Slow Boot Up Mac 5,1

[QuickstartBridg]

Thinking that the slow boot up of my wife's 5,1 (mountain lion) was due to a slowing HD, I installed a Samsung 840 evo 1TB containing the cloned hd contents on an Apricorn Solo X2 inserted into a 16X PCIe slot. This increased the read/write speed of applications X4 (Blackmagic) and opening of applications is snappy. However, the boot up time is actually slower, going from 110 seconds (hd) to 140 seconds (ssd) to desktop.

I now assume the slow boot time is due to a software issue rather than a hardware issue but I have no idea how to troubleshoot the problem. I assume trying to restore from the Time Capsule backup would only duplicate a possible software problem if that was the issue.

Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot the boot time problem?

Thanks,
Brian

 

[thefredelement]

Thinking that the slow boot up of my wife's 5,1 (mountain lion) was due to a slowing HD, I installed a Samsung 840 eve 1TB containing the cloned hd contents on an Apricorn Solo X2 inserted into a 16X PCIe slot. This increased the read/write speed of applications X4 (Blackmagic) and opening of applications is snappy. However, the boot up time is actually slower, going from 110 seconds (hd) to 140 seconds (sad) to desktop.

I now assume the slow boot time is due to a software issue rather than a hardware issue but I have no idea how to troubleshoot the problem. I assume trying to restore from the Time Capsule backup would only duplicate a possible software problem if that was the issue.

Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot the boot time problem?

Thanks,
Brian

Wiping out the caches can sometimes help with this

/Library/Caches
~/Library/Caches

 

[DeltaMac]

Is your SSD set as the startup volume (in System Preferences/Startup Disk pref pane)?

 

[QuickstartBridg]

Wiping out the caches can sometimes help with this

/Library/Caches
~/Library/Caches

I'll give it a try tomorrow. Thanks.

Is your SSD set as the startup volume (in System Preferences/Startup Disk pref pane)?

Yes. Not an issue. Thanks.

 

[h9826790]

If it takes a long time (about 30s) to get the grey screen from you push the bottom, a SMC /PRAM reset may help.

Also, you may start in safe mode once (Press and hold shift to boot), and then reboot into normal mode. This may also help.

 

[crjackson2134]

Also I see that you are using an SSD. If you have kext signing disabled for Trim support (Trim Enabler), be sure to reverse that before doing a PRAM reset, otherwise you'll have more problems.

 

[h9826790]

More info will help to diagnosis the problem.

e.g. long wait for the boot screen. Or the loading bar move very slowly in Yosemite. etc.

 

[nigelbb]

Booting does take longer when you have the SSD in a Apricorn Solo Velocity X2 vs. having the SSD in a drive sled. I have always assumed that the Mac is taking longer over hardware polling & initialisation. Is it really a big deal? I only ever cold boot my Mac Pro once in a blue moon.

 

[Gav Mack]

140 seconds with an SSD even in an X2 is bloody ages.

Make sure trim is off if on 10.10, reset pram/smc, boot to recovery HD and repair disk permissions in Disk utility. Set startup disk after to the SDD and see if thats quicker.

 

[QuickstartBridg]

Wiping out the caches can sometimes help with this

/Library/Caches
~/Library/Caches

Thanks. I tried this and it had no effect on boot time. Still about 140 seconds.

If it takes a long time (about 30s) to get the grey screen from you push the bottom, a SMC /PRAM reset may help.

Tried that previously. No help.

Also, you may start in safe mode once (Press and hold shift to boot), and then reboot into normal mode. This may also help.

Thanks. Had no helpful effect. Boot time 150 seconds.

 

[QuickstartBridg]

Booting does take longer when you have the SSD in a Apricorn Solo Velocity X2 vs. having the SSD in a drive sled. I have always assumed that the Mac is taking longer over hardware polling & initialisation. Is it really a big deal? I only ever cold boot my Mac Pro once in a blue moon.

Flowrider has same hardware and claims a 32 second boot up. The slow boot up is not a huge deal but it would be nice to get the same performance effects and one of the reasons I upgraded the startup drive to the SSD in the first place. We shut down every night in case of electrical malfunction in the home/environment. Personal philosophy.

140 seconds with an SSD even in an X2 is bloody ages.

Make sure trim is off if on 10.10, reset pram/smc, boot to recovery HD and repair disk permissions in Disk utility. Set startup disk after to the SDD and see if thats quicker.

Using Mountain Lion on this computer. Have internal HD to make the startup disk. Will do that when wife gets off her computer again and then repair disk permissions on SSD. Pretty sure I have tried this before but I'll post the results soon.

 

[QuickstartBridg]

turning off TRIM

Gav Mack

I have TRIM enabled on the SSD using Chameleon. The Enable button on the Chameleon dashboard does not allow me to turn it off by moving the button to the left. Is it necessary to disable TRIM before repairing permissions?

Is there any problem using the recent Samsung firmware update after having enabled TRIM with Chameleon?

 

[h9826790]

Is it necessary to disable TRIM before repairing permissions?

Is there any problem using the recent Samsung firmware update after having enabled TRIM with Chameleon?

1) No, it's only a recommendation for "reset PRAM under Yosemite", since it will make the OSX non-bootable until some terminal fix. For ML, you can basically keep it enabled forever.

2) No, should not be a problem at all.

Anyway, which part takes the long time? The spin wheel? How many turns?

 

[reco2011]

Have you started the system in Verbose Mode?

 

[QuickstartBridg]

Anyway, which part takes the long time? The spin wheel? How many turns?

About 30 sec to the Apple logo. Then 90 sec to the desktop.

Have you started the system in Verbose Mode?

Once booted into verbose mode with command-V, what would I look for within the text?

 

[reco2011]

Once booted into verbose mode with command-V, what would I look for within the text?

Anything that looks as if it may be taking longer to start than you think it should. Unfortunately I can't be more specific than that. If I could then I'd just give you the answer as I'd know it

 

[Gav Mack]

No need for trim troubleshooting if you are on ml.

Verbose mode should show you where something is hanging. Normally I get clients to video it so they can pause at the parts where delays are an issue.

I presume that the 840evo is new? Firmware version? Listed in system information under revision.

Other option if you have your old hd handy is to do a fresh install of ml on the SSD, have the old hd in a sled and use migration assistant to import back onto the SSD. Sometimes that doesn't work and and I just drag the contents of the user profile on the old disk onto the new one on the SSD.

 

[QuickstartBridg]

Originally Posted by h9826790 View Post
Anyway, which part takes the long time? The spin wheel? How many turns?

Some better boot times:
Before repair permissions
logo - 27 seconds
spinner - 32
desktop - 160
After repair permissions
logo - 26
spinner - 32
desktop - 153
Not a significant difference

boot to recovery HD and repair disk permissions in Disk utility. Set startup disk after to the SDD and see if thats quicker.

When used HD to boot, repair permissions button for SSD was not enabled. Did a repair disk of SSD at this time. Reviewed output. The only anomaly was:
Warning: SUID file “System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent” has been modified and will not be repaired."

Then changed boot drive to SSD. On restart, repair permissions button was enabled and I performed a permissions repair. The output said found nothing to repair.

Have you started the system in Verbose Mode?

Rebooted in Verbose mode. Interesting to see the output but didn't stay around very long and no apparent way to cut and paste. Possible anomalies seen were:
ETH8 cannot assert wake... (couldn't get complete statement in time)
ETH1 cannot assert wake...
TThread support ABORTS when sync kernel primitives misused
writing these down fast and may have misspellings and incomplete phrase. No other anomalies apparent to my untrained eyes.

Is any of this data helpful? What next?

 

[QuickstartBridg]

I presume that the 840evo is new? Firmware version? Listed in system information under revision.

Other option if you have your old hd handy is to do a fresh install of ml on the SSD, have the old hd in a sled and use migration assistant to import back onto the SSD. Sometimes that doesn't work and and I just drag the contents of the user profile on the old disk onto the new one on the SSD.

Yes, the SSD is new - about 3 weeks old with minimal use. Here are three system info images, from a previous thread that dwindled from forum apathy, that you may find useful. The firmware revision is EXT0BB6Q.

https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=505020&d=1413464676
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=505169&d=1413492075
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=505169&d=1413492075

I did the migration assistant thingy when I installed Yosemite from the APP Store on an external disk to test it on my 6,1 Mac Pro. The old HD for the 5,1 is in a sled in an internal bay on the 5,1 already. I did a disk utility clone to restore the old HD to the SSD. So, it has all the same system and other software and files on it. There is a small amount of new data on the SSD that is not on the old HD related to the activity since installing the SSD that might be difficult to recover if the SSD was wiped and ML reinstalled and Migration Assistant reused to move the HD data to the SSD again.

As an aside, where would I find the fresh Mountain Lion copy to reinstall on the wiped SSD?

 

[Gav Mack]

Yes, the SSD is new - about 3 weeks old with minimal use. Here are three system info images, from a previous thread that dwindled from forum apathy, that you may find useful. The firmware revision is EXT0BB6Q.

https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=505020&d=1413464676
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=505169&d=1413492075
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=505169&d=1413492075

I did the migration assistant thingy when I installed Yosemite from the APP Store on an external disk to test it on my 6,1 Mac Pro. The old HD for the 5,1 is in a sled in an internal bay on the 5,1 already. I did a disk utility clone to restore the old HD to the SSD. So, it has all the same system and other software and files on it. There is a small amount of new data on the SSD that is not on the old HD related to the activity since installing the SSD that might be difficult to recover if the SSD was wiped and ML reinstalled and Migration Assistant reused to move the HD data to the SSD again.

As an aside, where would I find the fresh Mountain Lion copy to reinstall on the wiped SSD?

I have a bit of work here right now to answer all of that but from purchased in the App Store you should be able to download 10.8 and use diskmakerx to make a usb bootable ml stick.

Then see if the drive is still slow with a fresh install in just the sled on its own with no x2 fitted, then again with the x2 empty and then with the 840 in the x2

 

[reco2011]

Rebooted in Verbose mode. Interesting to see the output but didn't stay around very long and no apparent way to cut and paste. Possible anomalies seen were:
ETH8 cannot assert wake... (couldn't get complete statement in time)
ETH1 cannot assert wake...
TThread support ABORTS when sync kernel primitives misused
writing these down fast and may have misspellings and incomplete phrase. No other anomalies apparent to my untrained eyes.

Is any of this data helpful? What next?

Unfortunately it's not helpful to me. I thought maybe you'd see something taking a little bit of time to load and that may be the cause of your performance drop. It sounds as if nothing look to take excessively long.

 

[QuickstartBridg]

Unfortunately it's not helpful to me. I thought maybe you'd see something taking a little bit of time to load and that may be the cause of your performance drop. It sounds as if nothing look to take excessively long.

Thanks for looking. I googled the "ETH8 cannot assert wake phrase" and found one result that referred to a problem of double booting related to an unupdated copy of Parallels 7 that resolved when the Parallels automatically updated. There is an old copy of Parallels 7 on my 5,1 that was present at the time the SSD was installed. I did an update check from the Parallels menu and it found no newer update but that may be because it is an old version no longer supported by Parallels. That may all be a red herring but it might ring somebody's bell.

I have a bit of work here right now to answer all of that but from purchased in the App Store you should be able to download 10.8 and use diskmakerx to make a usb bootable ml stick.

Then see if the drive is still slow with a fresh install in just the sled on its own with no x2 fitted, then again with the x2 empty and then with the 840 in the x2

Yes, the ML is downloadable from my wife's App Store Purchases. Here is an operational question. There is no difference in the boot times between the original, bootable, HD which is currently installed in an internal bay and the new SSD in the PCIe slot. Instead of erasing the SSD and starting all over again in the installation of ML and migrating the HD, can I make another partition (a procedure whose consequences I am not familiar with since I haven't done it previously) on the HD, install the ML on that and do a timed test boot from that partition with just ML? Then try it again after migrating the data from the SSD to the partition. That way I can maintain the SSD in its current state which is useable but not at the boot performance I would like. Would this procedure identify the slow boot time as a software problem such as a corrupted file or incompatibility?

Thanks for your help?

 

[Gav Mack]

Thanks for looking. I googled the "ETH8 cannot assert wake phrase" and found one result that referred to a problem of double booting related to an unupdated copy of Parallels 7 that resolved when the Parallels automatically updated. There is an old copy of Parallels 7 on my 5,1 that was present at the time the SSD was installed. I did an update check from the Parallels menu and it found no newer update but that may be because it is an old version no longer supported by Parallels. That may all be a red herring but it might ring somebody's bell.



Yes, the ML is downloadable from my wife's App Store Purchases. Here is an operational question. There is no difference in the boot times between the original, bootable, HD which is currently installed in an internal bay and the new SSD in the PCIe slot. Instead of erasing the SSD and starting all over again in the installation of ML and migrating the HD, can I make another partition (a procedure whose consequences I am not familiar with since I haven't done it previously) on the HD, install the ML on that and do a timed test boot from that partition with just ML? Then try it again after migrating the data from the SSD to the partition. That way I can maintain the SSD in its current state which is useable but not at the boot performance I would like. Would this procedure identify the slow boot time as a software problem such as a corrupted file or incompatibility?

Thanks for your help?

Firstly you need to start process of eliminations fella. Download ML and make the stick. Once down power off the Mac lean it with the access panel up pull sled 1 out with your HDD inside (along with any other drives inthe sleds) and plug the 840 directly into the sata plug where the sled connector goes in. It should stay in fine even when put upright again as long as you dont give it a bang, though you can always use a loose bit of tape to support it to the top of the panel where the sled fits. Unplug all unnecessary USB devices. Power up, hold option to boot from USB, erase the entire volume using Disk utility off the stick and install ML on the SSD clean and see what it boots like after with just the 840 plugged in. If it's quick then power down and install the Solo X2 empty, then another cycle with the 840 in the X2. Then repeat the cycles putting your populated sleds back in one at a time.

Once you know the X2 and the SSD and disks in the sleds aren't the problem its no longer a hardware issue, but your OS X boot volume itself from your original HDD that's causing the slow boot. I have yet to see any X2+SSD not be much, much faster than a single spinning disk booting in overall times. Though the initial bit is slower it spanks the spinner after the Apple logo appears.

Been a busy day here in rainy London will be back to have a peep how you've got on mañana!

 

[QuickstartBridg]

With all due respect to your proven knowledge and skills

Firstly you need to start process of eliminations fella. Download ML and make the stick. Once down power off the Mac lean it with the access panel up pull sled 1 out with your HDD inside (along with any other drives inthe sleds) and plug the 840 directly into the sata plug where the sled connector goes in. Unplug all unnecessary USB devices. Power up, hold option to boot from USB, erase the entire volume using Disk utility off the stick and install ML on the SSD clean and see what it boots like after with just the 840 plugged in. If it's quick then power down and install the Solo X2 empty, then another cycle with the 840 in the X2. Then repeat the cycles putting your populated sleds back in one at a time.

Once you know the X2 and the SSD and disks in the sleds aren't the problem its no longer a hardware issue, but your OS X boot volume itself from your original HDD that's causing the slow boot. I have yet to see any X2+SSD not be much, much faster than a single spinning disk booting in overall times. Though the initial bit is slower it spanks the spinner after the Apple logo appears.

Been a busy day here in rainy London will be back to have a peep how you've got on mañana!

It seemed to me your suggestion of doing a clean install of ML on the SSD was more destructive of the current workable state of the SSD than I wanted to attempt at this time. I researched my last proposal of partitioning the HD and doing a fresh install of Mountain Lion on that partition and testing the boot time. I felt that was not destructive and more easily reversible. So I proceeded with that plan.

While booting from the SSD, I created a 250GB partition on the 1TB HD using Disk Utility. I downloaded a fresh copy of the ML Installer from the App Store/Purchases to the SSD. I installed the fresh copy of ML in the new partition and restarted after the setup procedure was completed.

Here is the previous timings data in Reply #18 when booting from the SSD:
Before repair permissions
logo - 27 seconds
spinner - 32
desktop - 160
After repair permissions
logo - 26
spinner - 32
desktop - 153
Not a significant difference

Here is the timings data for boot up from the new partition on the HD containing only ML:
logo - 10 seconds
spinner - 17
desktop - 44
A significant improvement, especially when compared to the boot time for the SSD.

My conclusion is that this is a software problem - either corruption of a system file or a software incompatibility. - and not a hardware problem. Do you agree that the data supports that conclusion?

I would like assistance in arriving at a reasonable course of action to isolate the software problem. My preliminary plan is to use migration assistant (which I believe does not move the system files, but not sure) to move all the current data on the SSD to this fresh partition. I will then test a restart and compare the boot time to the data above. If it is unchanged, then it was a system file corruption. If it is back to the prolonged boot times of the unpartitioned HD, then it was a software compatibility with a non-system file. Do you agree? Then I would REALLY need assistance in trying to isolate which software it was.

On second thought, would it be better not to migrate applications for the first boot test which might avoid installing some conflicting application files into the system file area? Then, if no slow down occurred again, finally migrate the application files?

Thanks for all your time and input.

 

[h9826790]

IMO, you better migrate every set of data one by one.

e.g. one profile at a time, only migrate the applications after all profiles recovered and boot time is normal.