Six months later - how does everyone feel about 16GB of RAM on the base M4 Mac Mini?

[FatLouie]

Well, I understand the RAM debate, mostly when it comes from users coming from the PC/Windows world, or those that cohabitate with Apple/Windows. Often, I read where some disenchanted buyer bemoans the "Apple Tax"...there is no such thing as an "Apple Tax", no more than there is a "Starbucks Tax" on their coffee. You decide you want a $2 cup of coffee from 7-11 or you want a $5 cup of coffee from Starbucks. No tax, just a choice by the buyer if they are willing to pay a price that is determined by the manufacturer or seller.

I know individuals who spend 300 dollars a month at Starbucks but complain about the price of something else. Apple makes it very easy to buy their products monthly. A base Mac Mini M4 Pro would cost about USD 117 a month, so which is cheaper...Starbucks or the Mac Mini? What are you going to piss away in a few hours, and what will you have two years from now?

 

[Astrohunter]

Luckily I was able to get an amazing deal on eBay.

M4 Pro Mini 14 cores, 64GB, 1TB, 10GBe with 11 months of warranty for 1800£.
Now I should be fine for another 5-10 years.

 

[Luke MacWalker]

Last I looked, Apple laptops started at $999, so you’ve wasted your time there. Even in your price range you found a few 32GB RAM options, and 256GB SSD machines were a minority. Of course, laptops are extra-tricky to compare because of the screen - but if you shop around in the $900-$1300 price range of the MacBook Air, looking at retina-like screens you'll find a few 32GB options, almost universal minimum 512GB SSD. More to the point, you'll be able to find 32GB/1TB models for a lot less than a 32GB/1TB Mac.

As for the Mac Mini - looking somewhere like minisforum.uk which specialises in Mini PC, the minimum spec on £600-£800 machines (if you order them with RAM and SSD) is 32GB/1TB, whereas putting that spec in a Mac Mini famously doubles the price.

Upping the base ram to 16GB has kept the Mac range credible, but certainly hasn't kept it ahead of the game - and SSD capacities are still pathetic - and the problem is a mixture of the rather modest base specs and the horrendous price of BTO upgrades.

There are lots of other factors in choosing a PC, so the Mac Mini may have lots of other ticks in the "plus" column, but you can't get around the massive "minus" of overpriced/under-spec RAM and SSD.



You can't throw a brick on these forums without finding someone agonising over whether or not they need to pay $200 for an 8GB RAM upgrade and/or $200 for a SSD upgrade - when, anywhere else, either the base specs would cover that or a <=$200 option would get you both upgraded.

Potential customers should be agonising over whether they wanted to spend extra to get more cores, a Pro, or Max chip, - not whether they wanted to spend $400 on $100 worth of bog-standard LPDDR5x RAM and PCIe x4-grade Flash. Unfortunately - especially with the Mini range - Apple don't have the "discriminators" they used to get from different clock speeds, TDPs and iGPUs on Intel CPUs, so they have built an artificial pricing structure around RAM and Flash.

As for customer satisfaction - you can't satisfy someone until you've made them a customer. Try selling the virtues of a Mac Mini M4 (which should be a pretty impressive machine) to a PC user and then watch it all come to a shuddering halt when you tell them that matching the 32GB/1TB spec that their PC probably already has will double the price.

I don’t mind the base specs, they are fine, even though the SSD is rather on the small side. But the upgrade prices are crazy. For me the problem is the upgrades prices. I’ve been with Apple since the Apple //e, I know I will pay more than what I would if I chose to buy a PC, I’m fine with that, because I prefer what I get for this extra money.
Before Apple Silicon, the “best value” in the Mac lines was always the “better” option (remember the “Good”, “Better” and “Best” choices?) if your needs were a little over the most basic ones. Not any more.
If the prices of the upgrades were like 20-25% higher than the market prices for the parts (RAM and SSD), I would not think twice and buy the upgraded model. But when it is like 100% more, it’s crazy.
I know people have complained about Apple upgrades prices even before Apple Silicon. But at that time, it was possible to buy RAM and hard disks or SSD from 3rd parties, which kept Apple prices in check: they were higher than market prices, but not outrageously higher. Not anymore.

 

[theluggage]

I don’t mind the base specs, they are fine, even though the SSD is rather on the small side. But the upgrade prices are crazy. For me the problem is the upgrades prices.

Agree - if the base Mini does meet your needs and you must have a Mac then it sounds like a reasonable deal. However, for the extra money, the “better” version should be 24G/1TB - there’s no way to justify $200 for 256GB of extra Flash.

But at that time, it was possible to buy RAM and hard disks or SSD from 3rd parties, which kept Apple prices in check: they were higher than market prices, but not outrageously higher.

Actually, it’s been $200-per-8GB of extra RAM since forever (it was already bad in 2017 when I bought an 8GB iMac, and got a 3rd party 16GB kit to upgrade it to 24 for less than Apple wanted for an extra 8GB). Apart from the loss of DIY upgrades, Apple did nothing to address the falling cost (and increasing need for) RAM and SSD for the best part of a decade. The bump to 16GB base was long overdue, but wasn’t accompanied by any significant change in upgrade costs (some upgrade steps have gone down a bit, but not in general).

Part if the problem now is that the M4 is capable of much more than just entry-level “personal productivity” and the base Mini would be suitable for quite a lot of content creation and development work were it not for the limited RAM and storage.

 

[dubiousgif]

Luckily I was able to get an amazing deal on eBay.

M4 Pro Mini 14 cores, 64GB, 1TB, 10GBe with 11 months of warranty for 1800£.
Now I should be fine for another 5-10 years.

I got a secondhand 12 core, 1TB, 10GBe for $500USD.

…But it turned out to have an MDM lock.

 

[dubiousgif]

Agree - if the base Mini does meet your needs and you must have a Mac then it sounds like a reasonable deal. However, for the extra money, the “better” version should be 24G/1TB - there’s no way to justify $200 for 256GB of extra Flash.

Fortunately the M4 mini has user swappable internal storage and third party options are available for quite a bit cheaper. One 2TB is $350 vs $800 from Apple. Still quite a bit more than an NVMe SSD though.

 

[drrich2]

Actually, it’s been $200-per-8GB of extra RAM since forever

Part if the problem now is that the M4 is capable of much more than just entry-level “personal productivity” and the base Mini would be suitable for quite a lot of content creation and development work were it not for the limited RAM and storage.

Which brings up a probably unknowable, highly varied question. There seems to be a majority consensus a 16 gig RAM M4 MacMini would do fine for the new year years, perhaps even several. Experience teaches that eventually old computers get 'glitchy,' slow down, etc..., for a variety of reasons, with limited RAM often being a factor.

So 2 people with mainstream home user use cases buy these, one with 16 gig RAM and one with 24. 7 Years from now, the first guy notices when he was multiple app.s open and/or a bunch or browser windows open it bogs down, but he's pretty okay if he doesn't run much at ones. The 24 gig guy maybe doesn't have that problem, or not as much.

The 16 guy feels some pressure to upgrade; how much longer will the 24 guy keep his Mac before upgrading compared to the 16 guy.

There's no one answer and it's probably unknowable, but for people who like to keep their systems a long time, anybody care to venture some guesses? Trying to get a sense of what that $200 8-gig extra RAM upgrade buys you in real world use.

 

[theluggage]

Fortunately the M4 mini has user swappable internal storage and third party options are available for quite a bit cheaper. One 2TB is $350 vs $800 from Apple. Still quite a bit more than an NVMe SSD though.

That's a good thing, but many people will be put off by the idea of taking their shiny new Mini apart to fit an unofficial upgrade.

Still, the people making those have an excuse for the price - they're making relatively tiny batches of "boutique" circuit boards & buying small-fry quantities of flash chips. What's Apple's (4th/5th largest personal computer manufacturer in the world, probably one of the biggest buyers of flash RAM) excuse for their price?

The 16 guy feels some pressure to upgrade; how much longer will the 24 guy keep his Mac before upgrading compared to the 16 guy.

Except, Apple stuck at 8GB RAM base on the Mini from 2018 to 2024, so unless they do more to keep up in the future, you're gonna have the same "do I need more than 16GB" dilemma when you "upgrade" 4-6 years from now...

 

[Astrohunter]

I got a secondhand 12 core, 1TB, 10GBe for $500USD.

…But it turned out to have an MDM lock.

Do you mean it wasn't signed out of previous Apple ID?
When things are that cheap it's usually a red flag lol.

 

[Astrohunter]

Fortunately the M4 mini has user swappable internal storage and third party options are available for quite a bit cheaper. One 2TB is $350 vs $800 from Apple. Still quite a bit more than an NVMe SSD though.

I looked at some of the videos on how to replace SSD.
In some of the recent comments I've seen people mentioned having some issues with their Macs after latest updates.

Whether that's true I don't know.

 

[Boyd01]

Do you mean it wasn't signed out of previous Apple ID?

I think this is what they meant...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/any-way-to-wipe-corporate-mdm-rights-from-my-computer.2308871/

 

[Astrohunter]

I think this is what they meant...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/any-way-to-wipe-corporate-mdm-rights-from-my-computer.2308871/

Maybe you can ask them and work for them then. 😂

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Which brings up a probably unknowable, highly varied question. There seems to be a majority consensus a 16 gig RAM M4 MacMini would do fine for the new year years, perhaps even several. Experience teaches that eventually old computers get 'glitchy,' slow down, etc..., for a variety of reasons, with limited RAM often being a factor.

So 2 people with mainstream home user use cases buy these, one with 16 gig RAM and one with 24. 7 Years from now, the first guy notices when he was multiple app.s open and/or a bunch or browser windows open it bogs down, but he's pretty okay if he doesn't run much at ones. The 24 gig guy maybe doesn't have that problem, or not as much.

The 16 guy feels some pressure to upgrade; how much longer will the 24 guy keep his Mac before upgrading compared to the 16 guy.

There's no one answer and it's probably unknowable, but for people who like to keep their systems a long time, anybody care to venture some guesses? Trying to get a sense of what that $200 8-gig extra RAM upgrade buys you in real world use.

I just don’t think 8gb of ram is going to make that much of a difference in that case. Maybe 16 vs 32 I could see…16 to 24? Meh. And by then the base might be 128gb and 24gb is just as silly as 16gb?

 

[drrich2]

And by then the base might be 128gb

Not with Apple... 😁

As the theluggage's comment from earlier:

Except, Apple stuck at 8GB RAM base on the Mini from 2018 to 2024, so unless they do more to keep up in the future, you're gonna have the same "do I need more than 16GB" dilemma when you "upgrade" 4-6 years from now...

If history is a teacher, and Apple Intelligence doesn't create high additional RAM demand, in 7 years the base will likely be in the 24-32 gig range (and with Apple, it could even be 16, but let's hope not).

I just don’t think 8gb of ram is going to make that much of a difference in that case. Maybe 16 vs 32 I could see…16 to 24? Meh.

That may be. Got a feeling we might be finding out in 7 years...

 

[dubiousgif]

Do you mean it wasn't signed out of previous Apple ID?
When things are that cheap it's usually a red flag lol.

The person who replied to you is correct. It booted up to the initial setup, no activation screen, which I proceeded through without connecting to the internet. Later when I connected to the internet I got a screen saying “Remote Management This Mac is owned by:” followed by an organization name. It had the options “Enroll” or “Not now”. “Not now” isn’t normally an option but the seller implemented an MDM bypass. In fact, without the bypass the initial setup requires internet and the Remote Management screen comes up then.

Very true. The listing was pretty vague so I figured it could be someone who just didn’t realize the value. They didn’t mention M4, M4 Pro, or the number of cores and incorrectly stated 24GB memory 512GB storage. No mention of Ethernet speed. It did state the model number of the M4 Pro though.

I think this is what they meant...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/any-way-to-wipe-corporate-mdm-rights-from-my-computer.2308871/

Bingo

Maybe you can ask them and work for them then. 😂

😆

On the Remote Management screen there was a link to “Learn more about remote management” which presented me with the organization’s contact info.

I called the number explaining the situation and was told the Mac was likely stolen and the best option was to return it to the seller but they’d forward the serial number to the admin to see if maybe it accidentally hadn’t been released from MDM. Also gave them the seller’s information.

Held on to it as long as I could and never heard back so I returned it. There are some details I left out but that’s the gist of it.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Not with Apple... 😁

Fair point. 🤭

 

[Biro]

I wonder if the OP ultimately made a decision.

 

[Ishimura]

I wonder what the OP ultimately made a decision.

No decision was made, so Apple lost a sale.

Their insistence on making the upgrades not just...'premium' but an actually insane and insulting level of price-gouging leads to situations like this where somebody really wants to buy their product but doesn't.

 

[Biro]

No decision was made, so Apple lost a sale.

Their insistence on making the upgrades not just...'premium' but an actually insane and insulting level of price-gouging leads to situations like this where somebody really wants to buy their product but doesn't.

I’m not surprised. The old saying goes “the lack of a decision is a decision in itself.” It’s clear that you were not happy with the options before you and thus said “no” to all of them. Perhaps check Apple’s refurbished site? Also, check out this site for sales:

Expercom - Apple Premier Partner

Great prices on Mac, iPad, iPhone, and Apple Watch. Also a local Apple Authorized Service Provider serving Salt Lake City and Logan, Utah

expercom.com

Or will you look outside of the Apple ecosystem? I’ve tried to do that a number of times and found I simply won’t do Windows anymore.

 

[Ishimura]

I’m not surprised. The old saying goes “the lack of a decision is a decision in itself.” It’s clear that you were not happy with the options before you and thus said “no” to all of them. Perhaps check Apple’s refurbished site? Also, check out this site for sales:

Expercom - Apple Premier Partner

Great prices on Mac, iPad, iPhone, and Apple Watch. Also a local Apple Authorized Service Provider serving Salt Lake City and Logan, Utah

expercom.com

Or will you look outside of the Apple ecosystem? I’ve tried to do that a number of times and found I simply won’t do Windows anymore.

I really want to try Mac.

I'll just have to wait for prices to come down more, then at least the absolute hit will be lessened. If I do that, I'll still be getting ripped-off in relative terms, because of course the base models will still be relatively cheaper.

The whole situation is absurd, though. I should already be using an M4 Mac Mini that I bought months ago and Apple could have banked that revenue. Even if Apple slashed the cost of upgrades by half, they would still be raking in huge profit margins on them.

It would still be ridiculous to pay £50-100 (as opposed to £200) for 8GB more RAM, but I and many others would be much more likely to swallow it.

But Apple's insistence on not just charging 2x market rates but 4x or more (whatever it precisely is) is what makes you hesitate and feel like you're signing up to get ripped off by one of the most valuable companies in the history of the world.

It's so customer hostile, it's crazy.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Basically, OP is simply one of the many who have complained about Apple's high prices, just fixating on various different aspects of pricing:
• "Base RAM too low" is really I want more RAM for the same price, which is really just a whine about Apple's high pricing. The new 16 GB minimum will simply push price complainers to whining about other pricing aspects.
• "Adding RAM is too expensive" is really I want RAM for less cost, which is really just a whine about Apple's high pricing.
• "Adding SSD capacity is too expensive" is really I want bigger SSDs for less cost, which is really just a whine about Apple's high pricing.
• "I can buy a Win box for 19.95..." is really I want Macs to cost less, which is really just a whine about Apple's high pricing.

As someone who buys maximum available RAM I also feel maximum price pain, so I too have whined that "adding RAM is too expensive," which is really just a whine about Apple's high pricing. All any of us, including me, are really doing is uselessly complaining about high prices. How Apple goes about configuring its high prices involves cost/pricing analyses that we have no clue regarding. <sigh>

 

[Ishimura]

Basically, OP is simply one of the many who have complained about Apple's high prices, just fixating on various different aspects of pricing:
• "Base RAM too low" is really I want more RAM for the same price, which is really just a whine about Apple's high pricing. The new 16 GB minimum will simply push price complainers to whining about other pricing aspects.
• "Adding RAM is too expensive" is really I want RAM for less cost, which is really just a whine about Apple's high pricing.
• "Adding SSD capacity is too expensive" is really I want bigger SSDs for less cost, which is really just a whine about Apple's high pricing.
• "I can buy a Win box for 19.95..." is really I want Macs to cost less, which is really just a whine about Apple's high pricing.

As someone who buys maximum available RAM I also feel maximum price pain, so I too have whined that "adding RAM is too expensive," which is really just a whine about Apple's high pricing. All any of us, including me, are really doing is uselessly complaining about high prices. How Apple goes about configuring its high prices involves cost/pricing analyses that we have no clue regarding. <sigh>

Thanks for taking the time to make this truly incredible contribution. You've really brought so much to the discussion.

I made the thread to earnestly seek advice on the RAM point, as I was really struggling with it.

It is remarkably how bizarrely hostile and affronted some of you are by voicing criticisms of Apple's utterly ridiculous upgrade charges as part of that.

Also I'm not sure why that you think that Apple charging so much for minor upgrades is the subject of some deep and complex cost/pricing analysis rather than them simply recognising that have their consumers over a barrel and deciding to 20x the profit margins on every unit. Simply because they can.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Thanks for taking the time to make this truly incredible contribution. You've really brought so much to the discussion.

I made the thread to earnestly seek advice on the RAM point, as I was really struggling with it.

It is remarkably how bizarrely hostile and affronted some of you are by voicing criticisms of Apple's utterly ridiculous upgrade charges as part of that.

Sorry, no hostility was/is intended. I too suffer the pain of trying to figure out how to configure Apple's pricey Mac hardware. After buying many Macs I have done it a lot now, so perhaps I am just inured to the pain of the process and a bit cynical.

Basically I just wait until I am forced to upgrade, buy maximum available RAM and as little internal SSD as my usage allows, adding much cheaper external SSD capacity as needed. The cost is what it is.

Purchasing the maximum pricey RAM A) makes every day of the life cycle a smoother computing experience and B) extends the life cycle. YMMV; some save money short term by choosing adequate RAM and shorter life cycles over ideal RAM and longer life cycles. Each year RAM demands by OS/apps always increase.

Also I have in the past paid $400 for a couple of MB of third-party RAM for a Mac, so perhaps $800 for +64 GB of RAM from Apple feels less offensive to me than it does to some others.

P.S. Reading the various different way folks complain about Apple's high pricing does not make me "start feeling sweaty and nervous and furious." I recognize the research/design/engineering required for top tech products and the high pricing as necessary to maintain such product lines. You are of course free to disagree.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Back to your original question about buying a Mac mini. I still consider the base Mac mini with its 16 GB RAM (currently US$580 at Costco) a great Mac computing value; and check to see what Costco's current return policy is, you might get a 90 day trial period. If you are considering a Mac mini, IMO just go buy one.

Above the base Mac mini costs skyrocket (+US$390 at Costco to add 8 GB RAM and go to 512 GB SSD, IMO not a value purchase). IMO buy the base Mac mini or go way up to a Studio if you need more computing competence.

Just my $0.02.

 

[McScooby]

What you’re missing with this response is that many people are trying to spec their machine appropriately so as to avoid ever running into any wobbles in real-world performance.

If somebody is asking about this, they’re asking how they avoid getting into a situation where their Mac becomes slower and less responsive.

What you're missing is 16GB is an excellent value proposition for what you get in the whole package.

Macs are expensive, have always been expensive and that's unlikely to change anytime soon, unless the rumour is correct and a MacBook launches with an iPhone chip, but maybe saves what £100 off base with probably the same upgrade structure?

The M4 mini is the cheapest price it's ever been, for alternates to recommended retail from Apple look to education price (£499), Amazon (£529) Costco (£539) or maybe wait til Prime Day, although unlikely to go cheaper.

Upgrades have always been around £200 per upgrade, when it was 8GB then 16GB was £200 & same for drive upgrades.

Costco have the 24GB and 512GB at £894 or even stretch to a M2 Studio with 32GB Ram 1TB at £1200.

What you've alluded to is what you feel as a consumer, but what is the comparison - it's not PC's as they won't give you MacOS.

& I'm not sure where you're getting this slow down etc from this isn't windows. That's unlikely to occur in the short term & moreso probably after the Mac goes vintage, so what 8 years or so?

Apple hasn't lost a sale, if they're going to get it, you the consumer who feels hard done by will end up paying a higher price at a later stage, while - as I said before - others enjoy their purchase.

M2 with 8GB is still ticking along nicely.

Remind me again, what did you plan to use 'yours' for?