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So What WOULD the Dream Apple Gaming Comptuer Be?

filthandfury said:
If a chip runs stable @ 4ghz, why wouldnt apple or intel sell them at that?
Apple and intel prefer to makes less money and sell slower computers?
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everything that is engineered and sold to the public has a ridiculous safety margin.

although, that said, i wouldn't try overclocking that chip that much unless i was in an air conditioned room with about a foot of clear space around the box on each side



As for a mac gaming box...i would LOVE a last gen MBP rather than MB in the Mac Mini...unfortunately that would make it like the iMac🙁
 
filthandfury said:
I still would say processor speed is way down the list for mac gaming bottlenecks;
I would put coding quality/quanity first;
macmini/macbook videocards being second
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True, Apple should also work on getting Crossfire/SLI support in OS X. Oh and offer high end graphics solutions (8800M GTX SLI on iMac please), and on the lower end utilize better chips (8400M on the Macbook/Mini/Air please).
 
I don't think we should expect to much more from the iMac video cards; I think those cards are more then adequate for the imac market; and they have come a long way (I have fond memories of buying an aftermarke voodo2 3dfx chip designed to fit in my rev.a. imac. good times 😎)

MBP now ships with up to a 512 card; which i think is really nice for a laptop.

More compatibillity and variety for the Towers would be nice.
 
Dont Hurt Me said:
Your mistaken people are playing all kinds of games on iMacs and I would like to know if you bought a base iMac??? New iMacs are playing any game thrown at it. The Only thing Apple would have to do is have a full video card in iMac. iMac has grown into a terrific machine in my view and the 2600 is more then adequate for 99% of the games made today. Anyways I guess my dream machine would simply be an iMac with a replaceable GPU.
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Sure, people are playing all kinds of games on an iMac... I just can't think of a single current one that runs natively on OS X. I would have to disagree that the new iMac can play anything thrown at it...I have a top of the line iMac and that's just not the case. I work in the gaming industry so maybe I expect my games to perform better than you would, but if I need to turn off all of the settings and set my game to the lowest resolution and hope for 10 fps...that's just not even worth the time.

Not hating on macs (I've been using them for two decades now...) but just being realistic. Yea, an upgradeable GPU would be great.

Here is a list of OS X compatible games: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mac_OS_X_games
Obviously there are games for the Mac, all of the ones I'd like to play though aren't available without running Windows.
 
How about, instead of introducing a whole new line of Mac's, they just revise either/both the Mac Mini's or the iMac's with a variant model specifically for user-replaceable graphics cards and faster processor speeds? That way, they could market that model towards "gamers". They could still "milk upgrades" for other models, and (though it might not saturate the gaming market) it could be a start to giving Mac users a few more options. Makes sense, right?
 
We are going to see more games come to the mac, and sooner, because of transcider and Apple's growing market share. With the new revenue and larger user base, gaming companies are going to see more promise in the mac as a viable platform. Apple will probably respond with faster cards or at the least more options. But remember, Apple still it's own agenda. Steve will not sacrifice noise (or lack of it) for speed, and I don't expect him to any time soon.

I have a 2600xt iMac and it plays everything at medium high. FSX no problem, same with my other games. The 2600 cards are way under-rated, and they get better with each driver release. Oh yeah. 😀
 
um.. make OS X able to run games. Have Apple actually work with game developers instead of ignoring them like they are reported to.

I'd much rather have a good gaming platform with older hardware then amazing hardware with nothing to make use of it.
 
Fast!!!

my dream apple gaming machine would be:
case: apple mac pro case (its one of the sturdiest cases that keeps the components cool.)
motherboard: NVIDIA 790i Ultra
processor: Intel QX9650 @ 3.0 GZ over clocked to 3.8 GZ
Video Card: Two over clocked NVIDIA 9800 GX2 running in quad SLI
RAM: 8 GB DDR3 PC3-14400 Dual Channel (2048 x 4)
Sound Card:Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro sound card
Hard Drive: Raid 0 Western Digital Raptor 150 GB x 4 (600 GB)
Power Supply: ABS Tagan BZ Series EPS12V 1300W Power Supply
Sony Internal Blu-ray Disc™ Rewritable Drive
liquid cooling on cpu to allow for extreme crawzy over clocking!
hmmm i think thats all!:apple:
 
filthandfury said:
before talking about a uber leet mac gaming system; maybe we should talk about os x eating performance. bottom line if u boot ur untel mac into windows; ur games will run faster 🙁
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Er, no. OSX isn't the problem. The main issue is the crappy ports that Mac's are subjected to, followed by less than optimal video drivers.
 
Battlefield Fan said:
my dream apple gaming machine would be:
case: apple mac pro case (its one of the sturdiest cases that keeps the components cool.)
motherboard: NVIDIA 790i Ultra
processor: Intel QX9650 @ 3.0 GZ over clocked to 3.8 GZ
Video Card: Two over clocked NVIDIA 9800 GX2 running in quad SLI
RAM: 8 GB DDR3 PC3-14400 Dual Channel (2048 x 4)
Sound Card:Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro sound card
Hard Drive: Raid 0 Western Digital Raptor 150 GB x 4 (600 GB)
Power Supply: ABS Tagan BZ Series EPS12V 1300W Power Supply
Sony Internal Blu-ray Disc™ Rewritable Drive
liquid cooling on cpu to allow for extreme crawzy over clocking!
hmmm i think thats all!:apple:
Click to expand...
That would be a pretty sweet rig! I personally would drop the X-Fi and put in an Auzen X-plosion 7.1. True DTS/DDL encoder (and by that I mean it can create true bitstream surround sound from any source). I would also drop the liquid cooling and go to phase change cooling. Maybe LN2. A subzero CPU is a happy CPU.
 
I'm just going to reiterate the two biggest problems with Mac gaming, since some people still don't seem to get it:

1) Crappy ports
2) Tired GPU

CPU is not the problem. OS X is not the problem. The first and foremost problem is that too many games for OS X are badly done ports that just aren't very well optimized for it. Any game that's as optimized for OS X as most games are optimized for Windows will run absolutely beautifully on a Mac. Try out any open source games that are natively OpenGL and you'll see what I mean. The second problem is the subpar graphics cards in the consumer Macs. Many times, these would suffice if the game was well-made for a Mac (such games run well even on my MacBook w/ integrated graphics). The cards in the Mac Pro and MacBook Pro are still subpar compared to gaming machines in the PC world, but are more than adequate for just about anything you throw at them. So to sum it up, here is all Apple needs to do to make Macs better for gaming (and notice "make a gaming Mac" isn't an option):

1) Work with game companies to better optimize games for OS X
2) Make it easier to upgrade the video card on Macs / offer better options out of the box
 
Battlefield Fan said:
my dream apple gaming machine would be:
case: apple mac pro case (its one of the sturdiest cases that keeps the components cool.)
motherboard: NVIDIA 790i Ultra
processor: Intel QX9650 @ 3.0 GZ over clocked to 3.8 GZ
Video Card: Two over clocked NVIDIA 9800 GX2 running in quad SLI
RAM: 8 GB DDR3 PC3-14400 Dual Channel (2048 x 4)
Sound Card:Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro sound card
Hard Drive: Raid 0 Western Digital Raptor 150 GB x 4 (600 GB)
Power Supply: ABS Tagan BZ Series EPS12V 1300W Power Supply
Sony Internal Blu-ray Disc™ Rewritable Drive
liquid cooling on cpu to allow for extreme crawzy over clocking!
hmmm i think thats all!:apple:
Click to expand...

nice. very nice. I was thinking about using a gx2 for a computer I'm building, but i''m just gonna go 9600gt in sli.
 
Mac Pro - the only way to go

Sorry kids - the graphic cards in iMacs or MBP's ain't gonna cut it on anything other than native Mac games - that don't ask much of the graphics card.

There've been a few games I'm keen to play, and figured my brand new mac's (iMac, MBP top of the line) would do better than my 3 year old Dell XPS (top of the line at the time, X850 card). Boy was I wrong.

On Crysis - the biggest performance hog you can get these days, it actually ran on my aging PC at lowish settings; while it ran at sketch artist frame rates on the MBP, even when running XP in boot camp.

No biggie, I can still run it right? Naw - I wanted power! Plus, I'm in the process of ripping my whole 800+ DVD collection for my apple TV - which I really have to do on the MPB (handbrake is like 4 to 5X as slow on my Dell). And I wanted to host my iTunes server on a real mac - but the MBP has trouble keeping iTunes connected to my 5 TB NAS.

All of which were really just rationalizations for getting a gaming machine of course - which is why I'm weighing in here.

For my purposes, I was looking at dual 3.0, GT8600, RAID card and 4 1TB drives - weighing in at about $6,800. And that's assuming I buy the RAM elsewhere. Ouch!

You do NOT need a box like that for gaming. Dual processers are going to run a game much faster - games aren't coded to take advantage of them for the most part. And unless you're storing massive amounts of iTunes data, you don't need the RAID set up.

If you want the "ultimate" gaming machine, obviously get a maxed out Mac Pro - which can run you a good $20,000 if you really go nuts. But for a nearly ultimate gaming machine on more reasonable budget - you can get away with the single processor, the standard 2 GB RAM, maybe just one hard drive upgraded to the 1TB - and of course the nVidia card.

Do think about the future, and other things you can use it for though. Mac's aren't natural choices for gaming machines - so it's kind of wasteful to get one just suited for that. If you're gonna boost anything, get 2 chips (and the 1TB drive)- the rest is easily upgraded later. You'll be able to upgrade the graphics card later if you want. I don't know how easy upgrading to a RAID system would be after the fact; so if you were going to get a NAS anyway - go ahead and pour it into the box at the start. The Apple RAID card is pretty flexible - you could start with RAID 0 for performance (2 1TB drives, mirrored) and then add drives as circumstances dictate (and money allows).

I'd be telling you how well it works already if I hadn't thrown a little too much money into an IRA to boost my tax rebate, or bothered to bill my last 2 consulting jobs. But I *will* get that box. Even though I know it's really stupid to drop nearly 8 grand for bit more convenience in my entertainment set up, in what looks to be a truly crap-tastic economy.

But at the same time, I've never regretted spending way too much on a computer in my life. Having the sweetest gear there is makes your life easier than everyone else's. So what if other people have homes, cars, or retirement accounts? I've got a life time of the best video game experiences anyone could have.

Though... if I hadn't ruined my thumbs in a freak slam dancing accident 10 years ago - I'm be spending my money on a console. As it is though, I'm a confirmed mouse and keyboard player; and always will be. I suppose I could get a Wii - but I understand that involves getting some kind of exercise - which just sounds wrong.

Yeah - unless you can make use of a killer mac; or a killer PC, spend your money on a high end console. They cost less than the price of single bump in chip upgrades.

Here's another handy tip: use the money you should be spending on glasses on gaming or entertainment gear too. I have a 60" high-def TV; but my eyes are so bad I can't read the descriptions of Apple TV movies unless I'm like 5 feet away from it. Do you have any idea what it would cost me if I could actually tell the difference between regular DVD's and Blue-Ray? Like I said, I have about 800 DVD's. They might as well be VCR tapes for what I can make out, so there's hardly any point in upgrading them to Blue-Ray discs, *or* blowing another $300 on glasses. Ka-ching!
 
My Mac Pro is my (current) "Dream Apple Gaming Computer" - superfast Xeons and the incredible 8800 GT does it for me for the time being! 😀 😎 :apple:
 
Depends on your dream

The ultimate dream gaming Mac would depend on your dreams.

Personally, my dream gaming mac would be a modification of the iMac.
Try to follow me on this, I'd love people's feedback.

Take the current iMac design. Move a PCI-E 16 lane to the middle back of the panel. Apple would modify the connection from a dual-sided slot to something smaller, perhaps a BGA or an old style square edge connector.
The new iMac would connect a dedicated video board to the motherboard at this point.. back of the machine.

The base configuration would essentially be internal to the case. There might be a small 'blister' on the back if need be.
The high performance [Gaming] system would use a modern graphics sub-system. To accommodate something like an 9600GT or and 8800GT, the 'module' would likely be large enough to that it would noticeable. I suspect it wouldn't be difficult to engineer and have it look presentable though.

I envision a 'lump' that matched the back. It would be smooth with a flattened 'top' (aka back). The top would be vented.. perhaps laser cut into the back, the whole module skin could be Alu and part of the heat sink. The bottom would also be vented to aid in heat convection. I suspect it wouldn't be difficult to also flow some of the existing internal air flow over the module either.

edit: I had an thought.. envision this: take a thick slice of bread [typical loaf dimensions]. lay it on a counter top.. it would be 1/2, perhaps 3/4" tall at this point and maybe 4-5" square. Now imagine you took some peanut butter butter and smeared it along the edges.. not on the top, but like caulk making a smooth transition from the top of the crust to the counter. This is basically what I think a graphics module would look like in dimension. The bulk of the module would be copper heat sink fins and aluminum skin. one side (top) of the peanut butter edge would have vents cut, the opposite peanut butter edge (bottom) would have vents cut, hopefully for some convection cooling though I suspect you'd need to flow some internal air-flow into it also. Sorry, I couldn't think of a better way to visualize it.

Here's the best part, The module is plugable [retaining screw on each corner] so it would be possible to upgrade. In fact, there's nothing to stop an aftermarket vendor from making a bad ass 9800GX2 module with a big heat sink and fan.

I think it's the perfect gaming rig because the iMac is already a great computer but its major flaw is the lack of truely fast graphics. It would be the ultimate LAN Party Mac and probably the ultimate LAN Party Windows box. 20" or 24" in one panel. It's the quiet home computer (without the ugly box) and it's still a perfectly capable gaming rig for the kids (or the adults).

Well, that's just me.
In general if I were at Apple I'd also pitch the sub-Tower like everyone else mentioned.

1/2 height of current cheeze grater. Same design to take advantage of superior air flow.
800W power
Two SATA bays behind Optical
Ports, Ports, Ports: 6-8 USB2, 2 FW800, 2 E-SATA
Gig-E, built in audio w/ optical out
2x 16 lane PCI-E with SLI support. I don't suspect other PCI-E would be useful.
4 DDR2 slots. At least 8GB RAM support (because, why not?)
Optionally.. a Physix chip would be a selling point if Apple could get good economies of scale.
Given a future release, I would suggest lower mid video so the machine isn't priced out of other market segments but Gaming cards would start at the 8800GT or 9600GT (performance is similar but I believe the 8800 might run cooler). High-Mid and High End ATI and Nvidia cards would be available from Apple (not all, but one from each performance level). Videocard selection would likely be tied to SLI support.

CPU support would be Wolfdale (which are actually pretty inexpensive at 3GHz) and Quad Core from 2.5GHz all the way up to 3.2GHz. Single socket should be plenty

That's it. Personally, I think the super-IMac would be much more interesting.

ffakr

P.S. Apple can take any idea I present in a public forum, I release any claims on my concepts. 🙂
At most, they could throw me a solid and offer a job but I wouldn't demand one. 😛
 
It would have a 600W PSU, be about the size of a IIci or a PowerMac 8500, have a 16x PCIe slot, single chip quad core CPU, plain old DDR2 or DDR3 RAM, and enough airflow to keep the whole works healthy.

Oh and it should start around $1500. Bring your own keyboard and mouse.
 
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