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Smartphone Manufacturers 'Lukewarm' on Sapphire, Call Material Impractical Due to Cost and Supply

1Zach1 said:
I have several large, deep scratches on my screen. No idea how they happened, but they are there.
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Thunderhawks said:
Never will forget that I had my first iPhone out of the package just to look at it upside down on the car tray between the seats .
My dog steps on it in under a minute and it makes a huge scratch. Urrgh.

Otterbox since then, but if this sapphire stuff holds up I'll go commando with my iPhone:)
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Not sure which model iPhone you have but the screens from all manufacturers are light years ahead of what they used to be. Take a look at what it took to damage the screen of the HTC One M8, the Samsung GS5, and finally an iPhone 5S.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fzr7ULAiEk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP2S5yDZ3cY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTJI_pus1dk

Basically it takes a helluva lot to scratch the screen. Curiosity question. Comparing those videos, didn't it seem like the iPhone guy was gentle compared to the other tester? That guy was a maniac.:eek:
 
Unibody all over again

This reminds me of when the unibody design was leaked. "Experts" said it would be too costly if it was even possible. It was largely panned as a pipe dream.

Apple did of course switch to the unibody design and has not looked back. They built their own supply chain and researched their own production process.

I see sapphire glass no differently. They found a way to make it cheaper and better than anyone else. Come September I imagine the naysayers and other smartphone makers will be cursing Apple and scrambling to catch up.

If the video that is out there is in fact a Saphire front glass, this stuff looks to be every bit as good as Steve would want in a new glass for the iPhone. Only test remaining is how well it would survive a corner impact that could cause it to shatter from the compression forces. However if it can take a knife to the middle of the glass, I'd say it is pretty shatter proof.
 
Until the first iPhone came out with a glass covered front screen, all phone used plastic, because it was difficult to cut and shape thin glass in an inexpensive manner. Apple and it's partners (Corning and a Chinese company) solved that problem. They made it work and the rest is history.

Could be the same with sapphire or sapphire coated glass. Yes, sapphire is brittle, but has a scratch resistance close to diamond.

And regardless of the breaking tests shown...when a piece of glass has a small scratch on it...those tests are void, since a scratch becomes a weak fracture point for the glass, so it breaking point is reduced.

That is where sapphire has an advantage...it scratches less, so it breaking point can be higher than glass, that is scratched!

One down side is that sapphire reflects more surface light, so can have more glare to it. You can see that on the Touch ID window. (look at the reflection of a bulb from above and compare the bulb reflection brightness on the screen vs the Touch ID).

This negative reflection can be solved somewhat by an anti reflection coating. It's a bit harder, and they needed to do it on the lens cover well. And they did. So I think Apple figured this out.

The big thing is not so much the technology, but how to reduce the cost of manufacturing, cutting, shaping and installing. And that is what Apple figured out in 2007, and on a large scale probably for the sapphire now. And that scale of production is what has kept Apple ahead of competition on all parts of today's smartphone.

Sapphire like materials are used in missile domes, etc, so impact science is well know. Corning doesn't have any commercial business in sapphire, so they are weak in that area, even though they have smart people, they haven't invested.

VF
 
Those reasons in the main article suck IMO, the only one that holds water is the high cost. Who the heck bends their smartphone? Oh yeah I forgot about the select few who put them in their back pockets and sit on them, but besides those Darwin winners...

Financial though does make sense, I'm sure Apple has higher margins due to their negotiations and aqcuisitions so they can afford to lose a little bit of margin to sell the astronomical amount of units they do. It's all a quantity gain at the end of the day.

Anyway it's just one more feature for the other manufacturers to backpedal on.
 
The biggest problem is sapphire glass only sounds good. It's sapphire glass. But You can't tell it had much different than other glass in real world use.
 
Never say never

Apple has a history of investing and leveraging new technology, materials, and manufacturing processes that it leverages within its supply chain to provide fundamental competitive advantages and greatly improved products. Even today the material fit, finish, and build of iPad, iPhone, MacBook Air, iMac, etc., is far superior to its competitors. I am sure the plastic screen manufactures had evidence that said glass could not be used in phones due to tranparency, brittle, hard to machine and handle, etc., yet Apple discovered and worked with Corning to deliver the glass in manufacturing volume, shaping, and integrating into phones.

I don't know if this year Apple will offer sapphire or ever, but anyone saying it won't or can't is making guesses in the dark. I suspect like the Aluminum bodies of MacBook Air, the first versions will be remarkable, but the 2nd Gen of machine body parts will blow people's minds away.

Any company that is dismissing Apple is being disingenuous and will frantically try to be a "fast follower" if Apple does launch sapphire iPhones. Their problem, like the Laptops trying to mimic MacBook Air, is that it will take years to duplicate Apple dedicated supply chain or that supply chain grow enough capacity to service non-Apple customers.
 
Smartphone Manufacturers 'Lukewarm' on Sapphire, Call Material Impractical Due to Cost and Supply
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Smartphone Manufacturers 'oh ****' on Sapphire, Call Material Impractical Due to Cost and Supply
 
drewu said:
Just my 2 pennies: But I am far more likely to drop the phone, than put 161lbs on it.

I think (for me at least) it comes down to which performs better for accidental drops and scratch resistance. Which is a bit of catch 22, as the Gorilla Glass is better for drops, and sapphire is better for scratches :/
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good point! thats why Im waiting on Gorilla Sapphire...
 
mabhatter said:
It would seen sapphire is better for an iWatch. It's strapped to your wrist where you get lots of wear, but you're not really going to drop it often. It would be easy to form the watch size pieces right out of the oven making them very durable.

Whatever Apple is going to do, it will be huge, bigger than anybody else has in the works.
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Agreed that sapphire would be better for a watch.

However, Apple is still untested post-Steve with regards to new product categories. I would not bet towards anything being "huge" at this point, from what Ive seen so far. Wait-and-see if the magic is still there, but so-far-no-good as far as I'm concerned.

And yes, I meant "Ive". :p
 
I keep wondering if this hints at advancements in the actual touch screen that couldn't be achieved with regular glass due to some difference in the structure of the molecules (thinking of that haptic feedback post for example).
 
cgc said:
I have a screen protector on my Retina iPad Mini and it's amazingly clear (Zagg brand)...you make it out like screen protectors are garbage but they are fantastic. I'll bet people will still put a screen protector on a sapphire screen...
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Nonsense. Even the clearest screen protector is a lot more opaque than nothing, which is what you will need with these displays. Put them side by side and only a blind man would be fooled.

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melendezest said:
Agreed that sapphire would be better for a watch.

However, Apple is still untested post-Steve with regards to new product categories. I would not bet towards anything being "huge" at this point, from what Ive seen so far. Wait-and-see if the magic is still there, but so-far-no-good as far as I'm concerned.

And yes, I meant "Ive". :p
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LOL. The Apple of today is far bigger and more successful than anything that happened under Jobs.
 
usarioclave said:
How does the "sapphire is brittle" comments fit with that ultra-bendy screen? Either that isn't sapphire, or Apple found a way to make it flexible and clear?
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Anything can bend if it is thin enough. Maybe what Apple is doing is laminating a very thin coating of sapphire over the gorilla glass.

This would also address the high cost of sapphire. If you slice it thin enough you don't use much of it on each phone.

And finally the thinner you slice it them more clear it becomes.
 
69Mustang said:
That still doesn't mean the panel is sapphire. No matter the preference of the blogger. It's not even about questioning his integrity. He may think the panel is sapphire. I'm just reserving judgement. As of yet, there's no proof of what the panel is made of.
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If it was glass it would have surely broken
 
proline said:
A poorly thought-out post to be sure. Only a small percentage of screens crack. Maybe 5%, maybe 15%. Doesn't really matter in the scheme of things. However, 100% of iPhone screens are either hidden behind ugly plastic screen protectors that add weight, dim the colors, and blur the high-resolution imagery or else they are carried without a screen protector like mine in which case they accumulate micro-scratches over time which also dim colors and reduce sharpness. Just try holding a two year old iPhone 5 that's been in someone's pocket for two years next to a new one at the Apple store.

Sapphire will mean no more screen protectors / scratches for Apple's devices, which means that in everyday use the screens will look much better than anything else that's out there, especially after a couple years of use. Apple understands what matters in actual use a lot more than marketing-driven competitors or anonymous forum commentators.
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What was poorly thought out? It was a simple question. When have scratches been an issue? Not sure what you thought you read. Bolded from your quote: (paraphrased for brevity) Some iPhones have screen protectors. Okay. Relevance?

I don't think my question lacks merit. I've been a reader of this forum for 2 1/2 years and can't recall a thread about scratches on the screen. On the back of the phone, yup. On the chamfer, ditto. Have I read every thread? Nope. After the announcement of sapphire, screen scratches started to gain relevance.

2nd bold from your quote: When did I question Apple's understanding of anything? Projecting your inner monologue onto my words... not cool.
 
Hard to believe that Apple would go with a more shatter-prone material. The image of the shattered iPhone is well known, and it'd be hard to market anything other than an improvement. There are many recipes that GT/Apple could implement, and may not be publicly available for testing.

I look forward to the torture tests!
 
flatfoot99 said:
good point! thats why Im waiting on Gorilla Sapphire...
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Sapphire Glass*. Gorilla Glass doesn't specify whether it's sapphire glass or regular glass so they could sill use the name Gorilla Glass for Gorilla Glass 4 but with Sapphire Glass instead.
 
penajmz said:
This is why Apple is and will always be ahead.
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Please!

Q. Oh, my phone's display is made of sapphire what yours made with?

A. Gorilla glass.

Response: I guess I won't be hanging with you because your phone is a poor quality one.

A. But Gorilla glass serves the same purpose at a cheaper price. Last year the 5s used gorilla glass and you were not saying that then. In fact, Apple says - what happen?

Response: See Ya, am better than you.

What baloney.
 
avanpelt said:
Well, of course Corning is going to publicize a single test that supposedly shows that their glass product is superior to sapphire. I want to see an independent series of tests comparing the strength of Gorilla Glass to sapphire. I'd also like to see that key and knife scratch test with Gorilla Glass. The sapphire video showing the scratching (or lack thereof) was amazing.

I think this is similar to the Qualcomm SVP saying in September 2013, "I know there's a lot of noise because Apple did [64-bit] on their A7. I think they are doing a marketing gimmick. There's zero benefit a consumer gets from that." Then, a few weeks later they announced that they were getting into the 64-bit mobile processor business.
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Or like Andy Rubin saying nobody want to talk to their phone after Siri.

Edit: Or also like Jobs saying smaller iPad is useless..
 
SilianRail said:
The iPhone + 2 year contract is going to run you around $2,000. The $27 screen premium represents an infinitesimal 1.4% price increase. There are a lot more than 1.4% of iPhones being used with a cracked screen.
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The $2000 include the services you received in those 2 years. The cost of the phone is still $650. You pay the same for the service whether you own the phone or subsidize it through...Verizon, ATT, Sprints...They just changed it lately because of T-Mobile's plan.
 
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