SM951 slow speeds on 3,1 and 5,1 - two machines

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by kransbox, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. kransbox, Apr 7, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018

    kransbox macrumors newbie

    kransbox

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2018
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #1
    Greetings! I think I may have narrowed down my problem to the PCI-E to M.2 adapter card. But before I purchase another one I thought I'd see if I was missing something.

    I have two Mac Pros. One is 2008 and the other is a firmware flashed 2009. I've purchased two SM951 256gb M.2 AHCI drives (not nVME) and have used them both as boot drives for both machines.

    The GOOD:

    Both drives work (so the adapter has to work somewhat)

    The BAD:

    Regardless where I install the drive (Slot 2 or 3) I only get about 250mb write and 500/600 mb read. This is pitiful. I'm writing from my 2008 right now.

    The 2008 has EL Capitan and the 5,1 2009 has High Sierra.

    This is the PCI-E adapter that I am using: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N78XZCH/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza#customerReviews


    It stays it is compatible with my drive. I did the PRAM reset and I enabled trim in terminal. I'm really at a loss here and am pretty bummed since these are getting about 1/4 the speed they're supposed to.


    Any things to try before I buy another adapter to continue troubleshooting?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. hamishb macrumors member

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    Jun 14, 2002
    Location:
    Vic, Australia
    #2
    Link speed only 2.5 in slot 3. You should be getting 5.0.

    Sorry, no solution though.
     
  3. Squuiid macrumors 65816

    Squuiid

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    #3
    Just get one of these:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00MYCQP38/

    Or preferably one of these to avoid throttling due to overheating:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B018U79YQK/

    Both are known to work perfectly with your SSDs.
     
  4. splifingate macrumors 6502

    splifingate

    Joined:
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    Location:
    ATL
    #4
    I use the same controller with the a 512 SM951 m.2, and I get x4, 5.0 GT/s

    Mailiya_v1.jpeg

    Write speeds are oddly fsck'd as-of-late, but reads are 13xx+

    Regards, splifingate
     
  5. StrawberryX, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018

    StrawberryX macrumors member

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    #5
    I get around 700ish in my cMP 3.1.
    It boots.
    It should be faster but the 3.1 is not a good cMP for PCIe drives I've heard.
    I did downgrade the ram from 64gb to 48gb ... I wonder If I would upgrade the ram back to 64,
    I would get even slower speed ...
    In the 3.1, It's a bit of a waste I think, you could SATAII raid? or SATAIII through PCIe
    and the real world difference would be ...

    But It should "fly" in a 4.1 or 5.1. But I don't have those.
    I do have a NVME version through TB2 on a nMP ... 1300/900 ish
     
  6. Darmok N Jalad macrumors 65816

    Darmok N Jalad

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    #6
    Do you have TRIM enabled, and is it APFS or HFS+?
     
  7. StrawberryX, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018

    StrawberryX macrumors member

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    #7
    I used to have TRIM enabled in the 3.1.
    That has a SATA SSD and the PCIe SSD ( and also a spinner with the OS ).
    But I have swapped the SATA SSD to a docking station to restore other macs.
    When I put It back in, both SSD were "corrupt".
    I could restore the Sata SSD in disk U.
    But had to CCC the PCIe SSD.
    Now It al works, but haven't checked the TRIM status.

    It is something I wonder what happens if you swap drives between non TRIM "forced" or other way macs,
    and TRIM enabled ones.

    My nMP is not TRIM forced yet, I already had so many problems with High Sierra,
    everything is working now. I had 6 month of problems and testing with High Sierra
    and have to much work now to mess with my macs.

    We use a nMP, cMP 3.1 ( El Cap ), cMP 1.1 ( SL ), mba 11" (HS) mba 13" ( EL CAP),
    iMac ( El Cap ) and I have a spare unibody macbook (SL/EL Cap) and a retired 15" G4.
    Most important is, they all need to work.
    HS is/was a PITA ... :/
    It was a lot of trial and error with the PCIe drives, cards,
    I do remember one card would not boot, another did.
    Also a lot of trial and error with HS and apps ...
    used to love OSX and still do but I'm scared of updates, still on HS .2

    nMP boot drive is APFS, as is the Samsung TB2 NVME, TB PCIe Kingston 9XXGB is old sys
    as is everything else, exept the 11" air with HS is also APFS.
    Only the HS boot drives ...
     
  8. kransbox, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018

    kransbox thread starter macrumors newbie

    kransbox

    Joined:
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    #8
    Yeah I thought so too. I'm not sure how to address that.

    Hmm... I'm wondering if the version I got is made different? Though the details are identical to the pic you took. I'm guessing if it was a 5.0 GT/s then my speeds would be faster. What version Mac Pro? Also I know the specs of the 128 are worse than the 512 SM951, but I think the 256 and 512 are the same, or close.

    Trim is enabled. The 2008 is HFS+, the 2009 is APFS - same results for both.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Darmok N Jalad macrumors 65816

    Darmok N Jalad

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    #9
    I never had any trouble with HS of a cMP 4,1 -> 5,1. However, I can say that when I failed to have TRIM enabled on my SSD, speeds had gotten terrible in less than a year. I don't think APFS is a good idea on non-Apple SSDs either, though I don't have any real data to support it. I just found sticking with classic HFS+ with TRIM to provide the best results, especially if you want to use bootcamp with a non-EFI GPU.

    Sorry, it looks like you mentioned that. I was a bit distracted and blurry eyed this morning. :(
     
  10. StrawberryX, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018

    StrawberryX macrumors member

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    #10
    I do think neither APFS/HFS+ or TRIM would matter with a new drive ( as in not used before )
    and that much speed decrese, It could over time ...

    But It's all a bit trial and error/we don't know yet with APFS ... TRIM etc ...
    on non Apple drives ...
    Usually TRIM is adviced, especially on older SSD's for all I know ...
    but I use Apple, Crucial, Samsung, Kingston ...

    But your 4.1/5.1 should be faster then my 3.1 ...
    It kind of It major +'ss
     
  11. kransbox, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018

    kransbox thread starter macrumors newbie

    kransbox

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    #11
    So in sticking with HFS+ high sierra would be out of the mix. I guess I could live with that, IF I got the speeds advertised. I think I'm going to try a different adapter card to see if it works better, though I'm puzzled why I'm getting 2.5 GT/s in slot 3 when Splifingate gets 5 GT/s with the same adapter. Is there anything that can be done to try to troubleshoot this by chance?

    Interesting development. I removed some RAM from my 3,1. It now has 32 GB of RAM and the speeds have improved, albeit not perfect.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. StrawberryX macrumors member

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    #12
    You can clone HS to HFS+ I think, so it can be in the mix.
    I would like to do that, if I have the time ...
    I have a HFS+ bootable spinner with HS, It is pretty unusable to work etc, exept to clone ...
     
  13. h9826790 macrumors G4

    h9826790

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    Hong Kong
    #13
    https://support.apple.com/kb/sp11?locale=en_US
    Screen Shot 2018-04-08 at 21.46.51.png
    On the 3,1, ONLY one of the open slot has PCIe 2.0 (5GT/s). The rest are PCIe 1.1 (2.5GT/s).

    On the 4,1 (or 5,1), some adaptor can negotiate at 5GT/s ONLY in slot 3 or 4. If you install it in slot 2, it can only negotiate at 2.5GT/s.
     
  14. Darmok N Jalad macrumors 65816

    Darmok N Jalad

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    #14
    You can install HS without the conversion to APFS. It requires some command line entry, but it’s pretty easy.

    http://osxdaily.com/2017/10/17/how-skip-apfs-macos-high-sierra/
     
  15. StrawberryX, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018

    StrawberryX macrumors member

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    #15
    Ow yes

    I got a Sintech M.2(NGFF) key M SSD PCIe Card for Samsung XP941 SM951 M6E PM951 950 PRO
    in the 3.1 with a cooling pad.
    It boots El Cap and goes 700+, and should be faster in a 4.1 or 5.1 in slot 3 or 4 ...
    It's in slot 2, slot one has a GTX 680 ...

    I have the Lycom 120 in the Akitio box,
    without cooling as the box has a ventilator.
    Boots HS, but maybe It didn't boot El Cap in my 3.1.
    I remember switching but don't know the reason,
    could be that the Sintech didn't boot or something in the Thunderbox.

    I also have an untested adapter with a ventilator ...
    don't know the brand.

    I would use one with cooling in a cMP I guess ...
    You don't need a 100 - 200 euro/dollar adapter.
    A lot of folks use the Lycom I think.

    Yes you can max use 48GB ram in the 3.1.
    Thanks for testing that, saves me the trouble of trying 64gig again :)
    I think 700ish is the max you can get, if you lower the ram in a 3.1.
    There is a tread somewhere that shows you the perfect place for the higher volume sticks
    and lower volume sticks.
     
  16. kransbox thread starter macrumors newbie

    kransbox

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2018
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #16
    Okay based on this I put the SM951 in the 2nd slot now on the 3,1. I'm only troubleshooting this one at the moment.(Pic attached).

    I'm getting 700s in Read/Write but it still has a link speed of 2.5 GT/s. I cleared the PRAM. Anything else I can try to get it to register at 5 GT/s?
     

    Attached Files:

  17. StrawberryX, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018

    StrawberryX macrumors member

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    Antwerp
    #17
    As I said above, I think that is the max you can get in a 3.1.
    And it goes even slower if you go over 48GB ram.
    I think you solved your problem there.
    Only other option maybe would be to put a slow graphics card in 3 or 4 and leave 1or 2 open.
    As far as I know, It's how the 3.1 is build and It's not ideal for PCIe SSD blades ...
    Unless someone has a 3.1 with a 680 or faster and a blade and gets 1300'ish ... speeds ...

    Could be more usefull to put them both in slot 3 and 4 of a 4.1/5.1
    and a SATAIII PCIe card in slot 2 in the 3.1.
    Or Sata raid something ...
    I dno
     
  18. kransbox thread starter macrumors newbie

    kransbox

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2018
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    Kentucky
    #18
    Ahh so 700 is all I can expect here. Does your PCI slot say its running at 2.5 GT/s on slot 2 in your 3,1?

    Separate question, how cool does your SSD remain with that card. I do like the heatsink idea.
     
  19. splifingate macrumors 6502

    splifingate

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    Location:
    ATL
    #19
    I am performing these tests on a Mid 2012 5,1 per my sig.

    Oddly-enough, with AJA-Lite, I just noticed that I was getting 110MB/s read and 1,3K write with the Mailiya (v.003) in Slot #3 and the Vantec USB 3.1 Gen.2 in Slot #4 . . . I was getting 1,2K+ R/W prior to the addition of the USB 3.1 card

    . . . I disabled Trim, and got (roughly) the same results. I then moved the Mailiya to Slot #2, and got 2.5GT/s on the Mailiya, with similar R/W.

    I then re-enabled Trim, moved the Vantec to Slot #2, and the Mailiya back to Slot #3, and (while the Vantec now reports 2.5 GT/s) I am now getting ~1,3K R *and* W on the Mailiya in Slot #3 @5.0 GT/s

    I am getting varying results from both BM and AJA, so MMV . . .

    [edit] Usually hover at about 100F on the SM951, with small 1cm AL heatsinks I attached to each chip. [/edit]

    I would suggest removing the USB controller from Slot #4, re-enabling Trim, and rebooting twice to run your tests.

    Regards, splifingate
     
  20. AidenShaw, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018

    AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

    Joined:
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    Location:
    The Peninsula
    #20
    Note that enabling trim does not trim the disk. It means that any files deleted after enabling will be trimmed.

    After enabling trim, you should run the disk repair to force the trim operation.

    Easy way to 'trim' an SSD [​IMG]
    http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20120114214648388
     
  21. Squuiid macrumors 65816

    Squuiid

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    #21
    Yes, buy one of the controller cards I recommended above. The issue you’re having is due to your PCIe carrier card.
     
  22. splifingate macrumors 6502

    splifingate

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    ATL
    #22
    '12 . . . how very apropos :)

    FWIW, I notice little difference between 100MB/s and 1GB/s disk operation....

    Regards, splifingate
     
  23. kransbox thread starter macrumors newbie

    kransbox

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2018
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    Kentucky
    #23
    yup, I ordered one today for the 5,1 specifically. If it doesn't work, I'll send you the bill. ;)
     
  24. AidenShaw macrumors P6

    AidenShaw

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    #24
    SSD drives still work the same in 2018. Enabling or disabling TRIM does nothing to the disk - it only changes what happens for future file deletes.

    If your SSD is extremely "dirty", enabling TRIM won't make it any cleaner.
     
  25. nigelbb macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    #25
    The maximum RAM you can use in a 3,1 without PCIe SSD slowdown is actually 56GB i.e. 6x8GB & 2x4GB.
     

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