Slow down on switching from iPhone to Google Nexus


mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
It's amusing that, when an iPhone has connection issues, even when sitting next to another AT&T 3G phone that works fine, AT&T continually gets blamed, and Apple skates clear, and when the same thing happens on T-Mobile's network with the Nexus, a lot of the articles go straight to attributing to network overload in contravention of any apparent logic.

So apparently, the extra $4 in cost for the iPhone parts doesn't help... wonder if there's some common design factor which explains why these two phones have the problems? Interestingly, in one article I read about the Nexus problems, the comparison phone was a G1 (which was running in 3G, next to the Nex', just fine) -- another Android! :eek:
 

darngooddesign

macrumors G3
Jul 4, 2007
9,310
210
Atlanta, GA
It's amusing that, when an iPhone has connection issues, even when sitting next to another AT&T 3G phone that works fine, AT&T continually gets blamed, and Apple skates clear, and when the same thing happens on T-Mobile's network with the Nexus, a lot of the articles go straight to attributing to network overload in contravention of any apparent logic.
What you are missing is that iPhones on other networks do not have connection issues. Therefore the blame lies with ATT, not Apple.

PS> There aren't enough N1s in circulation so its premature to call it network overload.

PPS> Connection issues =/= network overload.
 

QCassidy352

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darngooddesign said:
It's amusing that, when an iPhone has connection issues, even when sitting next to another AT&T 3G phone that works fine, AT&T continually gets blamed, and Apple skates clear, and when the same thing happens on T-Mobile's network with the Nexus, a lot of the articles go straight to attributing to network overload in contravention of any apparent logic.
What you are missing is that iPhones on other networks do not have connection issues. Therefore the blame lies with ATT, not Apple.

PS> There aren't enough N1s in circulation so its premature to call it network overload.

PPS> Connection issues =/= network overload.
Well, that's the thing - iPhones on other networks don't have problems, but neither do other AT&T 3G phones. (fwiw, many AT&T iPhones have no problems - like mine) so it's the interplay between the iPhone and at&t's network? I know that sounds crazy, but I don't know how you blame just one or the other in light of the above facts.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
What you are missing is that iPhones on other networks do not have connection issues.
In my defense, I think I am missing it, at least in part, because it is not true.

But don't get me wrong -- I understand that not everyone has problems. My iPhone 3GS treats me about as well as any other mobile I've ever had. OTOH, while it is not the first time I've had data services (by a long shot), it is the first time I've had 3G.
 

chris975d

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Well, that's the thing - iPhones on other networks don't have problems, but neither do other AT&T 3G phones. (fwiw, many AT&T iPhones have no problems - like mine) so it's the interplay between the iPhone and at&t's network? I know that sounds crazy, but I don't know how you blame just one or the other in light of the above facts.
Completely off topic in regard to the Nexus One, but...
This is something that I'm really noticing a lot here in the past 2 months as well. I've had an each version of the iPhone on At&t, and I always chalked my cal drops, sent texts that the person never received, and slow to connect to the network problems on the network itself, not the iPhone's radio. But, I've been using a Blackberry Bold 9700 since the day it was released, and I haven't had one single dropped call (no exaggeration), and it connects to the data network much faster than my 3G or 3GS. Yet, as soon as I put my SIM back into either iPhone, the problems arise again.
Another thing I notice with the 9700 versus the iPhone is how slowly text messages are sent. I've experimented with this at work, with an employees phone (non-iPhone, on AT&T also) side by side with my SIM in the blackberry, then my SIM in the iPhone. Sending the a message from the Blackberry to my employee's phone was near instantaneous, never taking longer than 5 seconds to show up on his phone. Sending the same message from my 3GS to his phone consistantly took longer, averaging over 20 seconds, and taking at one point over a minute. I know even 20 seconds isn't a huge deal, but with both phones on the same network, and in this case on the same tower, is there an issue with the way the iPhone's radio interacts with AT&T's network? Maybe the problem that people report is more to do with the iPhone itself, rather than the network? I'm like this poster, I don't understand why the iPhone would have the problems it has, yet another data intensive 3G phone (like my Blackberry in this instance) wouldn't have any of the same problems in the exact same area.
 

alent1234

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2009
5,654
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What you are missing is that iPhones on other networks do not have connection issues. Therefore the blame lies with ATT, not Apple.

PS> There aren't enough N1s in circulation so its premature to call it network overload.

PPS> Connection issues =/= network overload.
on the android central forums people say that poor 3G performance has been an issue with HTC phones for a long time and even happened on Verizon. not just t-mo.

if i had to guess, it's probably antenna placement or something in the software
 

efp1

macrumors 6502
Oct 3, 2008
337
22
UK
In my defense, I think I am missing it, at least in part, because it is not true.

But don't get me wrong -- I understand that not everyone has problems. My iPhone 3GS treats me about as well as any other mobile I've ever had. OTOH, while it is not the first time I've had data services (by a long shot), it is the first time I've had 3G.
I have the iPhone 3G on Movistar (Spain's official carrier). I've never had a dropped call for nearly two years and my internet speed is almost always over 2mbps. Never really had problems with the carrier. I live in Barcelona where there's a high concentration of people. Most mobile phones here are 3G enabled, have been for years now.

I think it's more about the carrier than the iPhone. If there are tons of people using data from the same tower, then your phone is bound to drop calls, no matter what brand/model.
 

bossxii

macrumors 68000
Nov 9, 2008
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Kansas City
While I don't doubt people have issues, I have own'd all three iPhones since they came out in 2007 and have yet to have a dropped call, missed txt or any VM issues. My wife took over my 1st gen iPhone as I upgraded to the 3G and we have both been very happy with it's service.

Sure I would like faster 3g/4g speed from AT&T but as for coverage here in the midwest, never an issue.

Blame it on whoever you like, clearly from the forums there is an issue with one of the two (AT&T and/or iPhone). I have been with AT&T/Cingular now for 12 years and imo service has been better for us since AT&T took over Cingular.

So iPhone or AT&T issue's maybe prevalent in your area's but not from what I've experienced in the past 2.5 years on the various iPhone's I've used.
 

co.ag.2005

macrumors 68020
Jun 17, 2009
2,266
1,660
Fort Worth, TX
While I don't doubt people have issues, I have own'd all three iPhones since they came out in 2007 and have yet to have a dropped call, missed txt or any VM issues. My wife took over my 1st gen iPhone as I upgraded to the 3G and we have both been very happy with it's service.

Sure I would like faster 3g/4g speed from AT&T but as for coverage here in the midwest, never an issue.

Blame it on whoever you like, clearly from the forums there is an issue with one of the two (AT&T and/or iPhone). I have been with AT&T/Cingular now for 12 years and imo service has been better for us since AT&T took over Cingular.

So iPhone or AT&T issue's maybe prevalent in your area's but not from what I've experienced in the past 2.5 years on the various iPhone's I've used.
+1 for me in CO and when I lived in TX. sure, I had a few problems in portions of Denver near the foothills where the higher terrain would block the cell signal. But AT&T were quick to put in new towers to address the issues. When I bought my house, I had 2-3 bars of EDGE (and my realtor with VZW) had no service to 1 bar. A few months after living in the house, AT&T installed a new tower near my house and now I have 5 bars of 3G... and that's in a mountain town with my house surrounded by mountains and huge pine trees.

Cingular/AT&T have been great for me. However, everyones mileage may vary. Go with the carrier that serves your location the best!
 

schwell

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 21, 2009
198
0
If you try to canceling service early you will pay dearly:

"The costs of canceling a T-Mobile Nexus One contract within the first four months after purchase, then, are as follows:

$179 USD, the purchase price of the device.
$200 USD, the early-termination fee T-Mobile assesses for contracts canceled with more than 180 days remaining on term
$350 USD, Google’s equipment recovery fee
Grand total: USD $729."

source: http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100112/nexus-one-etf/
 

RoninXI

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2006
141
0
Vermilion, Ohio
It can't be any worse than AT&T

In my area, northern OH, AT&T is the second worst carrier (alltel is first) I wanted an iPhone so bad I switched any way. 90% of my calls are dropped in my home, the rest are so staticy I have to use a regular phone. This has two problems, 1: this is for work and is unprofessional, 2: I am making a lot of long distance calls that should be free because I will be using minutes I have any way, it adds up. I have gotten VM and SMS 45min to an hour late when it said I had 1 bar the whole time. Going outside does not help much either.

I am going to have to consider Nexus One when it comes to Verizon (the number one carrier in the area). Hopefully Google gets their s??? straight by then. I know two people with droids one local and one in AZ, they both love their phones, hopefully with some fixes N1 will be the same quality.
 

QCassidy352

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schwell said:
If you try to canceling service early you will pay dearly:

"The costs of canceling a T-Mobile Nexus One contract within the first four months after purchase, then, are as follows:

$179 USD, the purchase price of the device.
$200 USD, the early-termination fee T-Mobile assesses for contracts canceled with more than 180 days remaining on term
$350 USD, Google’s equipment recovery fee
Grand total: USD $729."

source: http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100112/nexus-one-etf/
Why would you have to pay anything based on the purchase price of the device? Unless you mean that's what you already paid, whether you drop the service or not.
 

ToroidalZeus

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2009
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Why would you have to pay anything based on the purchase price of the device? Unless you mean that's what you already paid, whether you drop the service or not.
Do you understand how contracts work? Legally that is. Lets say I hire someone to do something for 100 dollars. Now i break my contract with him and he does no work. He is still legally entitled to recoup his damaged; the 100 dollars in this case.

For whatever reason cell phones in the USA have not followed this legal model instead we have had a ETF. Its really sad seeing google basically downgrade our cell phone system by imposing this system.

P.S. A lot of other countries have already had this policy in place for years. Covering both Cell Phones and Plans.
 

djltoronto

macrumors member
Dec 22, 2009
66
0
If you try to canceling service early you will pay dearly:

"The costs of canceling a T-Mobile Nexus One contract within the first four months after purchase, then, are as follows:

$179 USD, the purchase price of the device.
$200 USD, the early-termination fee T-Mobile assesses for contracts canceled with more than 180 days remaining on term
$350 USD, Google’s equipment recovery fee
Grand total: USD $729."

source: http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100112/nexus-one-etf/

what's wrong with that?

the device costs $529... if you break the contract, you owe them $200 early cancellation fee...


So the $729 is just an "all in " number.


After the $729 is paid and you have cancelled, you still own outright a $529 phone. The only mony lost is the $200 cancellation fee. Fairly standard and simple, isn't it?
 

ToroidalZeus

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2009
2,301
821
what's wrong with that?

Fairly standard and simple, isn't it?
That makes no sense. If Google/HTC want to charge you the 350 to make up the rest of the 529 you own... Then by that same token T-Mobile needs to charge you whatever they lost on your 2yr contract. So if you paid 100 a month service, you would owe them 2400 dollars not 200 dollars.
 

djltoronto

macrumors member
Dec 22, 2009
66
0
That makes no sense. If Google/HTC want to charge you the 350 to make up the rest of the 529 you own... Then by that same token T-Mobile needs to charge you whatever they lost on your 2yr contract. So if you paid 100 a month service, you would owe them 2400 dollars not 200 dollars.

BUT, T-mobile, in your scenario would have provided you with nothing...

With hardware... they are simply recouping the costs of the value of the hardware.


the $2400 you speak of isn;t a service that was ever actually provided. It didn't cost T-mobile anything.




If people think they can buy the phone at a subsidized price $179 and then immediately cancel, paying only $200 cancel fee - and then own outright a $529 device for a measly $379 --- that's crazy talk.

I would buy one myself right now just to play with (no contract - no cell service) for $379 if that was possible.
 

ToroidalZeus

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2009
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a service that was ever actually provided. It didn't cost T-mobile anything.
It makes no difference. You signed a contract and you broke it. They are legally entitled to what they have lost.

For whatever reason here in america this normal contract policy has not applied to cell phones or plans.
 

djltoronto

macrumors member
Dec 22, 2009
66
0
It makes no difference. You signed a contract and you broke it. They are legally entitled to what they have lost.

For whatever reason here in america this normal contract policy has not applied to cell phones or plans.
The early cancellation fee of $200 is part of the original contract as a term.

I see what your saying about it not being traditional, but it is in favour of the customer.

Also, specifically referring to the phrase "what they have lost" IMO they have lost nothing. The service they were going to provide to the customer will never be provided. The "goods" never exchange hands.

I guess it simply because the ECF $200 is a term of the contract - it becomes legal.
 

ToroidalZeus

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2009
2,301
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" IMO they have lost nothing. The service they were going to provide to the customer will never be provided. The "goods" never exchange hands.
Not quite they have lost the guarantee of your money for those 2yrs.

The early cancellation fee of $200 is part of the original contract as a term.

I see what your saying about it not being traditional, but it is in favour of the customer.
Exactly we have had a really good system in the sense since we "only" play a ~175 fee - 5 a month. Even 350 - 10 like verizon has it is better then what it should be. Essentially we have a system where you pay the ETF for the phone subsidy and you walk away free without the service contrast penalty.

This move by google with you paying for "what you owe" is one step backwards into the terms of cell phone contracts. Because now t-mobile is getting 200 dollars in your service contract cancellation where before it was none.
 

djltoronto

macrumors member
Dec 22, 2009
66
0
This move by google with you paying for "what you owe" is one step backwards into the terms of cell phone contracts. Because now t-mobile is getting 200 dollars in your service contract cancellation where before it was none.
Before they were getting none? you mean people could just cancel with no penalties? What's the point of a contract term then?
 

ToroidalZeus

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2009
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Before they were getting none?
Before when you payed for the ETF it went toward the phone subsidy. Now that same ETF (200 in this case) is technically going to the a service cancelation penalty since you are paying that "extra" 350 on the google’s equipment recovery fee aka the phone subsidy.

you mean people could just cancel with no penalties? What's the point of a contract term then?
So you want to live in a world where if you break your 2 yr contrast you have to pay the difference on the phone subsidy and all the remaining months of your contract? Because thats what you are implying.
 

djltoronto

macrumors member
Dec 22, 2009
66
0
Before when you payed for the ETF it went toward the phone subsidy. Now that same ETF (200 in this case) is technically going to the a service cancelation penalty since you are paying that "extra" 350 on the google’s equipment recovery fee aka the phone subsidy.


So you want to live in a world where if you break your 2 yr contrast you have to pay the difference on the phone subsidy and all the remaining months of your contract? Because thats what you are implying.


I am implying that I am OK with paying $729 to cancel my nexus one.

If I agree'd to these terms at contract signing - then I am perfectly fine with them

I see it as totally reasonable to pay for both the $350 for the price I saved on the hardware, and the $200 cancellation fee for breaking my terms of the contract.



I guess what I'm saying is these fee's seem perfectly acceptable to me.

  • You can't expect to get a $529 phone for less than $529 by signing then breaking a contract
  • You also can't expect to be able to sign a 2 yr contract, and the decide to quit with no penalties - penalties are already stipulated as $200