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Chip NoVaMac said:
Until I see hard and fast numbers, I can see the "greed" of both the users and the producers.

It is human nature to be self-serving. People will pirate so long as they think that the downside risk from getting caught makes it worth doing.

For example, if some of us were to learn that there was a hidden feature inside of someone's OS that has scanned for illegal SW and has planted a data timebomb that will wipe the entire HD after a certain date, I think that some people would quite likely modify their behavior a tad.

The problem here really is one of a viscious circle: the more people pirate, the more the producers are pressured raise the MSRP to cover their lost revenues from fixed development expenses...and with the higher price, more people are tempted to pirate.


Personally, I'm not going to claim that I'm 100% clean either yesterday or today, but my general approach is to "Do Without" until I can buy the desired product at the price point that I'm willing to pay. Thus, I'm still running on Photoshop v7 instead of CS, and MacOffice vX instead of 2004...and both of these were purchased legitimately from either discounts (EDU) or from upgrades from prior versions.

The bottom line remains the simple fact that new products won't be released if there isn't a commercially viable market for it...in the end, it doesn't matter if we're talking about software or automobiles.


-hh
 
I have some songs I downloaded off of Napster pre-shutdown in 2000/2001. Most have been replaced with legitimate copies. Some are of songs no longer available - and I have no issue with acquiring songs which are not sold anywhere (but haven't downloaded any non-iTunes music since Napster died the frst time).

The only pirated software is a copy of Panther on my old work PowerBook - my company abandoned it (1999 G3 400MHz Lombard), I added RAM and a faster HD, but didn't feel like shelling out $129 for a copy of Panther for an antiquidated laptop (and, no, work did not provide me with the original OS disks either).

Actually, come to think of it, it's a legit copy. As a developer, I get a copy of the latest OS, and I'd already gotten Panther on my PM G5 as a $20 upgrade (since it came out shoprtly after the G5s were released), so never mind. No pirated software, a couple of pirated songs.

I tend to buy shareware if I use it more than once. As a software developer, I feel obligated to help the community.
 
Well as a student and also having a good paying job the only thing I find odd for a student is this: The state college I attend, one has to pay a student price for software i.e. office for Mac-$139 no upgrade. The list goes on for diff. titles but the college 10 mins. away puts in a higher tech. fee and the students can pay anywhere around $10-100 for software titles. I know alot more students pay for their software at the other college than the one I attend. Schools and Big comp. should work on this to help cut down the theft of titles since I really feel it starts at these levels ;)
 
buy rather than steal

All my software is legal. I'm not wealthy, so like everything else I save up for it. I don't have the latest version of every single package, but buying the full package means that often it's cheaper later to upgrade.

I'm also a software developer, but it's my integrity more than anything else which causes me to buy rather than steal.
 
hmm

The only pirated software I have are apps I bring home from work. Anything I use at home for personal use I buy. Including music.
 
-hh said:
The answer is simple: you make do without.




There's more than one way. There's ALWAYS more than one way.

For example, you could take a part time job at one of those firms, which would let you earn some bread while learning the App's of interest for you. Plus, you would then have a leg up in finding a job in industry after graduation, because instead of merely having experience with a particular software tool, you have actual industry experience.

In the meantime, if you really gotta have your own copy, scrimp on your beer budget. No matter how poor I was in school, it seemed that I always was able to find a way to buy beer.


-hh


Lol beer budget? You realize some people also have to pay for:
1) Overpriced college textbooks (1 semester, i had to pay $550. $500!)
2) Rent/Room&Board. These things are going up everywhere. $600-800/month.
3) Oh, and food/utilities. You know, basic necessities to LIVE.

That means, in addition to their 15-18credit schedule, they have PT jobs...leaving them, maybe 3 hours do do all their homework. Well, they could stay up to 4am, but then that gives them less than 3 hours of sleep everynight. Forget about having a life. Forget about having time for extra help, meeting the professor. Forget about ANY school-related events.

There a LOT of people I know who can barely get food on the table, and you are talking about a "beer budget". That is sick.
 
-hh said:
The answer is simple: you make do without.




There's more than one way. There's ALWAYS more than one way.

For example, you could take a part time job at one of those firms, which would let you earn some bread while learning the App's of interest for you. Plus, you would then have a leg up in finding a job in industry after graduation, because instead of merely having experience with a particular software tool, you have actual industry experience.

In the meantime, if you really gotta have your own copy, scrimp on your beer budget. No matter how poor I was in school, it seemed that I always was able to find a way to buy beer.


-hh

Though your suggestions are not usable in the real world, you are, from a legal and moral standpoint, off course right. But you do not answer the more interesting and complicated part of my comment - why are the software companies not doing anything to solve the problem in a meaningfull way.
They could show up at my school with the police and catch around 500 software pirates, but they choose not to. Or they could make academic versions of their apps or a "family"-package that would cover all the students of one school, but they don't do that either.

That is why I think they are perfectly happy with status quo, since it doesn't cost them any extra ressources and most people start buying licenses once they become professionals.

A
 
Mav451 said:
Lol beer budget? You realize some people also have to pay for:
1) Overpriced college textbooks (1 semester, i had to pay $550. $500!)
2) Rent/Room&Board. These things are going up everywhere. $600-800/month.
3) Oh, and food/utilities. You know, basic necessities to LIVE.

That means, in addition to their 15-18credit schedule, they have PT jobs...leaving them, maybe 3 hours do do all their homework. Well, they could stay up to 4am, but then that gives them less than 3 hours of sleep everynight. Forget about having a life. Forget about having time for extra help, meeting the professor. Forget about ANY school-related events.

There a LOT of people I know who can barely get food on the table, and you are talking about a "beer budget". That is sick.


agreed, i am in this situation right now, and although i do not steal, i have in the past, but i no long pirate software of any sort, but certainly i see people all around me doing it for these reasons, they just dont have the money or resources

i dont drink, and many of the people i speak of dont either, a lot of people in my college town are just scraping by, and its almost impossilbe to find a job in this town, its really hard beyond belief, 1500 people applying for 185 positions at the local Kohls before it opened....
 
im not a fan of downloading due to viruses...BUT this may sound weird but im willing to pay for warez....I just dont like paying full price for things...especially when I cant afford them or know I can get them cheaper....with that said...I am not opposed to comparable freeware at all...except for MS office and photoshop...my thing is though i have so much free stuff from being in college I dont see the need to spend money I dont have on newer versions....

...some things I will buy though-things that I cant get for free or that are so cheap you might as well just buy them in the store
 
AlmostThere said:
If you want to know who's paying, as an example here in the UK the national Health Service has stumped up £500m for Microsoft software licences.

It should be noted that this a £330m saving on the normal price.

A veritable bargin.

y'see? i think i'm a 1337 hax0rz pirate, but then my tax money goes towards paying for Microsoft Software. poo poo.
 
Just an informal survey: How many of you are actually professionals that require Photoshop for your work and have a pirated copy of Photoshop?

I keep seeing MS Office and Photoshop as the two most pirated apps on the Mac side. Of all the things I pirated, I somehow found it in me to NOT pirate all of these pro apps and expensive apps. I have my copy of MS Office v. X on my bookshelf and Photoshop Elements from my graphics tablet. I, for one, had concerns whenever I pirated anything. I didn't go around pirating what I can without thinking what I was getting into. I knew it was wrong. Yet, I wasn't deterred for a couple of years. Good thing my sense caught up to me.

Anyways, back to my question: How many of you actually require Photoshop for your job and pirated it?

I doubt that number is high. Why? For starters, I don't see why your employer isn't paying for Photoshop or whatever pro app it is you need. Must be a pretty crappy company if they can't even provide their workers with the tools they need to get the job done. Secondly, if you're not a professional, why can't you settle for Elements or even less? we have Photoshop Academic Edition (or whatever the education version is called), I've used it, and I thought it was a great app. Instead of buying Photoshop, I bought a Wacom graphics tablet and got Photoshop Elements for free, and I can say Elements is probably much better than the regular Photoshop for my uses. Heck, some of the drawing apps that are free have been just as good.

So, I ask, why do you non-professionals need Photoshop?

You have so many alternatives that are cheap or free. I find it quite stupid to pirate Photoshop because of whatever your excuse may be, when you don't even need it.

And one last story... Microsoft really shrugs off piracy. My school had pirated copies of everything Microsoft. Office, Windows XP, etc. My computer science teacher sent some kids to go on Kazaa, download what they can, and get some serial keys! :eek:

One day, some MS reps came to our school because of our tech program. My teacher pretty much admitted we had pirated copies of all of their software. But, MS found in their hearts to give us site licenses after they heard our story. I was shocked! :eek: It might be because we were desperate for funding and MS was able to offer education institutions freebies, but nevertheless, pretty weird.

We also had an X-Box programmer come to our computer science class (it was our teacher's former student) to talk about game development (it was a pretty crappy lecture. Got nothing new out of it). Anyhow, before class, some kids were talking to him, and he said something along the lines, "It's okay to download your games while you're in high school. But you should start buying stuff when you get into college and help us out," with a wink.

Yeah, MS's stance on piracy is pretty lax.

EDIT: One last thing: I always found it funny how some pirates really lack any financial responsibility. Look at some of the pirates, and check what kind of machines they have (some even in this thread). I often find pirates with a PowerMac G5 Dual 2.5 GHz, or pirates with a PowerBook and plethora of other Apple hardware, or some amount of hardware totaling way over $3,000. Instead of being a dimwit and blowing your cash on hardware, why don't you save those pennies, prioritize your money, and buy the software that you so sorely need? That's right. You actually need your software more than your fifth Mac or your third iPod! What a concept!

Not naming any names, but look around. It's quite funny and pathetic. Jeez, I thought I was a pathetic pirate back in the day, but the excuses you hear these days are even worse!
 
Yeah the temptation is for someone to download a copy of Photoshop because they think it is "the" program. Photoshop was become so synonymous with graphics work that it's a verb. "That's been photoshoped".
I tried a few things once upon a time, the CS suite, Macromedia MX Studio etc. Ultimately they overwhelmed me and were since deleted.

My only pirated software now is Microsoft Office, but I may pick up the educational edition from uni when I get back after Easter.

I don't particularly like piracy, despite my somewhat tongue in cheek comments on this thread. I think it has a time and a place though.
 
my only expensive software is M$ office. the rest is photoshop elements, iwork, ilife and stuff. i paid for all of it, even donated for CCC. only with omni graffle and graphic converter i'm not sure if i bought a permenent licence with my PB or if it is only a trial version.

as a private user you get all the software you need for less than 500 bucks. so there is no excuse for stealing.

as a pro you need very expensive software. but stealing for professional reasons is even worse than the usual "stealing of software thats hardly ever used at home anyway" thing.

the availability of good and cheap software for home users is one of the reasons i like macs.
i think if the companies would release inexpensive light versions of their software most private users would rather buy than steal. photoshop elements is the best example.
 
well, since the majority of you seem to be paying software companies outrageous amounts of money, ill continue to feel ok about being part of the small percentage that cant afford the hundreds of dollars required to make music, design, or edit film and instead share these applications with like-minded people.
 
clayjohanson said:
Did those machines come with XP preinstalled? If they did, the cost to him was MUCH lower than if he bought them retail... OEMs license Windows from Microsoft fairly cheaply.

One machine was prebuilt, the other came w/ ME (and who the hell would want to run Windows ME??) and the laptop came w/ Windows 98

Our fourth PC (my sisters) came w/ XP Home preinstalled
 
All my software is legal. It does help that I can get a whole ton of software free and legal from my college, though some the school only has a certain number of floating licenses and must use special programs to use. But others you can use restriction free, Office, VirtualPC, Acrobat Pro, Mathetica, Macromedia, etc, and tons of Windows software through my CS department. It is very nice.

I haven't really been tempted to steal software too much. I only play a few games that I have all bought. I also make good use of freeware. But I told my Dad a few years ago, when I have to start buying all my software is when I'm going to start using OpenOffice.
 
But, MS found in their hearts to give us site licenses after they heard our story.

LOL :D but I don't think so. MS want as many children and students to use their software today because it becomes the software they buy tomorrow, hence piracy is overlooked. Better using 'free' MS than learning how to use a competitor's products (and winning a few hearts and minds while they are at it).

Don't forget they have produced a special version of Windows for poorer areas of South Asia and South America because they care just a little toooo much. (collective aaaaahhhhhhh)


y'see? i think i'm a 1337 hax0rz pirate, but then my tax money goes towards paying for Microsoft Software. poo poo.

Well, I have even more bad news for you ... private businesses are subsidising your software :eek:

Not only are your taxes paying Microsoft big bucks but thanks to the inefficiencies of British Business, you don't even get to stick it to the rest of the capitalist, exploitative, fat-cat software-developer scum!

One thousand three hundred and thirty seven hack-saw pirate?

More like PC World on Sunday afternoon with the 2.4 children in the 1988 Vauxhall Cavalier 1.6 ... I can hear steve Ballmer's Mwahahahahahahahaha from where I sit ;)
 
unispherephoto said:
well, since the majority of you seem to be paying software companies outrageous amounts of money, ill continue to feel ok about being part of the small percentage that cant afford the hundreds of dollars required to make music, design, or edit film and instead share these applications with like-minded people.

It's this philosophy that is bringing us product activation in the next version of Adobe Creative Suite. Let's see you share that around.

Anyone wondered where Adobe's updaters have gone recently?
Once freely available, now oddly missing...
 
I own legit copies of all my software, although I don't always follow the EULA.

By the way, Leo Laporte once said on one of his shows that a EULA has never been proven as a binding legal agreement in court. Is that true?
 
bentley said:
y'see? i think i'm a 1337 hax0rz pirate, but then my tax money goes towards paying for Microsoft Software. poo poo.


I wouldnt give a steaming pile of dog dooky for software from that POS company. Id rather deal with alternative software than give those people my money.
 
Blue Velvet said:
It's this philosophy that is bringing us product activation in the next version of Adobe Creative Suite. Let's see you share that around.

Anyone wondered where Adobe's updaters have gone recently?
Once freely available, now oddly missing...

not true..its the people who decide to register their shared software who cause these problems..adobe would have no idea who's using what if people didnt re-register the same serial nember over and over..sharing also means being smart and knowing that what youve got may be limited in its usability.
 
eh I'm kinda on the fence here. I have a good chunk of pirate software which I am using to make "a bit" of money off of. I've always said if it get's to the point that I make enough money to buy the software then I will.

But on the flipside of that if I can find a free solution, like say NeoOffice than I won't pirate it. As for my music I'm roughly 60% legit...and 40% not so much.
 
unispherephoto said:
not true..its the people who decide to register their shared software who cause these problems..adobe would have no idea who's using what if people didnt re-register the same serial nember over and over..sharing also means being smart and knowing that what youve got may be limited in its usability.

Should I be penalized by my "failings" requiring the reinstallation of the OS and software? I may have two or three "installs"n only because I could not OSX verses Win XP.
 
Interesting topic..

My current tactics?

Well,
1. I will download and try demo software and shareware whenever possible.

2. If demo is not available, I will ;
a. Go to a couple of stores ( CompUSA, Apple ) to try the software
b. Contact the company asking for a demo / manual.
c. Download a pirate copy and give it a try. It usually does not last more than a few hours on my test machine.

I am a software developer by trade. I find pirates abhorrent by nature. However, after buying quite a bit of software based on screenshots and descriptions that did not live up to the product delivered **AND** was unable to return buggy, or misrepresented features, I also find such misleading software companies also offensive.

I am not advocating any piracy, and if forced, I will not buy software without trying it first. This is as silly as buying a book ( or music ) off Amazon based solely on the cover or description.

The difference is.. I can return a book or cd to Amazon. I feel that there should be some time of return policy to protect the consumer from such shoddy software. Sadly, this is a double edge sword, since it would most likely lead to ....PIRATES!!!!

As I finish this rant, I would like to encourage all developers out there to offer a tryout version of their software It may not do much to curb piracy, but it may help sales.

As far as people that feel it is ok to download and use software for an extended period of time.. Shame on you, and I hope someone installs Windows on your machine.

RANT == OFF

Max.
 
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