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Snow Leopard API's Finalized, A Step Closer to Release?

zub3qin said:
Can someone explain what is so new about Snow Leopard?

It seems to me that there won't be any significant new features in this OS.
So how is Apple going to convince the user that they must get this new release?

Sure, there are a lot of under the hood changes- but to the avg computer user, they won't know or care. Things like interface, visual effects, features, are what sells the OS to the normal user.

So what is Apple up to? My guess that 10.6 is all about getting a small footprint "complete" MacOS (unlike iPhone OS X) onto a small piece of hardware- maybe a netbook/touchscreen device.

Here is what Apple says about Snow Leopard:
"Taking a break from adding new features, Snow Leopard — scheduled to ship in about a year — builds on Leopard’s enormous innovations by delivering a new generation of core software technologies that will streamline Mac OS X, enhance its performance, and set new standards for quality. Snow Leopard dramatically reduces the footprint of Mac OS X, making it even more efficient for users and giving them back valuable hard drive space for their music and photos."

Why do we care about footprint/disc space in this era of cheap hard-drives? As of today, a fully functional OS 10.5 takes only about 5 Gb (without iLife). Maybe they want to get the whole OS on a chip, and not take up too much flash memory on their new device with the OS, allowing you more space for "music and photos".....

Why
Click to expand...


Just for comparisons' sake, Windows 7 is similar to Snow Leopard in that it's just a massive under-the-hood improvement (no, I'm not saying Leopard is to Vista or vis-versa, just go with my example :p).

I'm positive we'll see a few new superficial "features" that are not under-the-hood. They have to market towards the non-computer savvy users too of course. Really, Windows 7 has a few extra features like this, but a not a whole lot. Under-the-hood though, there are massive improvements, and a somewhat altered UI. I'm sure Snow Leopard will be getting similar treatment to what Microsoft is giving Windows 7 (if not better).

Either way, it's a good time to be in the market for a new OS. :D
 
MikhailT said:
More like Pre-Alpha to Alpha. ;)

The first Beta will be the WWDC build.
Click to expand...

No, alpha just means any build which doesn't have all the features. So arguably its still Alpha though the API is beta as its feature-complete.


Stridder44 said:
Just for comparisons' sake, Windows 7 is similar to Snow Leopard in that it's just a massive under-the-hood improvement.
Click to expand...

Actually Windows 7 hasn't got many under the hood changes at all - they all came in Vista.
 
This release is just more about stability/optimization/"future-proofing" release than features and GUi changes. It is the same way the W7 is to Vista.


There's a lot of minor features added. System wide test modification (think textxpander or typinator) is built in, keyboard shortcuts manager, Stacks Navigation, NTFS read/write support built in, Exchange support built in, services are now in the right click menu instead in Apple's Menu and many more that I can't just remember.

They are all very subtle changes. We won't notice all the changes right away but over time we'll start to notice how it is different from Leopard.
 
zub3qin said:
Can someone explain what is so new about Snow Leopard?

[...]

Why
Click to expand...
You are correct in that the average user only really cares about the bells and whistles because that is all they can comprehend, but I am sure Apple will be presenting SL with enough change to ensure record sales. But this is a Mac OS X release where uptake is excessive compared to Windows uptake.

But with 64 and 32-bit native in one build with all localizations, OpenCL, Grand Central Dispatch and a complete replacement of Carbon for Cocoa there is enough that Apple will be able to market the new OS easily.

The UI will be changing, for sure, there are new user features even though last year Jobs specifically stated "no new features" despite then mentioning some of them.

- - - - -

Personally, i'd like the removal of optical drives from all of Apple's notebooks. Send a clear message that old-hat tech of optical media is too slow to read and write, noisy, uses too much power, more prone to break and way too large compared to the amount of storage in the drive compared to other measures. But with the OS still on optical discs this presents a problem. Flash on the other hand can install the OS in under 10 minutes from start to finish with little power drain.

8GB flash drives are as low as $8 retail for a single drive, which is expensive compared to a DL-DVD. But it's not expensive compared to the optical drive Apple uses. On top of that, the optical drive is the largest item by volume in MacBooks and requires a position along the edge taking up valuable portside real estate. This would make engineering a little easier, allow for really cool internal changes and send a clear message that Apple doesn't want to include Blu-ray drives, even if they finally allow for HDCP in the OS. I can dream.
 
Eraserhead said:
No, alpha just means any build which doesn't have all the features. So arguably its still Alpha though the API is beta as its feature-complete.




Actually Windows 7 hasn't got many under the hood changes at all - they all came in Vista.
Click to expand...

That's why I said it is more like Pre-Alpha to Alpha stage. I didn't mean it is in pre-alpha stage.

W7 has a lot of under the hood changes just not massive as the other guy said. One of the most obvious under the hood change is the way they redesigned the Windowing system so that any hidden windows or inactive windows will not take up any video memory. So it'll be more responsive and less laggy.
 
MikhailT said:
One of the most obvious under the hood change is the way they redesigned the Windowing system so that any hidden windows or inactive windows will not take up any video memory. So it'll be more responsive and less laggy.
Click to expand...

I though that was how Windows has always worked, that's why you can create those blurs with un-responsive apps.
 
MrCrowbar said:
Anyway, I'm just waiting for Snow Leopard to get a new Macbook that will last me 3+ years like this one.
Click to expand...


That is my strategy also. I wonder if Apple notices a significant bump in Mac sales after the release of each new system? Plus we can always hope for some CPU speed bumps for the MacBooks by then too.
 
twoodcc said:
a great sign that maybe snow leopard will be ready at wwdc? i sure hope so
Click to expand...

Nah. There's tons of stuff which needs to be done before release now. The system is sluggish and slow. Needs optimization process overall, at least 3 months away from release.
 
MikhailT said:
More like Pre-Alpha to Alpha. ;)

The first Beta will be the WWDC build.
Click to expand...

Eraserhead said:
No, alpha just means any build which doesn't have all the features. So arguably its still Alpha though the API is beta as its feature-complete.
Click to expand...


MikhailT said:
That's why I said it is more like Pre-Alpha to Alpha stage. I didn't mean it is in pre-alpha stage.
Click to expand...

"Concept/Pre-Alpha: In this stage of development, the script is more of an abstract idea than an actual working program. Through this stage the coding starts and changes to functions are being made until a working draft is created.

Alpha: In this stage you have a working script, but it probably still has lots of bugs that need to be worked out. You might not have all your features yet, but the core of the program is running and can be tested extensively.

Beta: In this stage the program is near completion. All of the features are working and the software is often opened up to the public to test. There may still be some bugs that need to be worked out that may not have shown up in alpha testing."

Maybe post-pre-alpha to pre-Beta? :p
 
zub3qin said:
Can someone explain what is so new about Snow Leopard?

It seems to me that there won't be any significant new features in this OS.
So how is Apple going to convince the user that they must get this new release?

Sure, there are a lot of under the hood changes- but to the avg computer user, they won't know or care. Things like interface, visual effects, features, are what sells the OS to the normal user.

So what is Apple up to? My guess that 10.6 is all about getting a small footprint "complete" MacOS (unlike iPhone OS X) onto a small piece of hardware- maybe a netbook/touchscreen device.

Here is what Apple says about Snow Leopard:
"Taking a break from adding new features, Snow Leopard — scheduled to ship in about a year — builds on Leopard’s enormous innovations by delivering a new generation of core software technologies that will streamline Mac OS X, enhance its performance, and set new standards for quality. Snow Leopard dramatically reduces the footprint of Mac OS X, making it even more efficient for users and giving them back valuable hard drive space for their music and photos."

Why do we care about footprint/disc space in this era of cheap hard-drives? As of today, a fully functional OS 10.5 takes only about 5 Gb (without iLife). Maybe they want to get the whole OS on a chip, and not take up too much flash memory on their new device with the OS, allowing you more space for "music and photos".....





Why
Click to expand...

I think you underestimate "the average computer user". Especially the 'average' Mac user. Apple makes things easy, but they don't dumb it down. For example, they can sell people the OS by showing benchmarks of the performance increases it gives you. They'll have to be pretty impressive to tempt people to switch, but then Apple has spent an entire year on it, so they may well have a case for sale.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple was thinking about moving the OS (or at least a copy of it) to a separate internal storage device. If that copy were used as the primary copy of the OS, there could be significant performance advantages and reliability and security improvements. If a small (say 4Gb) memory chip were included to store a backup copy of the OS, this would also provide reliability enhancements without adding significantly to the cost. It could also soften the blow of losing target disk mode, as it would ensure that even if the OS is corrupt, you can still boot in to a full OSX environment. It's totally an Apple-style move.

It's also something Windows OEMs would find difficult to compete with. They don't have control over the code to make running it from an onboard memory chip a seamless solution, nor is Windows small enough to fit on to a low-cost memory chip for backup purposes. The closest PC OEMs could do would be to create a linux environment, which not only provides a poorer experience, but pushes the OEMs yet further towards Linux. They want to go there because it's an OS they can control, so they can more effectively compete with Apple. Apple wants them to go there because it forces users to switch, and those OEMs are rubbish at software and are sure to fail in comparison to OSX.
 
Starship77 said:
"Concept/Pre-Alpha: In this stage of development, the script is more of an abstract idea than an actual working program. Through this stage the coding starts and changes to functions are being made until a working draft is created.

Alpha: In this stage you have a working script, but it probably still has lots of bugs that need to be worked out. You might not have all your features yet, but the core of the program is running and can be tested extensively.

Beta: In this stage the program is near completion. All of the features are working and the software is often opened up to the public to test. There may still be some bugs that need to be worked out that may not have shown up in alpha testing."

Maybe post-pre-alpha to pre-Beta? :p
Click to expand...
That's exactly what is going on and why before the API freeze, it is considered a pre-alpha. Once the API is completely frozen, no new major changes will come afterward, which means it becomes a working draft. Now Apple has to make sure the backend to all of the new API has to be working perfectly, therefore moving to the Alpha stage.

(Apple also said in the last seed that they got the 64bit kernal nearly completely and wanted all the developers to test their kexts against it. Sounds like alpha stage to me as well)


Either way, Gmail is in beta stage since forever and redefined the meaning of beta for the Web 2.0 world where it is cool to brand a site with beta label even if it is ready for the public.

Who cares what stage it is in. We don't know when its coming out, all we can do is wait for the WWDC and see what they'll say.
 
Stridder44 said:
Just for comparisons' sake, Windows 7 is similar to Snow Leopard in that it's just a massive under-the-hood improvement (no, I'm not saying Leopard is to Vista or vis-versa, just go with my example :p).

I'm positive we'll see a few new superficial "features" that are not under-the-hood. They have to market towards the non-computer savvy users too of course. Really, Windows 7 has a few extra features like this, but a not a whole lot. Under-the-hood though, there are massive improvements, and a somewhat altered UI. I'm sure Snow Leopard will be getting similar treatment to what Microsoft is giving Windows 7 (if not better).

Either way, it's a good time to be in the market for a new OS. :D
Click to expand...

Actually, Snow Leopard is more like Vista. Vista had tons of under-the-hood improvements. In fact, they restarted development of Vista so that they could scrap the UI work they were concentrating on and focus on the under-the-hood changes required to make that UI concept real.

Of course, Microsoft being Microsoft, they eventually broke that UI concept down in to smaller, less impressive and less well integrated pieces. Some pieces pictured as fundamental to the future of Windows (e.g. .Net 3.0 or "WinFX" as it was known - the successor to the Win32 API) were completed and then left to rot as Microsoft lost the will/vision to push ahead in the wake of Vista's disaster. At the end of the day, Microsoft is still led by their marketing and accounting departments. Apple is led by its engineering department.
 
this is good that Apple is getting things done quickly and without any major delays, unlike a certain large airplane maker with their new jet. ;)
Unfortunately, this is another step that is making me wonder if my PowerPC macs will be supported.
Does anybody have any concrete information on SL and PPC compatibility.
 
Saladinos said:
Actually, Snow Leopard is more like Vista. Vista had tons of under-the-hood improvements. In fact, they restarted development of Vista so that they could scrap the UI work they were concentrating on and focus on the under-the-hood changes required to make that UI concept real.

Of course, Microsoft being Microsoft, they eventually broke that UI concept down in to smaller, less impressive and less well integrated pieces. Some pieces pictured as fundamental to the future of Windows (e.g. .Net 3.0 or "WinFX" as it was known - the successor to the Win32 API) were completed and then left to rot as Microsoft lost the will/vision to push ahead in the wake of Vista's disaster. At the end of the day, Microsoft is still led by their marketing and accounting departments. Apple is led by its engineering department.
Click to expand...

The reason people constantly use W7 to compare to SL is because of the way Apple is pushing SL as the improvement to Leopard the same way W7 is an improvement to Vista. (Vista does look a lot like Leopard, a lot of changes like Spotlight, Stacks, minor GUI overall change, transparent menubar)

In reality, it's two different companies with two different OS and with two different goals, it's like comparing oranges to apples (heh a pun). MS should change its name to Orange.:D
 
Saladinos said:
It's also something Windows OEMs would find difficult to compete with. They don't have control over the code to make running it from an onboard memory chip a seamless solution, nor is Windows small enough to fit on to a low-cost memory chip for backup purposes.
Click to expand...

How would apple doing this be any different than a motherboard manufacturer (eg. foxconn, someone that produces for apple, intel and dell) just whacking a bootable flash/etc chip onto a board?
Is windows that large or chips expensive? no.

I'm not going to respond to your very first comment, it's too impossible to do without (legimate?) generalising and sounding hugely arrogant - maybe you over estimate the 'average user'? Or maybe your idea of an 'average' educated user is someone that, like you said, looks at some marketing (a keynote graph) and calls it a benchmark :)
 
qubex said:
Next month is mid-year. The last sentence of the article must be wrong.
Click to expand...

Well it says "roughly," and as far as I know Apple hasn't said anything more definitive since last year's WWDC, at which time they said Snow Leopard would be out in "about a year." All other estimates come from reading various tea leaves. (And having said that, I agree that with forecasts that say September is likely the earliest date for the release.)
 
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