So, is the Pro going to replace a Wacom?

Discussion in 'iPad' started by TSE, Sep 9, 2015.

?

Will this be able to replace a Cintiq?

  1. Yes

    15 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. No

    12 vote(s)
    44.4%
  1. TSE macrumors 68030

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    #1
    With the Apple pencil-iPad Pro combo, in terms of pressure sensitivity, understanding pen tilt, palm rejection, etc. is this thing going to eat a Wacom Cintiq's lunch AKA be able to totally replace it? Or will the Cintiq remain superior in terms of ability to draw accurately and with as many different pressures and angles?

    What's your best guess?
     
  2. Traverse macrumors 603

    Traverse

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  3. handsome pete macrumors 68000

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    #3
    The cintiq is also an input device for a much more powerful desktop. Not to mention there are cintiq models sunstantially larger than 12.9 inches.
     
  4. Robstevo macrumors 6502

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    Jun 7, 2014
    #4
    Not even close.

    For a start the pen needs charging, It's blue tooth and I'm gonna make a wild guess and say the sensitivity of the pen is not even close to a wacom.
     
  5. driftless macrumors demi-god

    driftless

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    #5
    It is sure going to make a dent given that Adobe has apps coming out specifically for the iPad PRO.
     
  6. whtrbt7 macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    I would say in the field, the iPad pro is going to be much more useful. On a workstation, the Intuos or Cintiq lines are great since they access full workstation apps. I would also mention that an iPad is still going to get the task done faster albeit sloppier. Wacom solutions probably will have a lot more pressure sensitivity as well as a floating gliding cursor for the workstation. Adobe apps however aren't too great right now compared to some other companies that have specialized apps to match to a workflow. The one app I'm interested in from Adobe will be the new Fix app but it remains to be seen how useful it will be in a workflow.
     
  7. MartinMiggs macrumors newbie

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    Sep 9, 2015
    #7
    It's hard to say until I actually get my hands on one. I have recently replaced an old 21" Cintiq with a 13" Cintiq companion. It runs windows which is a bummer, but I just use it for PhotoShop and Illustrator and use Dropbox to sync the files.

    But some nice things that the Cintiq has going for it, are the full blow Applications. They are pretty similar to Mac apps. And I installed Sharp Keys, so my Key commands would be the same as mac. It even works with a spare Apple BT Keyboard that I have lying around.

    The Screen has multi touch which works only when the nib of my stylus is more than about an inch away from the screen. I would hope that the iPad Pro does something similar, because it is so nice to throw the thing on your lap and use it as a sketch pad, resting your hand on it without accidentally triggering menus or drawing smudges.

    Another feature that the Cintiq has that the MS Surface tables didn't have, and the new iPad Pro will not have is a large bezel. I was wondering why the bezel was so large. My 13" Cintiq is as large as my 15" macbook pro. Turns out that is more awesome palm resting area.

    The cheaper Wacom drawing tables used to use skinny styluses -- Im guessing, similar in size to the apple pencil. But the Intuos style styluses are fatter and nicely weighted.

    All that said, I can't wait till one is in a local store so I can play with it.
     
  8. Chaos123x, Sep 9, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015

    Chaos123x macrumors 68000

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    #8
    Even if you use it with a app that controls your Mac you won't get the hover effect which will really put a damper on using it with a lot of apps. I'm thinking about getting a Cintiq Companion 2 or Hybrid but I want to see what this can do.

    Check this guys review out on the Astro Pad software.

     
  9. handsome pete macrumors 68000

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    #9
    I've found palm rejection to be pretty good on the Surface, so why the need for thicker bezels?
     
  10. thegreatdivorce macrumors regular

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    #10
    I don't see many people using the pen for 12 hour straight stretches. Use it for a few hours, let it charge a bit, use it again, etc.

    Your wild guess is just that, a wild guess. The sensitivity could be in line with a Wacom. My guess is the sensitivity will be "good enough" for most users. Full-time professional artists will likely still opt for the Cintiq, but more for the workstation apps than anything else, I'd say.
     
  11. mw360 macrumors 65816

    mw360

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    #11
    I say yes. I work in a creative industry, and I've only met one person who paid for a Cintiq, and he used it solely for illustration. Sure there's a 'real' computer behind that screen, but my impression is that the Cintiq hasn't gained much on other Wacom-friendly areas, such as 3D, Compositing, or Motion Graphics. So maybe a good Cintiq competitor only needs a drawing app.

    The Surface already has a much higher take-up, and will already have eaten way much of the curiosity about Cintiq. I've used a Cintiq and didn't like it, I know of many who bought a Surface and loved it. Their comments almost entirely revolved about the ability to draw and paint on it. I've heard people claim to have used Maya on a Surface, but not without anything other than delight that it runs at all. Like all serious apps, it's heavily dependant on keyboard hotkeys so IMHO, the experience can't be any good.

    iPad Pro can provide the painting (ProCreate is wonderful), but force innovation in other areas which have to date been dependent on the keyboard. It could be interesting.

    And I don't think it ends with the iPad Pro. Apple have been up to things in the background. Mavericks and Yosemite both degraded the Wacom experience and Wacom has been unable to respond. Likewise a sudden change to the iPad Air2 screen absolutely shafted Wacom's line of styluses. It's like Apple are gunning for Wacom for some reason.
     
  12. aevan macrumors 68000

    aevan

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    #12
    In what way have Mavericks and Yosemite degraded the Wacom experience? Both of them, including El Capitan, work perfectly with all Wacom tablets, including Cintiqs, and the "experience" is pretty great, actually.
     
  13. jmeas macrumors regular

    jmeas

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  14. aevan macrumors 68000

    aevan

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    #14
    While I have no idea how well the Pencil will work (and I'm excited about it, sure), as a long time Cintiq user, I can say with certainty that her comments on Cintiqs are pure rubish.
     
  15. jmeas macrumors regular

    jmeas

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    #15
    Which Cintiq do you use, aevan? I have a 13" model, and I can relate to a lot of what she said. My Cintiq is far dimmer than any monitor I've ever had, and the colors are way off compared to, say, my Macbook's retina display. I often have to pull my illustrations or designs over to my Macbook to see how it looks. I happen to have a >6 year old monitor that I bought for about $80 (which looks pretty bad, as you might expect), and it's comparable to, if not slightly better than, the Cintiq display. I can also relate to her complaints about the gap between the screen and the glass being noticeable.

    I know, I know...that comes across like an overwhelmingly negative review. And her post is even more scathing. I'm not a Cintiq hater – I do like some aspects of it. But I believe there's a considerable amount of room for improvement, and I'm hoping that Apple makes some headway in those areas.
     
  16. mw360 macrumors 65816

    mw360

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    #16
    There's a pretty huge thread on the Wacom support forum about it. Mavericks changed the way process scheduling worked, effectively denying the Wacom driver the high priority status it used to have, so when doing something which hogs the CPU like rendering for example, the Wacom becomes laggy and difficult to control, while cursor control via Apple mouse or trackpad remains unaffected. Yosemite did something else which make it difficult for Wacom to distinguish between clicks and drags. Some apps have become really difficult to use because of it. None of this is just my Mac. It's all of them in our workplace. I'll cross my fingers for El Cap.
     
  17. randyspellwyn macrumors newbie

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    Sep 10, 2015
    #17
    I guess maybe, though it'll depend on the person. I'm thinking that iPad Pro will be a great canvas outside of the workstation. I currently use a PC with a Wacom Intuos for my drawings, I was considering to get a new PC and a Cintiq 13HD next summer when going to college. But as it's obvious, it'll be quite expensive and I'm not willing to bring them all to dormitory. I was exactly waiting for this product and I was so psyched when they unveiled Apple Pencil. Like they've heard my prayings. And I have a slight thought that a file manager will eventually come to at least iPad Pro with iOS 10 or later. For now, iCloud Drive and Dropbox is enough for me.
     
  18. aevan macrumors 68000

    aevan

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    #18
    I use the Cintiq Companion 2 tethered to an iMac. I used a small terminal hack to force the Companion into retina mode (scale the UI) as it's ppi is just like on a Retina Mac (a 2560x1440 on a 13" screen gives 220 ppi which is exactly the same as a Retina MacBook or iMac). So, it's a retina screen.

    The colors are fine - of course, my iMac 5K screen simply looks better, no denying that. The colors on the Companion 2 are not bad, the accuracy is pretty decent and the screen looks quite nice to the eyes, even next to an iMac Retina. And it's great for work - I usually open a second window for the PSD I'm working on and put it on the iMac screen as well.

    There are certain annoying things with the Cintiq, I'll give you that. Wacom just doesn't have the resources (yet) to do the nice laminated screen of an iPad so there is a gap between the screen and pen. Also, their drivers tend to be buggy from time to time (even though they have a bundle of pro options that allow for some really good workflows).

    The reason her text is rubbish is the part where she says you can't control where the brush stroke ends on a Cintiq (of course you can, with a pixel-perfect precision, I'll explain a bit later) and where she has "all her express keys mapped to Undo - which is, quite frankly, ridiculous. The express keys are one of the best features of a Wacom tablet. But in them lies the difference - they are not "cool" and they require some muscle memory, but they quickly become indispensable when used correctly. Basically, she acts like a spoiled child. Even with her years of experience, she hasn't mastered her tools (I know a lot of people that simply have trouble with technology, and that is where Apple steps in and offers solutions that are never as powerful but always intuitive and 'magical'). As for the brush strokes, the Cintiqs use the 'hover' mode where you actually see the cursor on the screen, just as if you were using the mouse or an Intuos tablet. Every pro user knows you don't look at the TIP of the pen, you look at the cursor. With that in mind, the precision is - well - precise to a single pixel.

    So here's the thing - the Cintiq is just not as "cool" as an iPad Pro with a Pencil which, I can only imagine, works like magic. Numerous great technologies that only Apple can pull off have been combined into a great tool. I'm planning on getting the iPad Pro as well - even if I only use it for quick sketches or notes, because I'm into technology. But I'm still not sold on it replacing a Photoshop + Cintiq/Intuos combo for the whole workflow. I'm almost certain you can sketch on it in a way that feels amazing - but whether you can produce a full digital work like you can in photoshop, remains to be seen. It all depends on Procreate (a huge fan, and currently the only art app worthy of getting for iOS) being able to produce work better or same as Photoshop with the same speed or ease. And the very fact that makes Cintiqs uncool and seem more "digital" and imprecise to casual users - the fact that you see the pointer - is what I think will still keep it as king for certain types of work. At least for now.

    But I'm really excited about the Pencil and iPad Pro.
     
  19. aevan macrumors 68000

    aevan

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    #19
    First time I heard of this - but from my experience on my iMac 5K and MacBook Pro 15, this has never happened. I work with very large files, my workflows are very demanding and I am yet to experience any lag from a Wacom product. In fact - those very same Wacoms work much worse (and sometimes lag) on my two Windows 10 devices. In fact, my OS X experience with Wacoms have been nothing but amazing, on Mavericks, Yosemite and El Capitan - and quite a few of my illustrator friends agree. I'm really sorry you have problems, I'm truly not seeing any of them.
     
  20. mw360 macrumors 65816

    mw360

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    #20
    i can't compare to Windows, only to older OS X versions. Perhaps we'll see improvements when we next upgrade the OS and drivers.
     
  21. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #21
    What does the Cintiq do that the iPad Pro cannot?
     
  22. aevan macrumors 68000

    aevan

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    #22
    Well, it's really hard to say until we actually try the iPad Pro, but for one thing, Cintiq can run full Photoshop, Zbrush, etc. But here's one thing - Cintiq has side buttons on the stylus, those buttons and express keys can be customized per app and it also has the option to hover with the pointer over elements before applying pressure which ensures precision that will probably be difficult for the iPad Pro. But, we'll just have to see when iPad comed out.
     
  23. whtrbt7 macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    Astropad is ok but there is still lag between the iPad or iPhone and the computer in question. You also don't have a hover cursor on Astropad but they might have that ability when they have the iPad pro. They just sent me an email saying that they are updating their app to work better with the iPad pro. There is a decent amount of lag on Cintiqs that connect to computers but probably close to no lag on the companion devices which I haven't used yet since they are designed to run Windows and everything natively. The same lag applies to the intuos line and I think it's just due to how they are wired/utilized. Also touch controls get wonky on the Cintiqs too. The apple pencil with an iPad pro will be pixel accurate but is also designed to work with a lot less lag although there is still some lag (10ms or so). For working the field that's great but compared to the Wacom companions and the mod book pro, it's not going to run the x86/x64 apps and that will be one of the biggest differences. The mod book pro is too large and heavy for me in the field and the same is true for the Cintiq companion. I'm not really looking to do a full workflow like I would on a Mac Pro with Cintiq since that is extremely time consuming. For me, the iPad pro will be a solution but I can see how for many graphics people, it just won't be complete enough for their usual workflows. Again it's going to be a choice between portability and usage at a workstation.
     

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