So that's a firm no on the filesystem?

[ashindnile]

I know it's only a week away, but if Apple were to implement a common file system on iOS 10, would we not have heard anything about it by now?
Especially given how secretive Apple has(not) managed to be in the past few years..
What do you think?

Edit: For those of you who don't seem to understand what this thread is about.

 

[M. Gustave]

I know it's only a week away, but if Apple were to implement a native file system on iOS 10, would we not have heard anything about it by now?
Especially given how secretive Apple has(not) managed to be in the past few years..
What do you think?

Their market research discovered that bloated old-fashioned desktop operating systems already exist.

 

[oldmacs]

I know it's only a week away, but if Apple were to implement a native file system on iOS 10, would we not have heard anything about it by now?
Especially given how secretive Apple has(not) managed to be in the past few years..
What do you think?

Software features are much easier to keep secret. Plenty of iOS features have been unknown to us over the years. I have my fingers crossed for iCloud Drive to be used as the basis for a much better file management system in iOS.

 

[ashindnile]

Their market research discovered that bloated old-fashioned desktop operating systems already exist.

I can think of many ways Sandboxing and CFS can work together. If they're really positioning their iPads as pc replacements, they should figure it out.

 

[oldmacs]

I can think of many ways Sandboxing and CFS can work together. If they're really positioning their iPads as pc replacements, they should figure it out.

I agree - I think the answer lies in making the iCloud Drive app into a file management system. Apple positions the iPad Pro as the ideal replacement for all those old PCs. People with those 'old Pcs' are the sort of people who are my clients - they often find the simplicity of the iPad's current solutions for file management so simple that it is actually complex. I was trying to teach one how to keep office files updated between an iPad and a PC, and they were completely competent at file management on a PC, but the jumping through hoops to do the same thing on an iPad put them right off.

I'm not calling for access to system files as that would be a disaster, but more like just having a good way to manage 'a folder' like a my documents folder that has no connection to the file system itself. Like a locally stored, more flexible and useful, iCloud drive - it could probably be turned off by default.

 

[M. Gustave]

I was trying to teach one how to keep office files updated between an iPad and a PC, and they were completely component at file management on a PC, but the jumping through hoops to do the same thing on an iPad put them right off.

There are no 'hoops'. MS Office files saved to my OneDrive open seamlessly on the pc or on my iPhone. I see updates on either one right away.

 

[ashindnile]

Precisely. And files that aren't protected by DRM should automatically go to the common folders. The others can stay sandboxed.
Shouldn't have to duplicate a file multiple times just to be able to access externally.

 

[oldmacs]

There are no 'hoops'. MS Office files saved to my OneDrive open seamlessly on the pc or on my iPhone. I see updates on either one right away.

What if the said client doesn't want to use OneDrive? What if they want to use iCloud Drive for other applications, making using two different programs annoying. For example, he has a work file, with a combination of PDF documents, Word documents etc, doesn't want to keep the word documents separate to the PDFs, because that would be pointless.

 

[M. Gustave]

I can think of many ways Sandboxing and CFS can work together. If they're really positioning their iPads as pc replacements, they should figure it out.

"PC replacement" doesn't mean replicating the pc on an iPad form factor (unless your name is Microsoft). The automobile was 'positioned' as a "horse replacement" without consuming hay and oats, and having saddles and bridle tack.

Both require an adjustment of user behavior and mindset.

 

[ashindnile]

"PC replacement" doesn't mean replicating the pc on an iPad form factor (unless your name is Microsoft). The automobile was 'positioned' as a "horse replacement" without consuming hay and oats, and having saddles and bridle tack.

Both require an adjustment of user behavior and mindset.

Totally lost it on Microsoft
But cars were faster and more comfortable.
iPads are neither. It's hard to do the most basic things that a pc can do in no time. And this is in no small part due to the file system.
I don't want another windows RT, God no. But an android like file system would be fantastic.

 

[M. Gustave]

What if the said client doesn't want to use OneDrive? What if they want to use iCloud Drive for other applications, making using two different programs annoying.

Talk to Microsoft. They won't allow iCloud as a choice for Office. In the meantime, OneDrive is free, it came with your pc.

For example, he has a work file, with a combination of PDF documents, Word documents etc, doesn't want to keep the word documents separate to the PDFs, because that would be pointless.

I really have no idea why you think this isn't possible on an iPad or iPhone. In Google Drive or OneDrive you can store all your files however you like, and open them from your pc or other devices.

 

[bensisko]

Totally lost it on Microsoft
But cars were faster and more comfortable.
iPads are neither. It's hard to do the most basic things that a pc can do in no time. And this is in no small part due to the file system.
I don't want another windows RT, God no. But an android like file system would be fantastic.

Then it's a good thing Android exists!

I'll never understand the "Man, I love these features on Android! I wish iOS was more like Android!"
I'm not faulting anyone for liking Android - I'm faulting people for wanting iOS to be an Android clone.

 

[ashindnile]

You misunderstand. I wouldn't use iOS if it was an android clone. But that's not to say they couldn't benefit from stealing each other's features.
I don't think you complained when iOS 8 brought custom keyboards.
Android N is basically a rip off of iOS 8+9
All I suggested was a good implementation.
Some features are essential, as operating systems get more and more capable. And a common file system is fundamental to a multitasking operating system, especially a 'PC replacement'.
I hope you understand now.

 

[bensisko]

You misunderstand. I wouldn't use iOS if it was an android clone. But that's not to say they couldn't benefit from stealing each other's features.
I don't think you complained when iOS 8 brought custom keyboards.
Android N is basically a rip off of iOS 8+9
All I suggested was a good implementation.
Some features are essential, as operating systems get more and more capable. And a common file system is fundamental to a multitasking operating system, especially a 'PC replacement'.
I hope you understand now.

I've never used, nor cared about (or even knew anyone that cared about) custom keyboards.

There's a lot of Android features I'm glad iOS doesn't have and a file system is one of them. I think it's an outdated concept - I HATE having to worry about how I orgainize my files and I happen to like how iOS currently does it. I certainly don't think it's 'essential' just because it's getting more capable.

 

[ashindnile]

I've never used, nor cared about (or even knew anyone that cared about) custom keyboards.

There's a lot of Android features I'm glad iOS doesn't have and a file system is one of them. I think it's an outdated concept - I HATE having to worry about how I orgainize my files and I happen to like how iOS currently does it. I certainly don't think it's 'essential' just because it's getting more capable.

You clearly don't know many people. It's NOT outdated. And you can implement it in a more organized manner.
The file system can be read only by default. It's important that there isn't any data duplication, if you're going to do any productive work, given that iOS is storage restricted.
It can also be a read/write file system, so you can add custom animations to a keynote presentation and be able to view them back in the keynote app, for example.
To avoid a mess, and keep it organized, Apple can prevent User Write, and only enable Application write. Apps can ensure the files are being saved sensibly.
I'm sure Apple is more than capable of figuring this out, and frankly it's their job.

 

[Abazigal]

I know it's only a week away, but if Apple were to implement a native file system on iOS 10, would we not have heard anything about it by now?
Especially given how secretive Apple has(not) managed to be in the past few years..
What do you think?

Right now, there is Documents if you want a makeshift file manager.

That said, I don't think Apple will implement a file manager. Or at least, if they do, I doubt it will be anything like the file managers we currently have in Windows. Right now, I actually like having my files segmented by apps (eg: pdfs in notability). Makes it easier to access them than having to delve into a deep hierarchical subfolder menu.

The only thing I miss on my iPad is a downloads folder, which Documents is filling in nicely for me.

 

[vertsix]

Nope. Never.

It's what distinguishes Android from iOS.

Freedom vs. no freedom.

 

[dmnc]

So...a more capable version of iCloud Drive? Why not using Google Drive then? You can have your files synced and organized as you want. That's it.
Why do people insist on calling it a "file system"? Of course iOS has a filesystem. You can't access it though, and for good reason.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

File manager. Not file system. Fiiiiile manager.

Of course iOS has a file system.

FILE MANAGER.

 

[ashindnile]

So...a more capable version of iCloud Drive? Why not using Google Drive then? You can have your files synced and organized as you want. That's it.
Why do people insist on calling it a "file system"? Of course iOS has a filesystem. You can't access it though, and for good reason.

A common file system. I didn't think I needed to add that in the title, although I've been quite specific otherwise. I'm not asking to want to access it. I've explained it all in my comments above.
As for Google Drive, I don't need an online storage solution. And for the record I don't have a problem having to sync with iTunes, but seeing as apple allows non DRM music anyways, they might as well allow us to add our own tracks and ringtones.
As it currently stands, to make a Photoshop edit I have to load up the picture into photoshop, make my edits, save to camera roll, then delete the original. (The app doesn't support photo extensions) and other apps don't support extensions at all.

File manager. Not file system. Fiiiiile manager.

Of course iOS has a file system.

FILE MANAGER.

There are many file managers. They don't do anything about the data duplication problem.
For example, Movie player apps should be able to use the Document Picker API to fetch a movie from one of these said file managers, without having to copy the the file into their own sandboxes, thereby creating a second copy.

 

[stooovie]

Their market research discovered that bloated old-fashioned desktop operating systems already exist.

That's true, but the problem is that current implementation of inter-operability is crude, confusing and bloated in itself. Trying to keep users from intricate file system, they force us through insane hoops and workarounds. It's not easier (it is in some aspects), it's just a different kind of abstraction. Not ideal. The problem is far from solved.

 

[dmnc]

A common file system. I didn't think I needed to add that in the title, although I've been quite specific otherwise. I'm not asking to want to access it. I've explained it all in my comments above.
As for Google Drive, I don't need an online storage solution. And for the record I don't have a problem having to sync with iTunes, but seeing as apple allows non DRM music anyways, they might as well allow us to add our own tracks and ringtones.
As it currently stands, to make a Photoshop edit I have to load up the picture into photoshop, make my edits, save to camera roll, then delete the original. (The app doesn't support photo extensions) and other apps don't support extensions at all.


There are many file managers. They don't do anything about the data duplication problem.
For example, Movie player apps should be able to use the Document Picker API to fetch a movie from one of these said file managers, without having to copy the the file into their own sandboxes, thereby creating a second copy.

Ok, now I understand...you want to grant apps access to a common part of the file system. You needed to add that because people would understand completely different things. Access to a /home directory in the file system is not allowed for security reasons. That's how sandboxing works, sadly. Maybe you can be given the option to "trust" certain applications (not likely), or make Apple to certificate extensions developers make to be sure they are safe and to address the kind of problems you're posting about. As to permitting all apps to access /home, I don't think that would happen.

 

[ashindnile]

Ok, now I understand...you want to grant apps access to a common part of the file system. You needed to add that because people would understand completely different things. Access to a /home directory in the file system is not allowed for security reasons. That's how sandboxing works, sadly. Maybe you can be given the option to "trust" certain applications (not likely), or make Apple to certificate extensions developers make to be sure they are safe and to address the kind of problems you're posting about. As to permitting all apps to access /home, I don't think that would happen.

Lol not even android allows root access, so that's definitely not what I'm looking for. If you'd read my other comments, you'd have know.. My bad!

 

[dmnc]

Lol not even android allows root access, so that's definitely not what I'm looking for. If you'd read my other comments, you'd have know.. My bad!

You don't need root access to access /home...in any system.

EDIT: And I read your other comments and I'm trying to discuss the matter, so why do you try to turn this in a hostile argument? Are you ten years old?

 

[ashindnile]

You don't need root access to access /home...

Android doesn't allow it nonetheless, unless you have root access. Yes, technically it is linux, but that wasn't the reference I was making.