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So, am I screwed ?
- Thread starter Dentifrice
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Better reliability, stability, security, power efficiency and potentially performance due to less points of failure and the opportunity to optimise the system for a given RAM chip as opposed to maintaining tolerances imposed by the spec. In addition, modern laptops come with with RAM pretty much maxed out, so the strongest case for swapped RAM (upgradeability) is a non-issue. And finally, all this is a bit pointless since Apple is using premium mobile RAM which does not come in slotted format to beging with, as its a different standard
Where would you draw a line? Solder CPU but not anything else? What about the power circuitry? The rhetorics could be spun both ways. You suggest that soldering-on components leads to the throw-away society and has negative environmental impact. I would argue that the opposite is the case, once certain conditions are met. Soldering components helps to save material, both by forgoing the need for additional connectors/boards and enabling manufacturers to produce devices with lower footprint. As to throw-away society... if you don't have the means to repair something, it doesn't mean that the manufacturer can't. Apple already declared that their goal is maximal recycling and reusability of components. And while the situation might not be perfectly satisfactory right now, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to replace RAM or any other component. A customer would get a replacement logic board and the defective one would go to a repair facility, get tested and fixed.
Or, if you prefer another spin on this: going full modular just for the sake of repairability is most likely sheer craziness. Components fail very rarely, and the additional material required to achieve modularity is almost surely more wasteful. What are the RAM failure rates nowadays? 0.5% over 5 years? 1%? 0.1%? Putting all RAM on a separate mini board, effectively doubling (or more) the material need for ALL RAM sounds much more like throw-away society to me
i cannot believe anything of this.
i would not draw a line, i would make anything modular and interchangeable like a desktop PC, especially i would make everything thicker since this thin madness is straight non sense. even then we can make them still thin or light enough.
we could keep our laptops for 10 years or even longer, just change the mainboard after 10 years, hell even change the case.
change screen, change cpu, change gpu, fans, battery, RAM, hard drive. everything should be possible.
i think thats the only viable future, but we are far away from it, like decades...or even centurys.
Whether you believe it or not, it doesn't change the facts. Do you really think that throwing away an entire miniboard with majority of chips still most likely intact is more sustainable than just resoldering the actual failed chips? Also, do you really think that modular designs, with their increased material and space requirements come for free?
That would only be possible when the technology is stagnating. In our world, where every 5-6 years, a principally new tech comes around, this is simply not doable.
What are you talking about is not the future but the past. We constantly integrate things to make them faster, more efficient, more sustainable Where in the past one would have the central CPU, the numerical coprocessor and the CPU cache placed on different chips, now then are part of the same large design. We are now stacking multiple RAM chips into a single chip to make RAM faster and more efficient. We are even integrating voltage regulators on the CPU die to make them more energy efficient. Same for all other components like the GPU, the storage, etc. etc.
And finally, the tech is changing. For example, within the next 10 years, RAM will most likely disappear as a concept. After all, its only exists because we still don't know how to make fast persistent storage — but we are getting there. RAM's only function is to act as a cache between the CPU and the external storage/connectivity. Once SSDs catch up in speed with RAM, the later will become unnecessary.
Your vision of modularity is only possible if one can 100% predict what shape and form of tech is optimal. And that, obviously, is not possible. Take your desire to have replaceable fans in laptops. What if in two years, someone comes up with a much better cooling design that for example involves some sort of liquid metal heatpipes paired with electric jet airflow generators or some other craziness? How are you going to design a chassis today that could take all innovations like those into account?
FYI, I just dropped my macbook at my local Apple store. The genius guy told me they'll run diagnotic on it and if the board has problem (memory in this case), they'll replace it at no cost because it will be covered by the 90 days warranty of my screen replacement 1 month ago. So he kind of acknowledge that the problem could be related to the last operation they did to replace the screen.
I don't want to say "victory" too soon but at least, it's a good start. I'm waiting for them to call me back.
I don't want to say "victory" too soon but at least, it's a good start. I'm waiting for them to call me back.
How adding the RAM sockets is reducing the "reliability" and "stability" ?
Last time I checked, they are not decreasing the performance and all the memtests are passing fine! Otherwise the overclockers and power users would beg the manufacturers for the desktop motherboards with soldered RAM, but for some reason we don't see that The only possible point of failure here is mechanical - which could happen only if you insert/eject RAM like 10000 times or apply too much pressure to this RAM socketI thought you meant that you dropped it on the floor at the Apple Store and it broke even more. I was dumbstruck.
no, i don't believe that, you do.
do you really believe they solder a new chip on the board?
they just throw it away and replace the entire board, every time.
i never said it comes for free, nothing is free.
i know for a fact its cheaper and more sustainable if you replace a cpu chip instead of throwing away an entire board.
actually every couple of months a new tech comes around.
its doable in desktops since a long time. it would be doable in laptops as well.
its quite the opposite, solid storage is becoming somewhat obsolete. and it will never-ever reach the speed of memory.
do you know how much faster memory is ?
we are talking about thousands to millions of times faster depending on the unit type.
Internet speeds gonna reach speed of solid storage.
every app can run in a browser, everything can be stored in a cloud.
Air cooling is so extremely efficient already, we don't need any improvement in this regard if we increase available space on the device.
there are already liquid metal heat pipes in the devices today, you lack imagination.
of course there are drawbacks as with everything.
i'l give you an example, i still use my iPhone 4 today and i would like to replace the battery that would cost about 15 bucks. but i need to pay 90 or more to apple to get it replaced, leading me to throw it in the bin since thats the full value of the device today.
this has nothing to do with sustainability.
im talking about something like this direction:
but of course this will not create jobs and growth
our broken society needs to throw away everything as fast as possible to maintain this growth based politics
so we just continue to buy things we don't need, with money we don't have, to impress people we don't like.
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The same goes for SSDs as well. Samsung has pluggable M2 SSDs that give you read-write speeds similar to that of the Mac. Somehow, people think Apple has infused the RAMs and SSDs in their laptops with spells that make them run faster. Have to hand it out to their marketing department
In the future, you might want to consider buying AppleCare (three year coverage) and selling your MBP just before the AppleCare expires. That way you can get a good price for it -- Macs hold their resale value well, but especially if they're under warranty. Then you get to upgrade to shiny new tech every few years, and you have total peace of mind.
Edit: just saw your follow-up post about Apple possibly covering the replacement. Good luck!
Maybe bad wording from my side. I wrote "premium" because these chips a) are more expensive than standard DDR3/DDR4 and b) is rated to run at 2133, which is fairly high for LPDDR3 and on par with last-year DDR4 speeds. I was not aware that LPDDR3 is available as SODIMM and I was not able to find any such modules in online shops I have looked at. Could you point me to one?
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I think I was fairly clear in saying that while we don't know what exactly Apple does with the old boards, 100% recyclability is their declared goal. And they are working on the tech to make it possible (e.g. Liam). And their laptop designs are clear designed with this in mind.
I think your data is a bit outdated. Right now, the SSD in my Mac is about 10-12 times slower than the speed of fast DDR4 RAM. And there is new tech in development that will close the gap even further. In contrast, DDR RAM is kind of stuck, with only minuscule improvements over time.
But it has a lot to do with creating jobs and supporting economy
The enterprise I was describing is going to move customer spendings more from materials to support. That is also something we see in all other high-tech fields. Which IMO is a good thing. Frankly, I don't see any other way for technological progress to go forward.
I think your data is a bit outdated. Right now, the SSD in my Mac is about 10-12 times slower than the speed of fast DDR4 RAM. And there is new tech in development that will close the gap even further. In contrast, DDR RAM is kind of stuck, with only minuscule improvements over time.
But it has a lot to do with creating jobs and supporting economy
im curious if we gonna see lpddr4 in new macbook pro and finally going over 16 GB
The mistake most people make with SSDs is thinking that MB/s is what's important. It's not. We don't perceive speed this way. random access time is key, while in MB/sec we may reach actual RAM speeds we do not at all in the latency department. and things look like we get memory on-chip in the future, extending the gap even more.
for me its just a fact that there is no way to create jobs at all, now.
for the most part work will just evaporate thanks to "Liam". and its happening faster then anyone could thought of.
and i believe less material cost means "more profit" not "more customer support"
my god, these people complain because they cannot afford to buy another one or repair if the product get damaged?
Apple is always manage to put in there for their own software/hardware work together in a seamless less hot less noise way. The only advantage to have everything swappable is to save money, so, like i said from the beginning, if you are in Apple ecosystem, you make money. I always swap a product after is out of warranty, apple products, car etc, expect maybe the tv, washer machine things like that,since the technologies does not work as fast for those
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since i work on pro apps,and not just running benchmark all day to see who has the bigger numbers,i dont think is necessary DDR4(is too small in real life usage), the DDR5 it will be the next big step
Apple is always manage to put in there for their own software/hardware work together in a seamless less hot less noise way. The only advantage to have everything swappable is to save money, so, like i said from the beginning, if you are in Apple ecosystem, you make money. I always swap a product after is out of warranty, apple products, car etc, expect maybe the tv, washer machine things like that,since the technologies does not work as fast for those
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since i work on pro apps,and not just running benchmark all day to see who has the bigger numbers,i dont think is necessary DDR4(is too small in real life usage), the DDR5 it will be the next big step
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Alas unlikely, as Intel still doesn't support LPDDR4 (as far as I know)
Very true, but there is also already shipping tech that approaches DDR latencies (Intel's Optane). And also, if we get memory-on-chip, won't it kind of invalidate your original demand for more modularity?
and i believe less material cost means "more profit" not "more customer support"
I prefer to be an optimist
But really, I don't see any other way if efficiency and sustainability is a goal. And its not exclusive for computing. For example, the house I live in uses solar panels and aquifer heat exchangers for floor heating. There is no way I could perform maintenance on a system like this, unlike the more traditional heaters. But it ultimately makes the building autonomous from the external power grid and does not use any fossil fuels for heating. Does it save me money? Not really, since any savings from increased efficiency are offset by higher cost of equipment. But its certainly more sustainable (and the comfort level is something else).Look like the math is backwards.
At current exchange rates,
2549 cdn is 1894 usd
5299 is 3939 usd
$3,499 CDN -> $2,599 USD
$2,549 CDN -> $1,893 USD
$5,299 CDN -> $3,936 USD
Am I missing something here on exchange rates? Canadian dollar is presently worth $0.74 US
EU countries have 20% or higher VAT, don't forget to subtract that when comparing.
And as to Canada... the base 15" costs CAD 2999, which is USD 2229, which is about $150 cheaper than what it sells for in USA. Maxed out 15": CAD 5299 = USD 3938 (in USA the same laptop costs $4299). I'd say you make a good bargain by buying in Canada
They called me back
Memory was the problem, brand new logic board
Free! was covered by my screen warranty.
Awesome support!
Memory was the problem, brand new logic board
Free! was covered by my screen warranty.
Awesome support!
got my mac........and a new problem !
When I start it, I can use it for maybe 5 minutes then the screen turn off and it shutdown
W
T
F
so tired of this
no crash report on restart. It's like it just shutdown
they copy my OS from last SSD, I think I gonna try to reinstall mac os
[doublepost=1496275436][/doublepost]no crash report on restart. It's like it just shutdown
they copy my OS from last SSD, I think I gonna try to reinstall mac os
[doublepost=1496277281][/doublepost]I created a new user just to eliminate software problems that could occurs
so far it's not shut downing
maybe cloning the harddrive maybe have **** up something on my profile.
Because they changed the logic board (so complete new computer), maybe I should reinstall Mac os to be sure to have something clean
what do you think ?
Edit : no doubt about it, my profile crashed, the one I created don't. Tested like 5 times
When I start it, I can use it for maybe 5 minutes then the screen turn off and it shutdown
W
T
F
so tired of this
no crash report on restart. It's like it just shutdown
they copy my OS from last SSD, I think I gonna try to reinstall mac os
[doublepost=1496275436][/doublepost]no crash report on restart. It's like it just shutdown
they copy my OS from last SSD, I think I gonna try to reinstall mac os
[doublepost=1496277281][/doublepost]I created a new user just to eliminate software problems that could occurs
so far it's not shut downing
maybe cloning the harddrive maybe have **** up something on my profile.
Because they changed the logic board (so complete new computer), maybe I should reinstall Mac os to be sure to have something clean
what do you think ?
Edit : no doubt about it, my profile crashed, the one I created don't. Tested like 5 times
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