So I moved to Linux

[cjsuk]

I do applaud the OP for making the move to Linux.

The 2 things keeping me from doing it:
- Very limited hardware options if you want to buy a machine with Linux preloaded and tested.
- None of the mainstream tax software (for individual US income tax prep) are available for Linux natively. Must either monkey around with WINE, VM, etc. and risk not having everything work (it's hard enough to get everything working on a supported OS given how buggy these tax apps are), or use cloud based tax prep (not yet ready to make that jump).

It takes a real commitment to move away from big tech. You really have to be willing to put up with a lot of pain. They have built heavy moats around their monopolies.

Yeah the tax software is horrid. Here in UK we can do it all online on government portal now. Very reliable and quick. Takes me about 30 minutes a year.

 

[MacBH928]

I am looking for alternatives for when I need to replace my SE 2022 since I cannot tolerate any of the new displays from Apple due to sensitivity to dithering and PWM.

what makes you think other manufacturers won't have the Apple display issue?

The first requirement (hard requirement) is that I need the phone+OS to come from one vendor. I don't want to deal with installing an independent OS on a Google phone.

GrapheneOS is working with Motorola (chinese one) to bring a preloaded GrapheneOS but they didn't announce a launch date. /e/ is the closest thing to what you want.

 

[MacBH928]

I do applaud the OP for making the move to Linux.

The 2 things keeping me from doing it:
- Very limited hardware options if you want to buy a machine with Linux preloaded and tested.
- None of the mainstream tax software (for individual US income tax prep) are available for Linux natively. Must either monkey around with WINE, VM, etc. and risk not having everything work (it's hard enough to get everything working on a supported OS given how buggy these tax apps are), or use cloud based tax prep (not yet ready to make that jump).

It takes a real commitment to move away from big tech. You really have to be willing to put up with a lot of pain. They have built heavy moats around their monopolies.

isn't all accounting software web SAAS apps? or mostly they are. unless as you pointed out there is a US gov. specific app to be used.

 

[maflynn]

I don't want to deal with installing an independent OS on a Google phone.

The second requirement (more of a desire) is that the OS be a bit more secure and less prying than standard Android

Your first requirement largely invalidates the second as google manages android. Your best bet is a pixel phone where you then install graphene

The other option which I feel is better is an iPhone

 

[ghanwani]

isn't all accounting software web SAAS apps? or mostly they are. unless as you pointed out there is a US gov. specific app to be used.

TurboTax and HR Block still offer standalone versions for Windows and macOS.

 

[ghanwani]

what makes you think other manufacturers won't have the Apple display issue?

GrapheneOS is working with Motorola (chinese one) to bring a preloaded GrapheneOS but they didn't announce a launch date. /e/ is the closest thing to what you want.

Nick Sutrich (https://www.youtube.com/@Gwanatu/videos) does testing of displays for PWM and temporal dithering. Samsung & Google and notorious for bad displays. Even Microsoft for Windows.

 

[maflynn]

isn't all accounting software web SAAS apps? or mostly they are. unless as you pointed out there is a US gov. specific app to be used.

Nope, at least not for the 2025 tax season. Intuit pushes their online package, but I still buy Turbo Tax for the Mac

 

[MysticTalisman]

Nope, at least not for the 2025 tax season. Intuit pushes their online package, but I still buy Turbo Tax for the Mac

Unfortunately Intuit still has not released an Apple Silicon desktop application and they only have 1 more year. Even if they released it today we would not have 3 tax years that would run on Apple Silicon when macOS 28 arrives. A bad situation all round.

 

[atarixle]

As many project still rely on Rosetta2, I only can hope for updates to arrive soon, or may be Apple gives one more year. Considering the performance that Rosetta2 runs even on the Neo, it would be a pity to bury that emulation layer. Intel Code on the Neo runs faster than on any of my Intel PCs and Macs (tho I do not own current Intel hardware, still it impresses me big time).

During the PowerPC-Intel-transition, Universal- and Intel-Apps arrived very suddenly. I remember some games offering a free Universal (Intel) upgrade for free.

 

[Skwoodge]

As many project still rely on Rosetta2, I only can hope for updates to arrive soon, or may be Apple gives one more year. Considering the performance that Rosetta2 runs even on the Neo, it would be a pity to bury that emulation layer. Intel Code on the Neo runs faster than on any of my Intel PCs and Macs (tho I do not own current Intel hardware, still it impresses me big time).

During the PowerPC-Intel-transition, Universal- and Intel-Apps arrived very suddenly. I remember some games offering a free Universal (Intel) upgrade for free.

macOS 27 will still have Rosetta support, but it will be limited in some ways, such as not being able to run Intel kernel extensions or virtual machines that emulate x86_64. How long they support Rosetta remains to be seen.

 

[bcortens]

Having read the OP I can't imagine anything worse 🤣



Precisely. And it's so much effort to achieve some kind of victory that seems built on so much mental gymnastics, at the expense of so many compromises and so much time wasted.

Even his friend could have bought a MacBook Neo or any second hand Apple silicon Mac that would have been price competitive. And wouldn't have put them through a whole bunch of nonsense changing platforms.

Just think of all the time wasted by Linux evangelists tricking the normal people in their lives into this sort of thing.

There are other concerns than time wasted. The fact that the US is acting like an imperial bully and most countries are just giving in to them (cough cough EU cough couch) is extremely frustrating.

Furthermore Apple, Google, and Microsoft are transforming into terrible companies who manipulate markets, crush competition with money rather than great products, and trap people in closed ecosystems. I would argue it is they who first tricked people into giving up all control of their own data to these unaccountable and unelected private oligarchs.

The dominance of US big tech undermines the ability of many countries to act independently and many of us want to get away from them. I am not going to throw out working tech (e-waste) but I'm not going to buy anything new Apple for as long as feasible, while buying AMD/Intel is still bad hopefully Mediatek or someone will eventually offer a laptop through a non-US manufacturer that lets us start to reduce dependency on the US.

 

[teh_hunterer]

There are other concerns than time wasted. The fact that the US is acting like an imperial bully

Mediatek or someone will eventually offer a laptop through a non-US manufacturer that lets us start to reduce dependency on the US.

Lol ok when you have to use geopolitics to justify using something that's worse, maybe that thing just isn't very good.

No thanks, I'll keep using my Apple ecosystem that's secure, useful, doesn't waste my time, and doesn't need an essay about how bad America is to make me feel better about using it.

Oh and dead easy customer service where the thing can get repaired or replaced quickly and easily if anything goes wrong.

And don't worry, I'm not American.

 

[bcortens]

Lol ok when you have to use geopolitics to justify using something that's worse, maybe that thing just isn't very good.

No thanks, I'll keep using my Apple ecosystem that's secure, useful, doesn't waste my time, and doesn't need an essay about how bad America is to make me feel better about using it.

Oh and dead easy customer service where the thing can get repaired or replaced quickly and easily if anything goes wrong.

And don't worry, I'm not American.

You think geopolitics don’t matter to your own buying habits that’s fine. You do you, but don’t pretend your concerns are universal or without consequence. Those of us do care about the endless descent into corporate oligarchy, US imperialism and US bullying think it is going to be bad for the long term rights of average citizens.

 

[teh_hunterer]

You think geopolitics don’t matter to your own buying habits that’s fine.

Yeah I don't let random online people's fringe politics dictate what devices I use. Never have, never will.

You do you, but don’t pretend your concerns are universal or without consequence. Those of us do care about the endless descent into corporate oligarchy, US imperialism and US bullying think it is going to be bad for the long term rights of average citizens.

Even if you browbeat 100 people into upending their tech to switch to Linux, it's still not going to be the year of the Linux desktop.

 

[Luftkopf]

Yeah I don't let random online people's fringe politics dictate what devices I use. Never have, never will.



Even if you browbeat 100 people into upending their tech to switch to Linux, it's still not going to be the year of the Linux desktop.

I’m sticking with Apple because they make the devices I want to use. I’ve done Linux before and it’s not for me. I’m happy with my choice. And geopolitics is actually something I do pay some attention to. I am in the process of removing as many U.S. products from my life as I can, there is just no viable alternative to Apple for me. So I respect those who follow their convictions.

 

[bcortens]

Yeah I don't let random online people's fringe politics dictate what devices I use. Never have, never will.

The notion that the US is behaving like a bully and imperialist is hardly fringe.

Even if you browbeat 100 people into upending their tech to switch to Linux, it's still not going to be the year of the Linux desktop.

That’s not the point really, the point is not personally supporting it - you came to this thread to argue that people were wasting their time moving to Linux and they should just stick to things that are “better”. People might have valid reasons for switching that you seem hell bent on painting as non-issues, for what reason I can only guess.

 

[cjsuk]

Quickish update on the original post.

I spent the last few days sorting out a completely failed iCloud / photos app sync issue with a friend. It just stopped working entirely. Absolutely no combination of supposed fixes works. This really validated my choices regarding taking stuff out of the cloud and moving to files first. I can’t really fix it. The best way of having no sync issues is having no sync.

Secondly, I did a few days away without any iCloud usage with an iPhone. It was fine. I copied any files I needed via LocalSync onto the iPhone and just used that. No issues. Notes still on paper. I have a small leuchtturm1917 notebook and Muji gel pen chucked in my bag. This is better than Apple notes. Unless I lose it. Some anxiety there but I was doing fine with this for at least 40 years before Apple Notes came into my life.

Found out some stuff in Keychain was not in my keepassxc database. It’s surprising how invasive that is. Gets in everywhere and sucks up everything without you realising it.

Also discovered hide my email was used by a number of accounts so had to untangle that. Disposed of some trash there too.

Last point is a final kick in the teeth for photography software. Lightroom was a ball and chain for me. £120 a year. Went on holiday and took photos in JPEG with my cheaper Nikon mirrorless camera and bottom end lens. Not a lot of difference to Lightroom processed RAW on the higher end one and expensive lens if you shoot manual and think more. Thinking more is a powerful tool. The software is a crutch.

I’m a little anxious about selling the hardware still so giving it another 3 months. This isn’t because I need it but because it’s quite expensive and getting rid of it in a market of idiots and con men is an issue. If it was a junk PC I’d shrug. Macs have a high pain amount if you sell them.

 

[teh_hunterer]

People might have valid reasons for switching that you seem hell bent on painting as non-issues, for what reason I can only guess.

"Hell bent" 🤣. You're the one who came in here to promote the bandwagon of the eurostack and keep talking about the US, don't project your own political stuff on to me:

The notion that the US is behaving like a bully and imperialist is hardly fringe.

I just see a pattern of people who get swept up into evangelising Linux as some kind of viable alternative for normal people who want to get things done and don't tinker with operating systems.

 

[capamac]

I just see a pattern of people who get swept up into evangelising Linux as some kind of viable alternative for normal people who want to get things done and don't tinker with operating systems.

I dunno ... I started with Apple II ... tinkering was sort of mandatory.

I was a kid, my parents bought the II. They also bought "Math Blaster" which is an edutainment game. But no actual games. So I learned to program in BASIC. BASIC became my "game" for a good long while until I could afford to buy games on my own.

Then later I got into MS-DOS, where again, tinkering was basically mandatory coz editing autoexec.bat and config.sys was required for some applications.

I consider myself lucky. Imagine if I were a kid in the iPad era: a vapidly stupid brain-dead OS to work with. You just push squares with your finger. No understanding of the computing device is required at all. All technical aspects abstracted away by the Muppet Babies-grade OS. Linux is positively refreshing in comparison.

 

[teh_hunterer]

I dunno ... I started with Apple II ... tinkering was sort of mandatory.

I was a kid, my parents bought the II. They also bought "Math Blaster" which is an edutainment game. But no actual games. So I learned to program in BASIC. BASIC became my "game" for a good long while until I could afford to buy games on my own.

Then later I got into MS-DOS, where again, tinkering was basically mandatory coz editing autoexec.bat and config.sys was required for some applications.

I don't discount any of your experiences - but when people try to transpose their hobby of operating system tinkering and FOSS ideals and politics on to people who just want tech to fit into their life instead of it being their life, I can't help but laugh.

I consider myself lucky. Imagine if I were a kid in the iPad era: a vapidly stupid brain-dead OS to work with. You just push squares with your finger. No understanding of the computing device is required at all. All technical aspects abstracted away by the Muppet Babies-grade OS. Linux is positively refreshing in comparison.

Sounds to me like the design of Linux is what's actually brain-dead. If you need a robust understanding of computing just to do basic stuff that another device can accomplish just by pushing squares with your finger, which one is better designed?

I like not having to have a deep understanding of my washing machine and dishwasher and vacuum cleaner as well.

Fiddling with your technology doesn't make you smarter than other people. There are plenty of people I've met in my life who struggle with tech and yet they're incredibly intelligent and successful in their fields.

Again, I get that setting up your computer to behave exactly how you want it is a valid hobby, and that computer is going to give you the most joy compared to other stuff. It's just not that way for most people.

 

[capamac]

MacOS and iOS are partly derived from BSD under the hood. BSD and Linux are both UNIX-like OSes. So macOS and iOS users are both using UNIX-like OSes as well. But they're working at a vastly more abstracted level. A level that requires minimal understanding. Especially iOS. So to say "Linux is bad" ... well iOS and macOS are quite similar to Linux. BSD, Linux and Apple's OS are all multi-user, all have protected memory, all have pre-emptive multitasking, all use virtual/protected memory, all use a similar core set of terminal commands.

One could theoretically replace macOS/iOS's core system with Linux along with Apple's APIs and system service and UI layer (just like KDE and Gnome etc can run as a desktop environment atop a Linux distribution) and the average non-technical user would be unable to tell the difference.

Have you ever seen a Mac boot in verbose mode? This is what iOS and macOS is, really:

Just like Linux.

 

[cjsuk]

I just see a pattern of people who get swept up into evangelising Linux as some kind of viable alternative for normal people who want to get things done and don't tinker with operating systems.

I think the default position in the technology sector is just ignorance rather than normal people being normal people.

Unfortunately even on the nicest ecosystem (Apple) there’s a bunch of nasty surprises waiting for those who remain ignorant.

The worst one I see regularly is “iCloud is my backup”. This fell flat on its back a number of years ago when someone desperately came to me after she managed to break her Mac irrecoverably (Apple rejected her at the store). She did not have an iPhone. Mac was “backed up” to iCloud. She couldn’t remember the login details or her email address. She lost everything. Including photos of her family.

Ergo understanding your technology and making sure you know how to get out of a pickle should be right up there.

Applies to any bit of technology not specifically Linux or Apple.

 

[teh_hunterer]

I think the default position in the technology sector is just ignorance rather than normal people being normal people.

Unfortunately even on the nicest ecosystem (Apple) there’s a bunch of nasty surprises waiting for those who remain ignorant.

The worst one I see regularly is “iCloud is my backup”. This fell flat on its back a number of years ago when someone desperately came to me after she managed to break her Mac irrecoverably (Apple rejected her at the store). She did not have an iPhone. Mac was “backed up” to iCloud. She couldn’t remember the login details or her email address. She lost everything. Including photos of her family.

Ergo understanding your technology and making sure you know how to get out of a pickle should be right up there.

Applies to any bit of technology not specifically Linux or Apple.

I can't really disagree with anything you've said here. But I wouldn't say the ways that Linux fails to be an OS for regular people is the failing of regular people either.

 

[popup]

From DistroWatch.com
Today's Opinion Poll:
What is the default shell of your main distro?

bash:	413 (23%)
csh:	2 (0%)
dash:	10 (1%)
fish:	33 (2%)
ksh:	8 (0%)
sh:	9 (0%)
tcsh:	2 (0%)
zsh:	30 (2%)
Other:	63 (3%)
I do not have a main distro:	3 (0%)
I do not know:	1257 (69%)

Almost 70% of the users do not know the default shell of their Linux distribution. The year of the Linux desktop has come...

 

[MacBH928]

I'd love to switch but I like my apps and can't live without them:

- iA Writer
- Apple Notes

- Procreate
- Sketchbook Pro

- RightFont
- Affinity Designer v2
- CaptureOne
- Eagle

- Things 3
- Excel


- Downie
- IINA
- ABetterFinderRenamer
- Text Soap

Yea, there is no linux for you. For some odd reason, albeit mac user base is small globally percentage wise, the amount of native apps is staggering. there is seriously an app for that and as a decades old mac user i still surprised to find niche apps still in development like textsoap that i never heard before about. Another head scratcher for me, all mac made apps look beautiful compared to linux. example of menu on linux app and mac app