again in the "mMP"...
 

PinkyMacGodess

Suspended
Mar 7, 2007
10,271
6,226
Midwest America.
Apple tried liquid cooling before with their dual-CPU Power Mac G5's (the grand-daddy of the cMP), which I was one of the first to purchase. The liquid cooling system eventually sprung a leak long past it's AppleCare coverage, but Apple still replaced it free of charge. Their quick resolution to outright replace the entire machine no-questions-asked supports anecdotal evidence that cooling leakage was a common occurrence.

From this experience, I just don't see Apple trying their hand at liquid cooling again in the "mMP"...

But wasn't the leak caused by the fluid they used? Corrosion?

There are less destructive cooling compounds available now, from what I've heard, yet I don't see any move to liquid cooling from anyone else. Also better plumbing. Not that it's a sure thing that Apple won't pull the 'Maverick' card and do another one.
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,615
8,547
Hong Kong
AFAIK,liquid cooling is good for

1) extreme OC
2) small form factor

Apart from that. A good air cooler can work as good as (if not better) then liquid cooling.

In fact, for extreme OC, it's not just liquid cooling, but something like liquid nitrogen. That's for reason why the whole system must be liquid cooled.

Since Mac will not be OC-able. And by considering the Mac Pro suppose to be a work station, which require stability more than extreme performance. It's not suitable to OC anyway. So, reason "1" is not a valid on the coming 7,1.

And as long as Apple willing to give the 7,1 a decent size case which can fit in a good air cooler. Reason "2" is also not applicable.

So, I don't think the 7,1 really need liquid cooling, which generally give more trouble than air cool. And for a known TDP hardware. As long as Apple use a decent air cooler. The CPU should able to perform exactly the same as if liquid cooled.

Also, a decent air cooler usually quieter, cheaper, and easier to maintain / manage.

I know quite a few computer guys, their comments are more or less the same. All liquid cooling system leak at some stage, just when and how. By considering the Mac Pro can run 24/7 for something like 10 years. I don't think liquid cooling is good idea.
 

mavericks7913

Suspended
Original poster
May 17, 2014
812
281
AFAIK,liquid cooling is good for

1) extreme OC
2) small form factor

Apart from that. A good air cooler can work as good as (if not better) then liquid cooling.

In fact, for extreme OC, it's not just liquid cooling, but something like liquid nitrogen. That's for reason why the whole system must be liquid cooled.

Since Mac will not be OC-able. And by considering the Mac Pro suppose to be a work station, which require stability more than extreme performance. It's not suitable to OC anyway. So, reason "1" is not a valid on the coming 7,1.

And as long as Apple willing to give the 7,1 a decent size case which can fit in a good air cooler. Reason "2" is also not applicable.

So, I don't think the 7,1 really need liquid cooling, which generally give more trouble than air cool. And for a known TDP hardware. As long as Apple use a decent air cooler. The CPU should able to perform exactly the same as if liquid cooled.

Also, a decent air cooler usually quieter, cheaper, and easier to maintain / manage.

I know quite a few computer guys, their comments are more or less the same. All liquid cooling system leak at some stage, just when and how. By considering the Mac Pro can run 24/7 for something like 10 years. I don't think liquid cooling is good idea.

Water cooler is much efficient and silent than air cooler in these days. Also, there are a lot of workstation users using water cooling system because of efficiency. Not only CPU but also GPU.
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,615
8,547
Hong Kong
Water cooler is much efficient and silent than air cooler in these days. Also, there are a lot of workstation users using water cooling system because of efficiency. Not only CPU but also GPU.

I don't think so. If you go to quietpc.com, you will realise most of the suggestions are air cooled, because it's quieter.

Of course, I expect liquid cooling can make the CPU run cooler. However, that's about the size. If you put the whole liquid cooling system's size into a single air cooler. The air cooler's performance won't be too far away. May be liquid cooler will make the CPU run few degrees cooler. But that won't make the CPU run faster. And that is the matter. If the CPU run identical at 50C and 60C. There is no good reason to use liquid cooling, which is subject to leak, and noisier (for the same cost).

If you compare a high end liquid cooling system to a mid air cooler. Of course the liquid cooling system win, but that's not a fair comparison.

A high end air cooler can be very effective and extremely quiet. Like this one.

https://www.quietpc.com/nh-d15

Think about if the nMP's air cooler only have to cool down the CPU, what will happen? It's virtually silent, definitely quieter than most liquid cooler, and can keep the CPU cool very effectively. The downside of a high end air cooler? 99% is about it's size. Cost? No way can catch up the high end liquid cooling system.

Same thing also true on GPU. A good air cooler like this can effectively cool down the GPU, and quieter than the normal All in one GPU liquid cooling's pump. The down side? It's huge.

https://www.quietpc.com/gel-icy-vision
 
Last edited:

pat500000

Suspended
Jun 3, 2015
8,523
7,515
Im expecting new Mac Pro to be better but I really doubt about if they gonna make upgradable Mac Pro since all Mac computers are all in one computer which is no upgradable for a while. Even they do make one, MacOS need to support softwares too. I really wish to see liquid cooler in Mac computer since it performed way better than air cooler which I tried before. We know that PC can be built with less amount of money but perform much better than Mac Pro or others. I really think that Apple should do something about mac pro. If it's just too expansive with ridiculous design like Mac Pro 2013, they are dumb.
I wouldn't say 2013 is a failed mac pro.

Edit: i meant i dont think its totally failure.
 
Last edited:

mavericks7913

Suspended
Original poster
May 17, 2014
812
281
I wouldn't say 2013 is a failed mac pro.

Any proof that Mac Pro 2013 is not a failed product?

Let's be real. It is very stupid to cool 1 CPU and 2 GPU together with just one fan. JUST ONE FAN. Seriously? Check why both GPU and CPU require large and big coolers. It can be smaller unless it uses a liquid cooler or has less voltage and heat. Also Mac Pro is a workstation computer. Mac Pro 2013 can not perform 100% because of a stupid cooling system which has only one fan.

Lack of upgradability and expandability are another issues. How will you going to upgrade inner parts? Oh you cant. CPU? You need to tear the entire parts and loose warranty. Cant even upgrade CPU and GPU cooler. Cant even put GPU because Mac Pro 2013 is already optimized for those gpu and in order to put new gpu, then they need to redesign it(base on the link). Cant innovate more my ass? Give me a break.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/06/mac-pro-may-not-ship-until-2019/
http://www.osnews.com/story/29755/Some_notes_regarding_the_new_Mac_Pro
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/04/apple-stresses-commitment-to-pro-users/
https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/15175994/apple-mac-pro-failure-admission
https://qz.com/979502/the-mac-pro-has-failed-and-we-dont-know-what-apple-will-try-next/
https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives

These links prove that Mac Pro is a failed product. Even Apple said it's messed up. Yes, officially, Mac Pro 2013 is a failed product.
 

fendersrule

macrumors 6502
Oct 9, 2008
423
324
The Mac Pro (2013) is a failed product. Funny how there's still deniers of this. Apple themselves admitted it.

As a product designer, I've learned it is a poor choice to change a banana into an orange. Changing a product definition is rarely ever a good idea. Creating a new product definition is where innovation is, though.

Words of the wise: Don't change a truck into a car. Don't change a car into a truck. People need trucks. People need cars. Seems like Apple would have learned that by now.

No one would have been offended if the nMP was a separate product line. It just wouldn't sell well, but forcing professionals, and prosumers into that form factor was a mistake by all measures of the word.
 
Last edited:

scoobs69

macrumors 6502
Jul 20, 2009
285
361
As much as Apple has admitted the 2013 Mac Pro was a failed design, it's equally frustrating (if not more so) that Apple sat on their faces for four years doing absolutely ZERO work on a new Mac Pro.

...I wonder what suddenly made Apple decide 'remain committed' to the Mac Pro and finally begin working on a new design in 2017?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ssgbryan

Joe The Dragon

macrumors 65816
Jul 26, 2006
1,027
475
As much as Apple has admitted the 2013 Mac Pro was a failed design, it's equally frustrating (if not more so) that Apple sat on their faces for four years doing absolutely ZERO work on a new Mac Pro.

...I wonder what suddenly made Apple decide 'remain committed' to the Mac Pro and finally begin working on a new design in 2017?
amd having good cpus?? apple seeing that other pro workstations have TB loop back cables to link video card DP to the TB bus?
 

pat500000

Suspended
Jun 3, 2015
8,523
7,515
Any proof that Mac Pro 2013 is not a failed product?

Let's be real. It is very stupid to cool 1 CPU and 2 GPU together with just one fan. JUST ONE FAN. Seriously? Check why both GPU and CPU require large and big coolers. It can be smaller unless it uses a liquid cooler or has less voltage and heat. Also Mac Pro is a workstation computer. Mac Pro 2013 can not perform 100% because of a stupid cooling system which has only one fan.

Lack of upgradability and expandability are another issues. How will you going to upgrade inner parts? Oh you cant. CPU? You need to tear the entire parts and loose warranty. Cant even upgrade CPU and GPU cooler. Cant even put GPU because Mac Pro 2013 is already optimized for those gpu and in order to put new gpu, then they need to redesign it(base on the link). Cant innovate more my ass? Give me a break.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/06/mac-pro-may-not-ship-until-2019/
http://www.osnews.com/story/29755/Some_notes_regarding_the_new_Mac_Pro
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/04/apple-stresses-commitment-to-pro-users/
https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/15175994/apple-mac-pro-failure-admission
https://qz.com/979502/the-mac-pro-has-failed-and-we-dont-know-what-apple-will-try-next/
https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives

These links prove that Mac Pro is a failed product. Even Apple said it's messed up. Yes, officially, Mac Pro 2013 is a failed product.
This is just upgrability issue and thermal issue. Few apps like fcpx works well. Nmp is not the best champ machine but it is not totally unusable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ssgbryan

redheeler

macrumors G3
Oct 17, 2014
8,423
8,845
Colorado, USA
No one would have been offended if the nMP was a separate product line. It just wouldn't sell well, but forcing professionals, and prosumers into that form factor was a mistake by all measures of the word.
This is exactly what they tried back in 2000 with the Power Mac G4 Cube. And, you would also be correct in assuming that it didn't sell well with the targeted professional/power user market. That product was considered a failure.

13 years later, Apple repeats the exact same mistake, only this time in a way that is worse, and harder to correct.
 

iPadified

macrumors 68000
Apr 25, 2017
1,925
2,121
I have always thought of the nMP as an "iMac Pro" without a screen. In my opinion, the nMP should be kept, renamed into iMac Pro to allow for silent usage of more powerful processors and graphics cards than found i traditional iMacs. Only sales figures and size of profits can tell if nMP is a failure or not. The people wanting a big box has been left without an option for some time now and that is a pity. It is however a very irritating assumption by many forum members that their needs ( a big box often full of gtx cards) fulfills the needs of all professionals.
 

phrehdd

macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
4,326
1,321
Drop the price on the Mac Pro and just call it the Mac Mini Pro because it has far more in common with the Mac Mini than it ever had with the real Mac Pro of yore.
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,615
8,547
Hong Kong
I wouldn't say 2013 is a failed mac pro.

This sounds like an opinion to me. You can even believe 6,1 is a success product. It's just a personal opinion. I won't against that. You have your right to believe and express your opinion.

However, what AidenShaw pointed out is a fact. That's what Apple officially said.

We can only argue on our opinion, not the fact. And we cannot use our opinion to override a fact. 6,1 is a officially failure product.

But Apple never says pat500000 believe 6,1 is a failure product. There is simply no contradiction between your personal opinion and Apple's official statement. The 6,1 can be a huge failure to Apple, but at the same time, the best ever machine for yourself.
 

iPadified

macrumors 68000
Apr 25, 2017
1,925
2,121
This sounds like an opinion to me. You can even believe 6,1 is a success product. It's just a personal opinion. I won't against that. You have your right to believe and express your opinion.

However, what AidenShaw pointed out is a fact. That's what Apple officially said.

We can only argue on our opinion, not the fact. And we cannot use our opinion to override a fact. 6,1 is a officially failure product.

But Apple never says pat500000 believe 6,1 is a failure product. There is simply no contradiction between your personal opinion and Apple's official statement. The 6,1 can be a huge failure to Apple, but at the same time, the best ever machine for yourself.

Did they say nMP was a failure or is this an extrapolation by some at this forum (e.g Aiden)? They said that the cylinder did not have a sufficient thermal headroom and that it did not suit all users. They did not specify for what the cylinder is lacking but I guess for AR/VR developement. A failure for a commercial company is when the product does not provide a profit either directly or indirectly through other products. I have seen no such analysis from a reliable source (ie Apple). Thus all we do here is having opinions, which is fine.
 

Simon R.

macrumors 6502
Sep 25, 2006
408
131
Did they say nMP was a failure or is this an extrapolation by some at this forum (e.g Aiden)? They said that the cylinder did not have a sufficient thermal headroom and that it did not suit all users. They did not specify for what the cylinder is lacking but I guess for AR/VR developement. A failure for a commercial company is when the product does not provide a profit either directly or indirectly through other products. I have seen no such analysis from a reliable source (ie Apple). Thus all we do here is having opinions, which is fine.

Who cares what Apple called it. Everyone and their mom know it is a failure in every way.
 

iPadified

macrumors 68000
Apr 25, 2017
1,925
2,121
Who cares what Apple called it. Everyone and their mom know it is a failure in every way.

For knowing you need evidence. Have you seen Apples primary data (sales, developing costs, user feedbacks (and no mining forum opinions is not an valid way to make a representative survey), etc) about nMP? If not, you can only voice opinions about a possible failure.

I am just teasing you a little and will stop doing it before the thread gets ugly :). Have a nice day.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.