MP 7,1 So...Who Ordered a New Mac Pro?

[Boil]

I'm still not understanding what this new Mac Pro offers that we couldn't have gotten with an updated Intel version.

The completion of the transition to Apple silicon...?

If you want an Intel workstation, buy a PC...

 

[rpmurray]

If you want an Intel workstation, buy a PC...

Deflect much?

 

[9640418]

I saw a YT video (I forget which) where the guy made an argument I hadn't considered:

-The 2023 Mac Pro is not a prosumer tower, there isn't one as of now
-It's a specific product for people who need the slots
-It's actually a great deal for those people, because a fully tricked-out 2023 is like 12K, compared to 60 something for the intel one

In the end, it's a slot box for media houses. Specialty product and nothing more.

 

[Jethro!]

I'm still not understanding what this new Mac Pro offers that we couldn't have gotten with an updated Intel version.

Answer: nothing. It's inferior in almost every way to what a refreshed Intel machine would have offered.

 

[Jethro!]

I will update my 7.1 to 28 core when needed and add more Ram when needed, but will not buy into the closed in Mac eco system of the Mac pro 8.1 with just storage upgrade's available. And who's to say there wont be a TB-5 PCIe card available for the Mac pro 7.1 when its released. but i expect apple will block that like the 7900xtx update they could provide if they wanted to for existing Mac pro 7.1 owners who would like a 7900xtx.

Similarly, I will likely look for a used 7,1 and max it out. Then figure out how I will transition away from the Apple ecosystem. Tragic and pathetic what Apple has become.

 

[Jethro!]

I find it hard to believe a company could be that stupid to spend $$$ to intentionally kill off a major product line and destroy its own reputation. Maybe I'm just not understanding the internal Apple religion.

It's called hubris -- misapplied intelligence.

 

[CanPhantom]

"Courage"

 

[orionquest]

I saw a YT video (I forget which) where the guy made an argument I hadn't considered:

-The 2023 Mac Pro is not a prosumer tower, there isn't one as of now
-It's a specific product for people who need the slots
-It's actually a great deal for those people, because a fully tricked-out 2023 is like 12K, compared to 60 something for the intel one

In the end, it's a slot box for media houses. Specialty product and nothing more.

What media house is going to use this when they cannot put a GPU in it???
Stay off YT. 🙄

 

[Piplodocus]

Since the naming scheme is already at a limit (what could be better than Ultra?)

What name could mean more than "Ultra"? Obvious: they could take the chip to the absolute maximum and hence call it the "Max"!!!...

hey, hang on a minute... 🤣

 

[9640418]

What media house is going to use this when they cannot put a GPU in it???
Stay off YT. 🙄

I will do whatever I want and continue to post freely, thank you.

There will be many customers for this, maybe not you.

 

[okkibs]

What name could mean more than "Ultra"?

How about the iPhone Annihilator? Or iPhone: The Eclipse Edition. With battery life from dawn to dusk.

There will be many customers for this, maybe not you.

They have a point though, other than some audio interface cards where the functionality exists within external audio interfaces already, what PCIe cards would these many customers slot in? The only thing I can think of is storage (NVMe) but the Mac Pro wouldn't be anyone's first pick for a fileserver or storage backend. We have Mac Pros at our recording studio with equipment from a variety of brands like minidsp and so on, but they really all use USB, Midi and so on. Everything else I come up with is compute where you need that GPU support that MacOS is lacking entirely on ASi.

 

[orionquest]

I will do whatever I want and continue to post freely, thank you.

There will be many customers for this, maybe not you.

So will I,
You sound like the perfect buyer for this, completely clueless.
You have a good dealer,
carry on.

 

[rondocap]

I've been thinking on the new Mac Pro for the last few days, and I can kind of see some use cases for it.

I am a huge Mac Pro fan - of the entire thing, and all of the generations.

If you consider that it's the best performing M2 Ultra chip, plus the PCIe slots, it's not as bad as I was thinking initially for "some" people.

Yes, the Mac Studio makes a lot of sense for 99% of people, but the slots are very useful too. Putting in lots of fast storage is still possible in the new Mac Pro, and I definitely prefer internal vs external solutions for that.

My Intel Mac Pro is currently running some PCIe NVME cards and the Pegasus R4i - so I appreciate the internal storage. (Everything can be moved to the new Mac Pro, aside from the R4i which is MPX)


The design and build quality of the Mac Pro itself is second to none - as someone who is also a PC gamer enthusiast, a case like that would cost serious money - there's nothing like it.

So I can definitely see the justifications for that extra "3K" for "Some" people, it has some benefits.

I plan on running my Intel Mac Pro alongside the Mac Studio, since I think the Mac Pro still has lots of utility. If I didn't plan on both, I'd definitely lean towards the new Mac Pro because of the things I outlined above.

$3k is a lot - but you are getting "something" for that difference that the Mac Studio does not have - the PCIe slots and the case itself. Maybe not worth it for most people, but it's not as bad.

There are other things that I don't like, like no more GPUs and questionable upgrade path, but otherwise it has some benefits.

Just my thoughts on it, because from watching other people online it seems like "Zero" value is added in the new Mac Pro for the price vs the Mac Studio, and I do think there is some legitimate value differences there for the right user.

And C'mon, that chassis is just so gorgeous and built like tank! 😀

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

The new Mac Pro is likely just a stopgap measure until they figure out a way to bring it up to the capabilities of the older Intel model, i.e. supporting more memory. They had the redesigned Mac Pro housing already, and they had the tech from the Studio, so why not make it available for users that prefer this form factor or require the PCIe slots?

Apple knows very well that copying another Mac's hardware with its restrictions and performance (and adding slots that are missing GPU support!) isn't going to make for an exciting product. But they surely had the plan for where the Mac Pro will be heading well before releasing it gimped like this.

If I were Apple, I'd be designing the next ASi iteration with an option for DDR5 memory slots in mind, and I'd offer an upgrade service where customers bring in their Mac Pro 2019/2023 in for a mainboard replacement and a yearly mainboard-replacement "upgrade" path is established.

I am convinced Apple won't ask us to replace the entire Mac Pro, and I am also convinced they'll extract as much money from their customers as possible, so offering that mainboard upgrade service makes perfect sense.

At that point the distinction between Studio and Pro will be clear: At the very least the Pro will support double the memory and more, and I assume there will be a chip beyond the Ultra that will be Pro exclusive. Since the naming scheme is already at a limit (what could be better than Ultra?) they'll call it something like P1 (performance) which allows for another Mac Pro exclusive series with varying performance from the P1 Pro/Max to the P1 Ultra.

And then instead of being forced to follow the yearly M release cycle -it would look silly if the Studio got the lastest M release and the Mac Pro didn't- they can establish a separate, for example 3 year cycle, so that they got a couple years in between Mac Pro releases.

Perhaps there won't be any user-upgradeable memory at all and the P1 will just double the max memory config from the Studio. I am hoping for more memory configs but 384GiB+ would at least be better than the measly 192GiB we get now.

I pray you’re right and this will be known as the stopgap Mac ‘doh! There is a chance that is correct but I do think enough people need to complain and label it a failure for what it is not, a Mac Pro. If people do not criticize it harshly as an over expensive Mac Studio with a peripheral cage stuck into it, they won’t fix it. It needs expandable ecc ram, 3rd party gpu support, and ability to upgradeable processors. We need to ask and demand that and ridicule this machine as the insult it is If there is to be any chance for improvement. This needs to become the trashcan 2.

 

[rondocap]

I saw a YT video (I forget which) where the guy made an argument I hadn't considered:

-The 2023 Mac Pro is not a prosumer tower, there isn't one as of now
-It's a specific product for people who need the slots
-It's actually a great deal for those people, because a fully tricked-out 2023 is like 12K, compared to 60 something for the intel one

In the end, it's a slot box for media houses. Specialty product and nothing more.

I can see if a media house uses Arri or is heavy on ProRes, that's where the Mac Pro definitely excels.

I personally use Red, so the GPUs like W6800x duo still perform better for the most part, but I can definitely see the use case for other codecs.

And having that extra utility of the PCIe ports does not hurt, either. For most professional environments $3k can be justified as the difference if the product will provide some more value I feel.

Still, Mac Studio for most places makes more sense, but I definitely can see where the Mac Pro will be useful with what it has.

 

[rondocap]

I pray you’re right and this will be known as the stopgap Mac ‘doh! There is a chance that is correct but I do think enough people need to complain and label it a failure for what it is not, a Mac Pro. If people do not criticize it harshly as an over expensive Mac Studio with a peripheral cage stuck into it, they won’t fix it. It needs expandable ecc ram, 3rd party gpu support, and ability to upgradeable processors. We need to ask and demand that and ridicule this machine as the insult it is If there is to be any chance for improvement. This needs to become the trashcan 2.

It is certainly disappointing that there is nothing in the performance to separate the "Mac Pro" from the Mac Studio. They could have bumped something up, just to make it at least slightly better.

It definitely feels like a stopgap product, cheapest way to release a Mac Pro - use the previous chassis, and the chip that goes in other systems too.

The Intel Mac Pro had so many "custom" things to it that it's insane. Custom MPX, custom chassis, custom cooling solutions, design, it's super unique - and expensive is the result. Maybe it was so good it spoiled us, ha!

I hope the next Mac Pro feels as special, even with Apple Silicon..

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

It is certainly disappointing that there is nothing in the performance to separate the "Mac Pro" from the Mac Studio. They could have bumped something up, just to make it at least slightly better.

It definitely feels like a stopgap product, cheapest way to release a Mac Pro - use the previous chassis, and the chip that goes in other systems too.

The Intel Mac Pro had so many "custom" things to it that it's insane. Custom MPX, custom chassis, custom cooling solutions, design, it's super unique - and expensive is the result. Maybe it was so good it spoiled us, ha!

I hope the next Mac Pro feels as special, even with Apple Silicon..

And the reason they rushed a stopgap, imo, is simple. Not to claim they finished the transition in ~2’ish years (I don’t think they care about that), but so they would not have to support $$$ Intel versions of the operating system for extra years with the leftover 7,1.

 

[rpmurray]

I think one of my beefs with this is that Apple is calling it a Mac Pro, but I'm just not seeing it. Maybe if they called it the Mac Studio Pro it wouldn't be so offensive.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I think one of my beefs with this is that Apple is calling it a Mac Pro, but I'm just not seeing it. Maybe if they called it the Mac Studio Pro it wouldn't be so offensive.

Wow you are so on the money with this. It is way more of Mac Studio pro than a…it’s not a Mac Pro.

 

[AF_APPLETALK]

I find it hard to believe a company could be that stupid to spend $$$ to intentionally kill off a major product line and destroy its own reputation. Maybe I'm just not understanding the internal Apple religion.

Yeah I don't get the need to kill the Mac off either. I personally would have to switch to Linux or FreeBSD. I simply won't go from multiple big monitors to a small iPad screen docked into a big monitor. And I need to compile stuff that's more than will fit in a Swift code pen.

 

[Jethro!]

I think one of my beefs with this is that Apple is calling it a Mac Pro, but I'm just not seeing it. Maybe if they called it the Mac Studio Pro it wouldn't be so offensive.

Just call it what it is -- Disposable Overpriced Mac for Suckas! "DOMS"

 

[prefuse07]

I am currently 🤣 @ 6 people

 

[deconstruct60]

I saw a YT video (I forget which) where the guy made an argument I hadn't considered:

-The 2023 Mac Pro is not a prosumer tower, there isn't one as of now
-It's a specific product for people who need the slots
-It's actually a great deal for those people, because a fully tricked-out 2023 is like 12K, compared to 60 something for the intel one

In the end, it's a slot box for media houses. Specialty product and nothing more.

The MP 2019 was not an answer for the xMac ( affordable box with slots ) crowd either. The MP 2023 is just even more so not an answer for those folks. this is not new … just further down same path has been on since 2013 ( about 10 years ) .

It is more specialized the generic prosumer Windows box , but not quite as narrow as just media houses. I think that is a bit of an over simplification. Anyone with 10’s of TB of data to keep near-level handy can have leverage with Mac Pro ( mainly due to Apple’s $400/TB pricing baseline ) . You don’t have to be a big media house to have 10’s of TB .

Additionally, There are foils not in big media house with 25GbE networks . But yes, if the sole Internet connect for the intended system is just WiFi 5 ( or even a mesh WiFi 6 with multiple hops ) this MP is a huve mismatch. ( I suspect Apple is thinking WiFI 6E to Vision Pro at least as much to lowest common denWiFi only . Apple isn’t turning away the ‘got money to burn‘ crowd , but also not the base looking at. ) .

Afterburner in 2019 was not aimed at mainstream prosumers. The > 1TB RAM tax in 2019 on > 20 cores was not aimed at prosumers. The pay more for a single die than double die W6900X was not aimed at Prosumers either .

What has disappear is the ability for folks to ‘hijack’ the system and redirect it at something that Apple was not primarily pursuing. It isn’t Apple’s focus changing . It is subverting what Apple is focusing on.

Mac Pro never was a ‘do everything for everybody’ box . At least not Apple’s intent for well over a decade . There are lots of folks that have been living the self delusion dream. The model just does more to pop that bubble.

 

[flat4]

You’ll be waiting a while probably.

2023 MP might be the last one and maybe Apple will just kill the desktop computer business off completely and everyone can use mega-powered iPads.

Make it look fancy, make people throw it out and buy new one if they need to upgrade.

I’m holding on to the 7,1 and will upgrade it to the maximum.

Well considering that I did not get my first cMP until 2021, I can wait

 

[m1maverick]

-It's actually a great deal for those people, because a fully tricked-out 2023 is like 12K, compared to 60 something for the intel one

This.Is.A.Stupid.Comparison. One cannot compared the price of the two systems as they are no longer comparable. For example: At least half of the $50K of a fully tricked out 2019 Mac Pro was 1.5TB of RAM. The 2023 Mac Pro has, by comparison, a paltry maximum memory capacity of 192GB.