Siri remote natural scrolling

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by T5BRICK, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. T5BRICK macrumors 604

    T5BRICK

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    Aug 3, 2006
    Location:
    Oregon
    #1
    This isn't a deal breaker by any means, but am I the only one who is slightly annoyed that every other Apple device with a touch screen or track pad supports natural scrolling, but the Apple TV Siri remote doesn't?
     
  2. T5BRICK thread starter macrumors 604

    T5BRICK

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    Aug 3, 2006
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    Oregon
    #2
    For what it's worth, I already sent a feature request to Apple.
     
  3. retroneo macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    #3
    It took me more than two days to figure out what was happening. Most of the time it scrolls in the opposite direction of the Mac and iOS, but about 20% of the time it scrolls in the same direction. It's very frustrating.
     
  4. mattopotamus macrumors G4

    mattopotamus

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    #4
    I agree it is pretty inconsistent. It really messes with my mind in the multi-tasking screen. I also feel like the touch pad should be able to just be tapped vs a physical push.
     
  5. gman36 macrumors regular

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    Apr 13, 2015
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #5
    Technically, the way it is set up currently is natural.
     
  6. MrTemple macrumors regular

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    Jun 11, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver Island, BC
    #6
    Mac: Move cursor down, drag down. Move content down, drag down.

    ATV: Move cursor down, drag down. Move content down, drag down.

    What's the issue?
     
  7. Poontaco macrumors regular

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    Feb 2, 2014
    #7
    I agree. It works just like I would expect.
     
  8. gman36 macrumors regular

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    Apr 13, 2015
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    San Diego, CA
    #8
    I think everyone is confused with what the scrolling is doing. For the ATV, you are moving a "virtual" cursor around, so when you swipe right, the "cursor" will highlight the next box to the right. On a Mac, when scrolling on a webpage, natural scrolling is moving the page relative to your display. This means, when you scroll down, it acts as if you drag the web page down on the display, revealing information higher on the page.
     
  9. hollersoft macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    #9
    When focusing on small things, it feels natural to move the focus in the direction of the swipe.

    When moving a full screen view, it feels natural to move the *content* in the direction of the swipe.

    Both of these are as recommended in Apple's human interface guidelines for tvOS.

    Where it kind of breaks down is when you're moving the focus, but the focused items are large so it "feels" more like you should be moving the content. This is the case on the app switcher or the full-width banners in the top shelf for the App Store app, for example.

    Unless they abandon the whole focus model entirely, which seems extremely unlikely, I think we'll just have to get used to it. Those of us building apps will have to try and use whichever mechanism "feels" most natural in a given situation based on the HIG and user expectations based on how other apps work.
     
  10. ipedro macrumors 68040

    ipedro

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    Nov 30, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    #10
    In addition to the direction of scrolling, I find it jarring that moving elements isn't mapped to the movement of your finger. For example, when you pull down the top menu, it just comes down, even if you're still "holding it". If you're swiping through photos, swiping even slightly moves immediately to the next image. It should move like in iOS and OSX where the element sticks to your finger until you let it go. Where you can throw an element across the screen if you fling stronger or just smothly slide it with a softer finger gesture.
    The way icons wiggle on the home screen mapped perfectly to your finger in real time shows that this is possible on AppleTV. They somehow ignored this important physics UI (that they invented) everywhere else in tvOS.
    This aspect of tvOS feels really rough and unfinished. These are the kind of details that we expect Apple to pay attention to.
     
  11. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

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    Mar 7, 2008
    Location:
    Atlanta, USA
    #11
    Good point, but it may be power saving move.

    I'm guessing the remote interprets a series of finger movements on its surface and translates them into a single aTV command (eg., swipe left). It then fires that message to the aTV box in one go. Done.

    For real-time control, letting aTV know precisely where your finger is on the surface at any given time, the remote would have to fire repeated messages to the aTV box whenever your finger moved a millimeter.

    More messages = more power = shorter battery life of the remote.
     
  12. ipedro macrumors 68040

    ipedro

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    Nov 30, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    #12
    You're over analyzing it. The Siri Remote is a bluetooth trackpad. When it's on, it's on and communicating with the AppleTV. When you stop using it, it goes to sleep, just like any other Bluetooth trackpad. You could use your computer all day for months without exhausting the batteries.
     
  13. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

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    #13
    Nah, just a bunch of wild guesses. :D

    But I did find this developer document which sheds some light. Basically they've gone for a different interaction style (from what most of us were expecting).

    Personally, I found it quite alien when I played with an Apple TV for five minutes in the store, but maybe it's something you get used to?
     
  14. ipedro macrumors 68040

    ipedro

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    Nov 30, 2004
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    Toronto, ON
    #14
    I've had mine for a while now and I still mix the swipe direction with the move the focus direction. Swiping a full screen photo goes in the opposite direction as moving the focus. It's not something I think anybody will get used to. They messed up here and I'm not sure how they're going to fix that.
    The lack of physics related swiping throughout the entire OS does seem like something they're going to address as the notes in the latest beta seem to allude to.
     
  15. err404 macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    #15
    It does feel broken, even though I fully understand the logic of what is happening. The photo app is a great example of the problem. When you are scrolling though an album you see large, almost full screen thumbnails. The track pad moves the selection in the direction you swipe. Now click the photo to bring it full screen. Even though the image only zoomed in slightly, the track pad now scrolls the canvas with natural scrolling.
    It feels jarring that zooming the image has the effect or reversing the scrolling direction.
    I think Apple should opt for natural scrolling when the whole screen moves centered on your selection.
     
  16. d21mike macrumors 68040

    d21mike

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    #16
    Me too. I switched to a track pad when I switch from Windows to the Mac. They have a option for the Track Pad for "Scroll direction natural". I ask for the same option on the Apple TV. I think the Apple TV should work the same as the iPad and the Trackpad. Or at least have the same option.
     
  17. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Location:
    Atlanta, USA
    #17
    Update: Now that I've had a couple of ATVs at home for a few days it's really a non issue. There are sufficient visual cues on the UI to tell you quickly if you start scrolling the wrong way. No complaints from any family members. Everyone adapted quickly.

    I do think the UI is deficient in indicating which object has focus on the screen - but that's another thread.
     
  18. mpolda macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    #18
    I disagree. On a Mac if you enable natural scrolling the content moves in the direction you drag your finger. The new ATV is the opposite
     
  19. Robnsn2015 macrumors regular

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    Jul 12, 2015
  20. MrTemple macrumors regular

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    Jun 11, 2013
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    Vancouver Island, BC
    #20
    Can you give an example?

    Are you sure you're moving the content and not the focus?

    Is it the interface in a third-party app? I haven't found a case where it's backwards in tvOS or the Apple apps.
     
  21. err404 macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    #21
    The problem is that UI has two modes depending upon what you are doing. The first is moving the highlighted item. The second is dragging the background.
    While there are visual cues letting you know witch mode is active, the fact remains that the transition can be harsh. Especially in cases with large icons. For example when you are transitioning from almost full screen photo thumbnails to full screen mode. Contents zooms only slightly bigger, but the scroll input direction reverses.
     
  22. gman36 macrumors regular

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    Apr 13, 2015
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #22
    On the home screen, do you move the "content" or the "cursor" when going from app to app? Ill answer it for you, you move the cursor, as the adjacent app gets selected as you move your finger in that direction. For the content to move, the whole entire background with all the apps would have to move
     
  23. melapple macrumors regular

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    Aug 29, 2013
    #23
    I agree with the tap v physical push wholeheartedly. After all, if they really wanted to mimic trackpads, that's what these do.
     
  24. err404 macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    #24
    I dont think that would work well in practice. I already have issues picking up the remote and accidentally scrolling. I don't want to compound the problem with accidental clicks. Then again, I have always hated tap to click on trackpads. Maybe just make the click a shorter swing and require less pressure.
     

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