So I have to use my Dad's credit card, but he can't be there to sign for it

[LoneWolf121188]

So, funny story...I went to the apple store at 29th St today and talked to the manager, showed him the letter, and he basically said he would like to sell me the phone tomorrow, but there's some AT&T policy (NOT an apple policy) where the credit card holder has to be there...something about signing up or changing plans and credit checks or something. Anyway, I walked like 5 stores down the mall to the AT&T store and asked them, and guess what? He said it wouldn't be a problem at all. Looks like I'm headed there tomorrow morning.

 

[torid110]

As an avid reader of the consumerist, there have been discussions regarding the legality of asking for ID as a condition of accepting it for purchase, and according to Visa's merchant agreemen they cannot (i believe mastercard's agreement is similar):

Cardholder ID
Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID . Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder's personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt. P. 29, Visa Merchant Card Acceptance Policy


See this post:

http://consumerist.com/358464/apple...it-card-purchases-violates-merchant-agreement

 

[qawsed27]

I hate you and your company. Let me know what it is so I can never, ever shop there again.

The terms of service (TOS) for all 3 major credit card companies (Visa, MC, Amex) expressly prohibits a company asking for an ID at the time of purchase. This means that if a business wants to accept these credit cards, they may NOT ask for ID unless the back of the card is unsigned. Any business that do risk having their right to accept credit cards revoked by the credit card company.

The same goes for requiring a minimum purchase. We've all seen places that require a $5 or $10 purchase when using a credit card.

This doesn't stop businesses from doing it, but technically they are in violation of their contracts with the credit card companies. You are well within your rights to tell them to F off if they ask to see your ID. I am utterly shocked at some of the opinions about this. The credit card company assumes the risk - if someone is using your credit card fraudulently, you don't pay for it. The CC company does, and likely they'll force the merchant to prove that the signature matched at time of purchase.

I suppose you all bend over and let the choad at Best Buy search through your bag at the door after you buy something too? FYI, they have no right to do so. Costco and Sam's get away with it because they can pull your membership if you don't adhere to their policies. I swear some of you would let them do an anal probe at the checkout if the clerk told you it was mandatory.

 

[26139]

uh...

As an avid reader of the consumerist, there have been discussions regarding the legality of asking for ID as a condition of accepting it for purchase, and according to Visa's merchant agreemen they cannot (i believe mastercard's agreement is similar):

Cardholder ID
Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID . Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder's personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt. P. 29, Visa Merchant Card Acceptance Policy


See this post:

http://consumerist.com/358464/apple...it-card-purchases-violates-merchant-agreement

Asking for ID is a way to prevent fraud, dude. Low cost, easy to to do and fairly effective. What's the problem with it?

I'd much rather they do this than not.

 

[26139]

riiight...

The terms of service (TOS) for all 3 major credit card companies (Visa, MC, Amex) expressly prohibits a company asking for an ID at the time of purchase. This means that if a business wants to accept these credit cards, they may NOT ask for ID unless the back of the card is unsigned. Any business that do risk having their right to accept credit cards revoked by the credit card company.

The same goes for requiring a minimum purchase. We've all seen places that require a $5 or $10 purchase when using a credit card.

This doesn't stop businesses from doing it, but technically they are in violation of their contracts with the credit card companies. You are well within your rights to tell them to F off if they ask to see your ID. I am utterly shocked at some of the opinions about this. The credit card company assumes the risk - if someone is using your credit card fraudulently, you don't pay for it. The CC company does, and likely they'll force the merchant to prove that the signature matched at time of purchase.

I suppose you all bend over and let the choad at Best Buy search through your bag at the door after you buy something too? FYI, they have no right to do so. Costco and Sam's get away with it because they can pull your membership if you don't adhere to their policies. I swear some of you would let them do an anal probe at the checkout if the clerk told you it was mandatory.

I said nothing about it being against any TOC to do this. Not a damn thing.

Searching my bag and asking for ID to make a purchase are two entirely different things.

Asking for ID protects ME, not the store. It's a huge hassle if you card is used by someone else. With the expanding use of debit cards as credit cards, any purchases made come right out of your account. You might get your money back eventually, but what do you do until then? Ever had your credit card stolen and used by someone else?

 

[torid110]

Asking for ID is a way to prevent fraud, dude. Low cost, easy to to do and fairly effective. What's the problem with it?

I'd much rather they do this than not.

I totally agree with you and don't mind showing ID at all. The point of my post was to say that retailers can't make showing ID a requirement for making the sale. So they can ask for ID, but if the guy paying says "no", then they should still take it.

 

[gco212]

Most of you seem misinformed about this. As previously mentioned, all credit cards make it a part of their agreement that a store cannot require ID (most cards allow the store to ask for it, but not require it). This is actually a way to prevent fraud, as it is much more risky to have identity theft than Credit fraud. Handing someone your driver's license with your Driver ID Number, home address, etc... puts much more risk on you as the credit card companies will cover fraudulent charges for you. Basically, giving ID is more risk to you than not giving ID.

 

[Le Big Mac]

So, funny story...I went to the apple store at 29th St today and talked to the manager, showed him the letter, and he basically said he would like to sell me the phone tomorrow, but there's some AT&T policy (NOT an apple policy) where the credit card holder has to be there...something about signing up or changing plans and credit checks or something. Anyway, I walked like 5 stores down the mall to the AT&T store and asked them, and guess what? He said it wouldn't be a problem at all. Looks like I'm headed there tomorrow morning.

Let us know how it turned out.

If it didn't work, what about having your dad by a gift card for you?

 

[LoneWolf121188]

Let us know how it turned out.

If it didn't work, what about having your dad by a gift card for you?

But then the warranty wouldn't cover the phone, it would cover the gift card.

There was one person in front of me in line when they said they were out of 16GB phones. I guess I'll have to go again tomorrow.

 

[Jenheta]

"So I have to use my Dad's credit card, but he can't be there to sign for it"

For your father's own luck, it is good that you can not use his card.

 

[chrono1081]

This was probably already stated but I'll chime in anyway...

The photo ID checking thing is actually from the credit card companies not the stores. If the signature does not match the back or the name is not the same as the gender using the card the merchants agreement with the credit card company states that the merchant (or its employees) have to ask for a valid state, military ID, or passport. If none is producable the transaction is to be declined. What I just said was the sum of this huge agreement I had to read when working at circuit city awhile back. I had to read one of these for each credit card company so Im not sure where people are getting the information that you are not allowed to ask for photo ID because each of these agreements stated it.

That letter would draw extreme attention especially since its giving a number in another country. If you are young then you'll draw attention anyway. It all comes down to how much the cashier checks your ID. Back when I worked retail I always checked just because I knew what it was like to have a credit card number stolen so I wanted to ensure it happened to noone else.

 

[gco212]

This was probably already stated but I'll chime in anyway...

The photo ID checking thing is actually from the credit card companies not the stores. If the signature does not match the back or the name is not the same as the gender using the card the merchants agreement with the credit card company states that the merchant (or its employees) have to ask for a valid state, military ID, or passport. If none is producable the transaction is to be declined. What I just said was the sum of this huge agreement I had to read when working at circuit city awhile back. I had to read one of these for each credit card company so Im not sure where people are getting the information that you are not allowed to ask for photo ID because each of these agreements stated it.

That letter would draw extreme attention especially since its giving a number in another country. If you are young then you'll draw attention anyway. It all comes down to how much the cashier checks your ID. Back when I worked retail I always checked just because I knew what it was like to have a credit card number stolen so I wanted to ensure it happened to noone else.

Note that that is only if they are able to determine that the sigs aren't correct. Otherwise, it is illegal to require ID for a sale. If he forges a semi-passable signature, he's fine.

 

[CharlieKirk]

Visa has a rule saying no merchant can refuse to sell to someone if they don't want to show ID. And if they do, you can call visa and they will take care of it.

 

[Le Big Mac]

Visa has a rule saying no merchant can refuse to sell to someone if they don't want to show ID. And if they do, you can call visa and they will take care of it.

Of course, that doesn't help the OP much. "Yeah, Visa, I'm calling because the store wants an ID from me when I'm using my dad's card--could you tell them to take it?"

 

[gco212]

Of course, that doesn't help the OP much. "Yeah, Visa, I'm calling because the store wants an ID from me when I'm using my dad's card--could you tell them to take it?"

Or, hi Visa, I'm my dad and they won't take the card as they're requiring a photo ID which is completely illegal and against your policy. Here's my dad's SSN.

 

[JAQ]

So, funny story...I went to the apple store at 29th St today and talked to the manager, showed him the letter, and he basically said he would like to sell me the phone tomorrow, but there's some AT&T policy (NOT an apple policy) where the credit card holder has to be there...something about signing up or changing plans and credit checks or something. Anyway, I walked like 5 stores down the mall to the AT&T store and asked them, and guess what? He said it wouldn't be a problem at all. Looks like I'm headed there tomorrow morning.

The Apple manager is probably quoting the terms given to him by AT&T, and sticking to them because he doesn't have any authority to waive those rules. The folks at AT&T may feel they have more discretion to bend them.

 

[neiltc13]

Wasn't signing for purchases with a credit/debit card phased out two or three years ago?

 

[Umbongo]

Wasn't signing for purchases with a credit/debit card phased out two or three years ago?

In the UK for UK citizens.

 

[snberk103]

Terms of Use of the forum

Not to throw cold water on this interesting discussion, but a fair number of the suggestions are suggesting the OP commit a crime/fraud by a) forging a signature b) using someone else's CC.

Isn't inducing someone to commit a crime forbidden by the rules of the forum?

There is a solution:
The OP won't get the phone in the first week, but most CC companies allow the cardholder to add a "dependents" or "family" card (different cards, different names). But essentially the card is in the OP's name, and he gets to use it. But the CC number belongs to Dad, and the bills go to Dad.

Getting one is all dependent on Dad's credit rating - not OP's. With one of these the OP could walk into a store with his own CC (with extended warranty coverage) his own SSN, first born, etc, and get a phone. Won't be in the first week unless Dad has some clout with the CC company and gets them to expedite the secondary card.

To repeat. Using someone else's CC is forbidden by the CC companies, and if a store catches you and is in an ugly mood (as in dealing with irate iPhone buying addicts who have been up since 3am and now find they can't activate their iPhones) can call the police. Is a phone really that important?

 

[sine-nomine]

As others have pointed out, your best bet would be to ask your father to add you as an authorized user to the card. As an authorized user, you would be able to make purchases with the card, but you would not be able to call in and say add a product like payment protection to the account or initiate a dispute or make any changes to the account. The primary cardholder is responsible for any purchases an authorized user makes, so that's something to keep in mind. You wouldn't have to have plastics issued in your name to use your dad's card - the store will simply call in to confirm that you are an authorized user. When I worked at Capital One, I probably had ten calls every night that were either adding a user or verifying one for a store, so it's a very common thing to do. Just make sure that the extended warranty applies to purchases made by an authorized user, too.

 

[illidian]

To repeat. Using someone else's CC is forbidden by the CC companies, and if a store catches you and is in an ugly mood (as in dealing with irate iPhone buying addicts who have been up since 3am and now find they can't activate their iPhones) can call the police. Is a phone really that important?

He has the respective owner's permission. In writing.

Such a case has no hope in court.

 

[snberk103]

He has the respective owner's permission. In writing.

Such a case has no hope in court.

The CC company and the CC holder have a contract. If that contract specifically states that only the CC holder can use the card to make purchases, then it doesn't matter if there is letter from the CC holder. In the same way that a contract between a landlord and a tenant can specify that the tenant may not sub-let. (In this analogy the CC holder is the tenant, and son the sub-lettor).

Without actually reading this particular contract, we don't know what the CC company has or has not allowed. But in my experience, the CC company specifies only the CC holder can use the card.

People forget that the CC is not yours. It's the Credit Card company's property. They let you use it on their conditions.