So would you really miss Flash ?

daferrisda

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 5, 2006
38
0
OK, I know there are some things that do need Flash and I agree the iPad just wont work. I've been thinking since the announcement should I get one, the only thing stopping me is the lack of Flash.

So for the past week I've disabled Flash on my Macbook to see how I get on, and I've got to be honest for me, I don't think I'll miss it that much. The only real issue would be playing news videos on the BBC website.

One positive thing about not having Flash, is the majority of these annoying moving and flashing adverts go, sure you still get adds, but there just jpg or simple gif, that must be a good enouth reason to disable Flash :D

So if your not sure, disable Flash for a week and see how you get on. If you find a site or activity that doesn't work then check the App store there maybe an App for it....

Would be interesting to see your comments.
 

marksman

macrumors 603
Jun 4, 2007
5,763
5
Like today when I was browsing around and flash crashed and fortunately only broke flash where as in the past it would have crashed my entire browser and caused it to restart, I can say, I will never miss flash.

Flash sucks.
 

CylonGlitch

macrumors 68030
Jul 7, 2009
2,925
109
SoCal
Try it out. If you have a Mac and are using Safari, install "Click2Flash". It will disable flash for you (giving you a button to load the flash content you want). Then you'll know how flash will effect your life on the websites you visit.

Use FlashBlock for Firefox
And BlockFlash2 for Chrome

(I haven't tried the Firefox or Chrome versions)
 

G4R2

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2006
546
2
What most of the users who are complaining about Flash's absence on the iPhone and iPad will miss isn't Flash but the content they believe to be inextricably bound to it.

It's a bit like early computer users arguing they miss BASIC when more modern programming tools became available. Of course, no one ever made that argument because for some reason they were able to discern the application from the programming language it was written in.

Bizarrely, this isn't the case for Flash. Some uninformed internet users have been arguing against their own self interests in demanding the continued use of Flash, a proprietary software technology that Adobe chooses to develop at its own pace even though the repercussions of poorly performing implementations reflects not on them but on the computer platform.

Internet users should demand that Adobe make Flash open source so that the underlying code can be integrated most effectively into browsers regardless of the OS and that all content be delivered by open source standards so that the best possible experience can be assured regardless of the platform.
 

marksman

macrumors 603
Jun 4, 2007
5,763
5
G4 is right on.

Almost nobody cares about flash itself, they care about the content some web providers choose to provide via flash. So it will be easy enough for web sites to change, because the people don't care about flash, they just want the content.
 

Bytor65

macrumors 6502a
Feb 10, 2010
824
89
Canada
What most of the users who are complaining about Flash's absence on the iPhone and iPad will miss isn't Flash but the content they believe to be inextricably bound to it.
Most of those complaining about Flash, would just find something else to complain about if it did run flash. No OSX for instance.

I run flashblock on firefox since about Firefox 1.0. Works great. I can easily live without flash on an appliance like the iPad.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,609
34,760
USA
Here's part of the problem though.

Adobe made a product. Flawed or not - people adopted it and made it the standard. Adobe didn't force designers into using it. There could have been competing products but nothing hit critical mass like Adobe's Flash.

Should Adobe address issues at hand. Sure. But to blame then entirely for the situation and/or open source at this point isn't 100 percent valid.

The web is where it is - not because of Adobe - but because web designers/producers made a choice on what to support.

It could just have easily been RealMedia (which was very strong at one point) or some other technology that came out on top. And we could STILL be in the same situation.

Adobe isn't blameless. But they aren't solely to blame.

ETA (even though Marksman has me on ignore) - it's not just a simple case of websites switching to HTML5. Because HTML5 doesn't offer and protection for the video it's passing. Which means videos that websites want (to the best they can) "secure" can't be. That's why many sites won't switch or will wait.
 

Doju

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,511
0
No, I have Click2Flash enabled so I very rarely even click to view the Flash. Flash sites are usually gross, over-sparkly garbage anyway.

If I were a Hulu user, I could see the gripe, but it's not available in Canada, so…
 

Hankster

macrumors 68020
Jan 30, 2008
2,347
250
Washington DC
Flash is important to me because I view a lot of streaming video. From hulu.com to any news site (especially local)...they all use Flash to display their videos. A device that can't display sites a regular browser can is limited.

Multimedia includes Flash whether you like it or not. Apple doesn't like Flash because they would lose money.

Flash allows for free games such as miniclip.com, and it allows for free television and movies via a variety of sites. Silverlight is also not supported by iPad, the plugin NetFlix uses to stream their movies. Developers can also create apps via Flash, something Apple does not want. They want user to buy their apps, not get free ones.

If you notice, everything that's not supported by Apple is related to some business practice Apple has (iTunes). It's all about the money. Smart move by Apple, but users get the short end of the stick.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
I thought it was interesting that Adobe says they get up to 7 million requests a month from iPhone and iPod touch for a Flash download.

That means not just seeing the blue block and stopping, but clicking and trying to download Flash.

Obviously a lot of people want to see whatever it is they are missing.
 

t0mat0

macrumors 603
Aug 29, 2006
5,425
263
Home
I thought it was interesting that Adobe says they get up to 7 million requests a month from iPhone and iPod touch for a Flash download.

That means not just seeing the blue block and stopping, but clicking and trying to download Flash.

Obviously a lot of people want to see whatever it is they are missing.
Not like the sites are make it clear necessarily. Take hulu.com

Load it up, and it says:

Hulu requires Flash Player 10.0.22 or higher. Please download [link] and install the latest version of Flash player before continuing.
Click on the link, and you're an Adobe statistic. So how many people on the street understand why Adobe isn't there? How many know that you can get a link on a website to iTunes on the iPhone/Touch?

Clicking on a link out of curiosity seems normal behaviour. Maybe they wanted to find out more? Adobe could much more easily tell if they created a feedback page once you've clicked.

It can be taken many ways - A CEO could say - hey - we're getting x00,000 people on our site not viewing content. Does the CEO petition Adobe? Or does the CEO demand to get at the minimum to have a graceful fallback?

Part of the reason people are narked with Flash is that many web developers that use Flash don't provide a suitable fall back.

People want the content, not the Flash. It's a means to an end, that's in many cases for Mac users buggy, and resource hogging. Apple's blackballed Flash, and there are alternatives.

Will companies be so ideologically with Flash that they don't use alternatives to get to customers and viewers on iPads etc? There were conscious decisions to go with Flash instead of other things on websites.

e.g. HBO, Hulu.
 

t0mat0

macrumors 603
Aug 29, 2006
5,425
263
Home
Reading http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_wants_to_be_your_one_true_login.php it looks like one can easily overestimate peoples usage. Or link clicking.
I'd imagine many could find friends and relatives who google a site page and link rather than use history, bookmarks etc.
Making somebing simpler and more accessible sounds pretty useful for them.

I really think we need a new forum.

"Flash discussions".
Mods, if they desired, could create a single thread for Flash on iPad discussion if they desired. Can flag it up to them via the website feedback or flag a post and describe the idea.
 

OlBlueHair

macrumors regular
Feb 7, 2008
117
0
Would I miss Flash? I don't need to do a test - I MISS FLASH EVERY NIGHT WHEN I'M SURFING THE WEB IN BED ON MY IPHONE AND MY INTERNET HAS GIANT HOLES IN IT.

This is sorta forgivable on a phone. It's is unforgivable on "a magical revolutionary device that is the best internet experience ever."

I will not be buying one. I have the money. I want one. I will not be buying one.

It's not just Hulu or Netflix. There are tons and tons of sites that have gaping holes in them in addition to coming across video links DAILY that I can't play unless I get up and go get on my main computer.

I'M NOT BUYING AN IPAD IF I HAVE TO GET UP AND GET ON MY MAIN COMPUTER TO SURF THE ****ING INTERNET.
 

racer1441

macrumors 68000
Jul 3, 2009
1,762
146
The Flash-bigots love talking about how the internet is crippled without Flash. The OP is 100% right, turn flash off and not only won't you notice, you'll be much more likely to enjoy the internet.

Flash, if implemented correctly, could be nice. The problem is that it's buggy, slow, and frankly most people who use flash create objects that should never see the light of day.

I'll pay my $1 or $2 for a AD FREE tv show.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,609
34,760
USA
The Flash-bigots love talking about how the internet is crippled without Flash. The OP is 100% right, turn flash off and not only won't you notice, you'll be much more likely to enjoy the internet.

Flash, if implemented correctly, could be nice. The problem is that it's buggy, slow, and frankly most people who use flash create objects that should never see the light of day.

I'll pay my $1 or $2 for a AD FREE tv show.
Bigots? Riiiiiiiight. I enjoy the internet on my mac very well WITH Flash. And I already pay subscriptions fees to Netflix. And movies are commercial free. I would have to pay to rent them from iTunes to watch them on the iPad too? No thanks
 

Cinemagic

macrumors 6502
Sep 26, 2007
389
1
People can argue the merits or problems with Flash all day long. As mentioned by some here, it's not Flash or no-Flash, it's about content. Flash provides content, navigation within a website, and other good functions. Flash is buggy on Safari browsers. Not on IE or Firefox. Fix Safari. Flash is a proprietary Adobe creation. HTML5 is an Apple/Google creation. It boils down to who you want to pay for content delivery. Apple has a vested, monetary interest in the failure of Flash and the success of HTML5.

But all this aside, Flash is here in a large percentage of websites - today. Apple wants to sell iPads - today. Not tomorrow's HTML5 or what ever replaces Flash, but today. If you are happy with the web content you receive on the iPhone or iPod Touch, then by all means, buy an iPad. If you don't care that much about the web and you want to pay Apple for all your content, then by all means, buy an iPad. If you want to do one thing at a time (and maybe listen to music also), then buy an iPad. But if you want to actually web surf - today - don't buy an iPad, buy a Macbook Pro. I'm all for purchasing my technology from Apple. I love the company and their products. But the iPad is nothing more than a large screen iPod Touch. Nothing more. The price is right for large iPod Touch. But it is absolutely NOT the device that Jobs talked about during the announcement. It does NOT allow for complete website viewing. If you surf the web, you'll be disappointed. As for me, if Flash was supported, I'd have my pre-order in already. But no Flash, I'll stick with my iPhone and Macbook Pro. I'd never use an iPad due to the poor browning experience of mobile Safari.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,609
34,760
USA
People can argue the merits or problems with Flash all day long. As mentioned by some here, it's not Flash or no-Flash, it's about content. Flash provides content, navigation within a website, and other good functions. Flash is buggy on Safari browsers. Not on IE or Firefox. Fix Safari. Flash is a proprietary Adobe creation. HTML5 is an Apple/Google creation. It boils down to who you want to pay for content delivery. Apple has a vested, monetary interest in the failure of Flash and the success of HTML5.

But all this aside, Flash is here in a large percentage of websites - today. Apple wants to sell iPads - today. Not tomorrow's HTML5 or what ever replaces Flash, but today. If you are happy with the web content you receive on the iPhone or iPod Touch, then by all means, buy an iPad. If you don't care that much about the web and you want to pay Apple for all your content, then by all means, buy an iPad. If you want to do one thing at a time (and maybe listen to music also), then buy an iPad. But if you want to actually web surf - today - don't buy an iPad, buy a Macbook Pro. I'm all for purchasing my technology from Apple. I love the company and their products. But the iPad is nothing more than a large screen iPod Touch. Nothing more. The price is right for large iPod Touch. But it is absolutely NOT the device that Jobs talked about during the announcement. It does NOT allow for complete website viewing. If you surf the web, you'll be disappointed. As for me, if Flash was supported, I'd have my pre-order in already. But no Flash, I'll stick with my iPhone and Macbook Pro. I'd never use an iPad due to the poor browning experience of mobile Safari.
Well said. It's hard to believe "it just works" - when... well - it doesn't.
 

Bytor65

macrumors 6502a
Feb 10, 2010
824
89
Canada
Flash is buggy on Safari browsers. Not on IE or Firefox. Fix Safari. Flash is a proprietary Adobe creation. HTML5 is an Apple/Google creation. It boils down to who you want to pay for content delivery. Apple has a vested, monetary interest in the failure of Flash and the success of HTML5.
That is quite a bit of misinformation for so little typing. Flash is buggy period.

It is more buggy on linux/OSX than in windows, not more buggy in some browsers. All flash clients are done by Adbobe and it is up to them to fix it.

HTML 5 is an industry standard, not a Google/Apple creation. One of the lead Devs is an Ex Opera guy.

If you surf the web, you'll be disappointed. As for me, if Flash was supported, I'd have my pre-order in already. But no Flash, I'll stick with my iPhone and Macbook Pro. I'd never use an iPad due to the poor browning experience of mobile Safari.
Speak for yourself and your personal "browning" experience. I have been using flashblock for years. I can be quite happy without flash especially with more Video sites having alternatives every day (youtube, vimeo, dailymotion) and likely Hulu by the time iPad ships.

Really other than video there is hardly anything of value done in flash anymore. It is dying as page design technology.
 

s1m

macrumors 6502
Apr 28, 2008
496
138
If you don't care that much about the web
Umm - aren't you projecting your web experience onto other people? Just because YOU use flash doesn't mean that my web experience is worse for not being able to use flash.

Frankly I am fed up with all the b1tching and moaning about not being able to access Hulu and that it will kill the iPad - I live in Australia and even if I had flash I couldn't access Hulu:

We’re sorry, currently our site can only be streamed within the United States.

So my experience wont be impacted by a lack of flash.
 

bossxii

macrumors 68000
Nov 9, 2008
1,749
0
Kansas City
I will miss Hulu if an app doesn't show up.

That pretty much sums up my use of flash on the Web. I have click2flash on my iMac and love how much faster everything loads. I don't really think twice about it anymore.

If someone enjoys their iPT or iPhone for web use, they will still enjoy it on the iPad. The apps deliver tons of content to these mobile devices that is flash based on the web. The impact of flash on the iPad is not like turning off flash on your computer. Apps do fill some of the gap.

It's not perfect, but for me it works.