So long sweet Leopard...hello Tiger...

Discussion in 'macOS' started by hardhatmac, Nov 21, 2007.

  1. hardhatmac macrumors regular

    hardhatmac

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Location:
    Utah
    #1
    Yep, after fighting to keep Leopard on my G5 quad, I've decided to go back to Tiger.

    I'm sad to see it go...I LOVE Leopard on my other 3 intel macs....but something about it on my G5 just didn't work...

    After fighting to get a working G5 after weeks (and yes, I mean weeks) of it being cripled with Leopard......I just couldn't take it.

    I first did a regular upgrade, then an archive and install, then an erase and install....then I even "zeroed" out both drives and did another clean install.....ran enough disc checks and repairs to drive a man crazy....ran every hardware check I could get my hands on....

    but I could never get rid of all the problems. After much, much troubleshooting, re-installing, backing up, calling tech support, posting on here, no could find anything wrong with hardware or software...

    So after much time and considerable money...I've decided to go back to when my system was working perfectly.....with Tiger.



    I hope to return to Leopard someday once it's been smoothed out...but I just can't afford the setback in workflow that I've had to fight through...


    So, so long Leopard...






    ps....I'm sure I'm going to get reemed for this thread...but I'm just not going to put anymore time into "fixing" a once flawless system...it only makes sence to get rid of what was causing the problems....and for me, that was Leopard...

    pps...in case your wondering, the majority of my problems were in all the apps in Final Cut studio
     
  2. giomla macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    #2
    Similar things with my PowerBook...I'm going back to Tiger too...
    Sad but true. In some moments with Leopard I felt like using Windows... I don't want that!
     
  3. tamvly macrumors 6502a

    tamvly

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    #3
    You won't get any grief from me ... my theory is that the majority of testing of Leopard was done on Intel Macs. As a whole I think Leopard is a big disappointment from a stability point of view.

    My G5 has experienced several kernel panics, but has settled down a bit with 10.5.1. Still, there are lots of remaining problems - Safari is probably the worst offender.

    Good luck with your transition. I'm telling my friends with PPC Macs to stay away for several months.

    - robin
     
  4. Thel macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Location:
    Indiana
    #4
    No reaming from here, either, hardhatmac...

    There may be comparatively few first generation PPC iMac G5s (like mine), which were only sold from August '04 through May '05, and I'd be willing to bet that no one bothered to extensively test Leopard with any of them. This model - a 1.8 GHz 17" M9250LL/A "Hero" - required a "Sleep Light Update," which is a power-related firmware update, and as it turns out, 10.5 seems to wreak some SERIOUS havoc with that code.

    I’m not a programmer, but am a fairly experienced MacHead (my first Mac was a Quadrasaurus 950 running System 7.1 in '94), so before installing Leopard, I spent several hours per day for three weeks perusing posts in Apple Discussions, here, and other forums, then I was VERY careful - spent 2 full days in prep, in fact - fully diagnosed/optimized/rediagnosed every internal and external HD volume (all APM and HFS Extended), which were perfect (as always); cloned fresh backups; removed my eDrive; uninstalled both DiskWarrior and TechTool Pro from ALL of my volumes; then did an absolutely clean 10.5 install on a freshly zero’d partition (the 1st internal).

    No installation problems; Leopard setup completed and it seemed to fly fine; I was up all night config’ing the iApps from scratch (resetting prefs etc.), doing a fresh Mail.app setup, running Disk Utility (the *only* diagnostic I had on hand at that point, of course), and so on; finally shut ‘er down to grab some Zs; then after I woke up, all hell broke loose, as the saying goes.

    Pressed the power button; no light, no chime, nada. Dead as the proverbial doornail. The *only* way iMacster would boot at all - even play the chime and TRY to start up! - was if I held the power button in for 10-12 seconds to reset the Power Manager, and it would also make a loud :::beeeeep::: before it would chime - *exactly* the same sound the iMac had made when I first applied the Sleep Light Update (months ago). Then it would begin to boot but, though there was never a kernel panic, the gray-screen gear would usually just sit there, roll-roll-rolling forever. (One time I waited for 40 minutes, and still no joy.) The times that it DID start up, once the desktop finally loaded completely, everything worked A-OK system/Finder and apps-wise. Totally bizarre.

    At first, when I ran 10.5’s Disk Utility, it claimed everything was fine (all volumes verified, no permissions needed to be fixed), but it also tossed up a box saying "updating boot blocks" every time I quit it - I wondered why the ^*$% it would need to keep doing that?! - and over the next few days (through the repeated forced boot/beep startups and hopes that everything would eventually load) it kept getting worse....

    My third internal partition suddenly, completely disappeared - contained nuttin’ honey and was even renamed its disk ID number! - then DU started reporting that the second partition (my formerly intact and perfectly working Tigger 10.4.10 volume) could not even be dismounted for testing. (Of course, I could no longer use DiskWarrior nor TechTool Pro to track any problems down. :::grrr::: )

    Hardware tests continued to report no problems and, after a decade+ of being able to suss what’s amiss on my Macs, I was going absotively crazy trying to figure out what was happening this time!

    Finally, praying that this was NOT a sudden power-related hardware failure (which Leo’s higher demands may have simply brought to light) - since my AppleCare coverage expires on December 2nd, the nearest Apple Store is 55 miles away, and I no longer have a car - I threw in the towel, started up from my Tiger install DVD, zero’d out the Leopard partition, installed 10.4, did the 10.4.11 Combo, Java and other updates, reinstalled DiskWarrior - which, luckily, was able to fix my volume headers and other assorted problems that had not existed before - and lo & behold, lil iMacster is suddenly and oh so sweetly starting right up (in only 15 seconds!) and purring like a kitten. ::::whew:::: Close call, there.... This has been The Week From Digital Hell - but [hopefully] it’s over.

    So-o-o-o, in a Macadamia nutshell, my best guess re: the whole mess at this point is that, with Leo up & rolling, my iMac’s firmware update was having to be reapplied EVERY freakin' time I tried to start up; then EVERY time I ran 10.5’s Disk Utility again afterward - to make sure everything was still OK [huge-antic *LOL* on Thel!] - it was actually *BREAKING* it again. :mad:

    I am, therefore, the formerly-proud owner of a shiny new Mac OS 10.5 install coaster (which cost this widow-on-a-fixed-income the equivalent of an entire month’s food budget) that I will *never* be able to use unless this critical issue is fixed.

    NOT bursting with fruit flavor here..... :(

    (On edit: Yes, I have sent the above to Apple Feedback.)
     
  5. seafrog macrumors newbie

    seafrog

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Location:
    Bellevue
    #5
    i am severely disappointed with Leopard

    I agree with the poster here regarding Leopard is like Windows. I had BSOD on my G4 powerbook, dual g5 BSOD (archive and install worked), my wife's core duo imac upgrade was smooth but the latest patch seems to have deleted her user accounts.

    My G5 is slow and seems to crash with the fans at full speed. I am afraid it will spontaneously self combust anytime and I am afraid to let it run through the night. I get annoying popus stating that some apps are trying to access the internet (even after changing the firewall settings).

    Feels like Vista. I will downgrade to Tiger once I complete my non-timemachine backup. For all the teasing of Vista on their TV ads, i expected better.
    :mad:
     
  6. Stormyguy macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Location:
    UK (Sussex)
    #6
    Hi seafrog
    Funny you mention the fans..... I cant get past that with the Leopard upgrade DVD.....
    I posted the following in another thread but it seems relevant here too.... I think I'll give Leopard a miss for now!!!

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Well my Powermac G5 Dual 2.7 will read the Leopard upgrade DVD but when I restart to commence the install proper - nothing, just a grey screen with the li'l apple logo and one whole load of disc reading noises and the fans just go NUTS - thought my apartment would take off at any moment lol !

    Checked a normal movie DVD - all good - and threw the Leo DVD into my Powerbook G4 - read it fine and got to the next stage no problem (although that's on Panther so couldnt go any further).

    Should I put the DVD in the PowerBook, connect with firewire and start in target mode and attempt to upgrade my G5 from there?? The drive on my G5 doesn't seem to like that disc much!

    Danny
     
  7. Flyyvon macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    #7
    Got i tought i was the only one !!!!! Apple even made me beleive that i had hardware problems. My G5 Quad is at Apple as i write these lines. I also had Kernel Panics after the fans went like crazy and ALL my apps. keeps on freezing. See my thread:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=389731

    Did you also hear a clicking sound that came from you tower? I did a few archives and install but never erase and install and i was thinking of doing this as soon as my G5 is back. Maybe it a way Apple is using to force us to spend more money and buy a Macpro???
    I'm also going back to my very stable Tiger. I wish someone that is using Leopard on a Powermac G5 Quad with succes would convince me to try to stay with Leopard.
    Yvon.
     
  8. Stormyguy macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Location:
    UK (Sussex)
    #8
    I didn't get any clicking noises - a lot of 'disc-reading' noises like it was attempting to get started but failing. Remember, I can't even get Leopard ON to the G5 because of that so I have no post-installation comments!

    I've never heard the fans blasting away like that - real strange and I knew it wasn't right - for a while I assumed it was doing something but once those beasts were howling like a tornado coming through I figured it was time to quit.....

    Fortunately Tiger is still there and I think the system is unscathed but it really didn't inspire a lot of confidence I have to say!

    When I popped the DVD in the old G4 PowerBook we were off and at the races no problem. I didn't (couldn't) proceed with the install as I'm still on 10.3 on that machine BUT it did prove that the installation shouldn't 'hang' after restarting and before commencing the actual upgrade and that the install DVD itself is highly unlikely to be dodgy.
     
  9. hardhatmac thread starter macrumors regular

    hardhatmac

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Location:
    Utah
    #9
    boy oh boy.....every time those fans would kick into hyper drive, my heart would sink a little bit......I agree and totally thought that she was going to burst into flames.

    I NEVER heard her fans kick on like that before Leopard....I'm pretty sure that when I zero'd the drives and did a clean install that problem went away......but, she was still consumed with other problems so I might not have tested the fans very well...


    just for the record...she's the latest edition G5 quad 2.5 Ghz, 6.5 gb ram, bought it weeks before the first Macpro came out...
     
  10. EMKoper macrumors regular

    EMKoper

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2002
    Location:
    Stafford, VA
    #10
    Leopard install was "on par" with VISTA upgrade!

    Well, I had a "horrible" install process (Archive and Install was my method... and some utilities didn't install after upgrade) on my G4 PowerMac that I almost 'gave up' and was going to "go to the mattresses" with apple to get my money back ... the upgrade process, glitches, hung processes, restarts, etc upgrading from Tiger to Leopard was absolutely on-par with the glitches/goofs during my upgrade from XP to VISTA on my Dell laptop in the May-June timeframe (but those windows issues were expected... I didn't expect anything like this from Apple!). Apple's #1 suggestion from the Apple Care folks was to 'try installing from your other CD ROM. drive..." thanks! Tried that... it just hung at a different part of the process (hung = showed no progress over 6+ hours!)

    In my eyes, Apple has gone down a notch lately in quality (they must be more focused on quantity at the moment--it is their decision, delay OS X for iPhone, etc, probably put their best people/effort on the 'new market' rather than core product giving the core users the 'shaft' this time around. Also, evidence is some of the 'poor' UI decisions in Leopard ... like the hardly ocularly noticeable 'glowing dot' below the app icon in the dock to indicate app is running) ... So, three things: this upgrade, glitches with a iPod, DRM issues every time I upgrade my iTunes (an odd 're allocating' of my DRM'd music to a different account than they were actually purchased under and apple says "that's weird" and cannot explain it -- it is their system, it must be too big for them to manage coherently if they cannot explain what 'their system' is doing any why, which scares me in the future one day when all my music stops working and they don't know what to do to fix it)...

    I know, it seems most or a vast majority of folks don't have any issues with any of these... but I am using 'stock' apple hardware in every case (G4 and iPods) and this is the first time I've experienced any 'real' issues with apple products, hardware, software and all in the past 6 months (Apple ... starting the slow spiral downward? Maybe!)

    All that being said... I have leopard running fine now... no thanks to apple but mostly from forms and such providing hints, helpers, pointers, etc... got everything running expect VISTA printer sharing right now... so apple has at least one more chance with me... (and I have had no stability issues with the OS... )
     
  11. Flyyvon macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    #11
    Mine is also the latest version just B4 tha Macpro and is still being verified by Apple. Also never heard the fans kick in like that B4 Leopard. Even when rendering a movie in Final Cut Pro and all the processors where working at 100%.

    Yvon.
     
  12. Stormyguy macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Location:
    UK (Sussex)
    #12
    Yeah I second that - even rendering in iMovie/Final Cut or PS intense actions I NEVER heard a noise like that from the fans.

    As mentioned previously I can't even get the upgrade process to begin so for the time being Tiger it shall be.
     
  13. seafrog macrumors newbie

    seafrog

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Location:
    Bellevue
    #13
    Hi Stormyguy
    I had the problem initially but repeated tries worked for me. I had upgraded my G5's combo drive to a superdrive and maybe that helped.

    I think the days of rogue applications running in protected memory space and not screwing with the OS is over. If you have Divx, shapeshifter or any apps that use APE, the best option is a brand new install.

    Hope things work for you. I feel your pain :)




     
  14. samuraikiss macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    #14
    I installed Leopard three weeks ago and have been experiencing similar problems! I thought I was the only one. Whenever I turn my MacBook on or off, the fans blast for a good minute. I thought it might spontaneously combust. I started with an upgrade, but that was worse, so I erased my hard drive and tried again.
     
  15. DakotaGuy macrumors 68040

    DakotaGuy

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Location:
    South Dakota, USA
    #15
    I don't think Leopard was developed with the PowerPC in mind. It was developed for Intel machines with very little effort put into making it work on PowerPC. With that said, even on my Intel Mac, Safari likes to crash on a regular basis so it might not just be your computers.
     
  16. stever105 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    #16
    macbook and leopard

    i put leopard on my daughters new macbook...she likes leopard but says it freezes up now and then....and a little laggy compared to tiger...is this machine best suited for tiger....thanx
    stever
     

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