Soldered RAM, Soldered everything wtf?

[MacFrag]

I love Apple, but this is something I really do not like!

Is Apple leaving there roots of:

Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers.​

The ones who made Apple big and like to upgrade there hardware them selfs get a slap in the face.

It's like all over again when Steve was kicked out of Apple and those idiots had take control.

 

[duervo]

Three years. It's been three years since Apple started this. 3.

That's 3 years.

 

[oldmacs]

I think upgradable ram is impractical in laptops where thinness is everything (MBA, rMB), but for those who desire it, I hope Apple updates the Non retina pro, as it is a wonderful machine in terms of upgradability.

Apple held on in the 1990s due to the prosumer and professional market basically, and these are the sort of people who want to upgrade their machines, so heres hoping Apple remembers us and gives us at least one option.

Please don't flame me, I understand that soldered ram makes sense for thin laptops and It makes sense for some other situations.

 

[0x100]

Even the solder in these machines are probably soldered down. But it's nothing new, my ibm from 1995 has soldered RAM and a non upgradebe HDD.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

There are 2 ram options on the pro 8GB which is more than enough for most people or 16GB which should be more than enough for everyone else. Buy what you need and forget about it. SSD's are user replaceable the fact that no one else makes them with the connector apple uses is neither here nor there they are upgradable.

If you are just moaning because you don't want to pay apples prices then that is easy don't buy their computers there are many others out there.

 

[oldmacs]

There are 2 ram options on the pro 8GB which is more than enough for most people or 16GB which should be more than enough for everyone else. Buy what you need and forget about it. SSD's are user replaceable the fact that no one else makes them with the connector apple uses is neither here nor there they are upgradable.

If you are just moaning because you don't want to pay apples prices then that is easy don't buy their computers there are many others out there.

True that works for a lot of people but not everyone. Thus why I say Apple should (and is more than capable) of offering options - Think Different.

I could never have afforded the laptop I need from Apple had I not upgraded the RAM and HDD myself. So given there is a good alternative to buy what you think you might need in a couple of years time, why should Apple not offer it?

 

[nebo1ss]

Have not bought a new computer since they started this. I intend to hold off as long as possible in the hope they will see the error of their ways.

 

[oldmacs]

Have not bought a new computer since they started this. I intend to hold off as long as possible in the hope they will see the error of their ways.

I bought their last user upgradable laptop - the Macbook Pro non retina a couple of months ago (long story behind that one). Its pretty perfect, and if they'd only put a newer processor in, it would be even greater.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

True that works for a lot of people but not everyone. Thus why I say Apple should (and is more than capable) of offering options - Think Different.

I could never have afforded the laptop I need from Apple had I not upgraded the RAM and HDD myself. So given there is a good alternative to buy what you think you might need in a couple of years time, why should Apple not offer it?

More importantl;y why should they?? They offer the products they want to make and they do so in a way that makes more money than anyone else, they are a succesful business bucking the downward trend in PC sales and their model is the only currently succesful one around. As I say the few specialist sales they would get for making endless options are not worth their while and their current model produces the best computers around I'm with apple on this one.

 

[oldmacs]

More importantl;y why should they?? They offer the products they want to make and they do so in a way that makes more money than anyone else, they are a succesful business bucking the downward trend in PC sales and their model is the only currently succesful one around. As I say the few specialist sales they would get for making endless options are not worth their while and their current model produces the best computers around I'm with apple on this one.

And their current model range does include one (quite well selling) MacBook that has the ability to upgrade.

Plus it's nice to give customers options - especially to many of their loyal customers.

It's like BMW offering small and large cars - cars to suit different people's requreiments.

 

[nebo1ss]

More importantl;y why should they?? They offer the products they want to make and they do so in a way that makes more money than anyone else, they are a succesful business bucking the downward trend in PC sales and their model is the only currently succesful one around. As I say the few specialist sales they would get for making endless options are not worth their while and their current model produces the best computers around I'm with apple on this one.

I don't think anyone is asking for endless options. They can offer the same configurations as today but not solder the memory and they would give their consumers options. Soldering the memory is not about offering less options it is about saying "**** you" to their customers that want the ability to upgrade.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I don't think anyone is asking for endless options. They can offer the same configurations as today but not solder the memory and they would give their consumers options. Soldering the memory is not about offering less options it is about saying "**** you" to their customers that want the ability to upgrade.

No it's about machines that are slimmer, lighter and far less likely to break, soldering RAM is easily the best option for all these reasons from an engineering point of view, when the amounts available are so large there is no need to upgrade and the benefits of soldered RAM far outweigh the ability to satisfy a few cheapskates.

However I do think there should be a 32GB available on the 15 inch now, with the CPU and GPU's getting so good there is a market for 32GB here for a full desktop replcement.

 

[oldmacs]

No it's about machines that are slimmer, lighter and far less likely to break, soldering RAM is easily the best option for all these reasons from an engineering point of view, when the amounts available are so large there is no need to upgrade and the benefits of soldered RAM far outweigh the ability to satisfy a few cheapskates.

However I do think there should be a 32GB available on the 15 inch now, with the CPU and GPU's getting so good there is a market for 32GB here for a full desktop replcement.

There are more than a few "cheapskates". Paying $1000s of dollars more than you need to is just being smart not being cheap. Flexibility and upgradability is only a positive for people who don't care about thinness. Plenty of people find the cMBP thin and light enough.

Thus we ask for 1 model that people can upgrade and the rest can be as glued shut as much as they want.

Its all about the profits anyway. Soldering 4GB of ram into a laptop reduces its usable lifespan. I have plenty of users on 2008 Macs, purely because I've upgraded their ram and HD to extent their usable lifespan.

 

[simonsi]

Thus we ask for 1 model that people can upgrade and the rest can be as glued shut as much as they want.

There is one. So what is your point? For the 99% of buyers that don't upgrade their RAM, ever, soldered is the best option. But there is choice.

 

[Rhinoevans]

No it's about machines that are slimmer, lighter and far less likely to break, soldering RAM is easily the best option for all these reasons from an engineering point of view, when the amounts available are so large there is no need to upgrade and the benefits of soldered RAM far outweigh the ability to satisfy a few cheapskates.

However I do think there should be a 32GB available on the 15 inch now, with the CPU and GPU's getting so good there is a market for 32GB here for a full desktop replcement.

Cheapskates? Really is that what you think. Comments likes these that give the Mac community a bad name. BTW, not everyone can fork over $2000 every 2 years for a Jon Ivy Super thin Mac. And Charge $200 to add 8G Ram. Corporate Greed!

 

[Barna Biro]

By the time you need more RAM, other more important components will be obsolete ( CPU / GPU ). 8-16GB RAM is anyway plenty for the majority of users. Those who need more are wasting their time by looking at Apple products and notebooks altogether ( most likely ). Then again, many people just like to bitch about nothing, pretending they are some "unique breed of power-users" who can't survive on whatever X, Y, Z are providing... At most, I can understand the complain from the point of view of repairability. Then again, you have AppleCare and/or servicing possibilities outside of warranty... If you want a cheap, upgradable, easily repairable product, then why not look somewhere else? You can even run OSX on non-macs if you *really* want to.

 

[Barna Biro]

Cheapskates? Really is that what you think. Comments likes these that give the Mac community a bad name. BTW, not everyone can fork over $2000 every 2 years for a Jon Ivy Super thin Mac. And Charge $200 to add 8G Ram. Corporate Greed!

With due respect, people who can't afford to maintain and/or service a 2k product perhaps shouldn't spend 2k on such a product? One could naively think it's common sense...

I see the same moronic approaches everywhere... I think the best example are cars. Sure, many people dream about owning a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley, etc. and some even end up purchasing their dream car ( even if it's a 5th-hand crap from Germany with 500k km on board and it is the result of many, many years of blood pissing and crap scrubbing... all savings down the drain for "the dream" - makes sense, *worth it* ) just to end up not really using it cause well, petrol is expensive... no insurance either, cause guess what, it's expensive... forget about periodic service / checkups cause well, that's insanely expensive, etc. At least they have the decency to shut up and not bitch about their car engine, their audio system, their HUD, etc. not being upgradable whenever a newer model is produced... is your Fiat Punto not performing as well off-road as you've hoped? Can't upgrade it to a 4x4? Damn these non-upgradable cars!

But yeah, who cares about all these "details"... in the end, all that matters is that people can see you with your shiny Mac sitting at Starbucks and having the keys of a Ferrari on the table. Whyyyy Apple?! Whyyyyy have you started making products that have soldered RAM?!? Whyyyyyyyy are there no other companies that produce good quality notebooks with such outstanding and vital features?!?!?! Oh wait...

 

[Meister]

Three years. It's been three years since Apple started this. 3.

That's 3 years.

Seems like is still catering to the weirdos though. Computer manufacturers have been soldering parts in laptops for about 15 years now.
You guys haven't left your basements in a while, have you?

 

[oldmacs]

By the time you need more RAM, other more important components will be obsolete ( CPU / GPU ). 8-16GB RAM is anyway plenty for the majority of users. Those who need more are wasting their time by looking at Apple products and notebooks altogether ( most likely ). Then again, many people just like to bitch about nothing, pretending they are some "unique breed of power-users" who can't survive on whatever X, Y, Z are providing... At most, I can understand the complain from the point of view of repairability. Then again, you have AppleCare and/or servicing possibilities outside of warranty... If you want a cheap, upgradable, easily repairable product, then why not look somewhere else? You can even run OSX on non-macs if you *really* want to.

Not really. As I said, I service multiple customers on 2008 era MacBooks and Macbook Pros. They wouldn't be on them anymore if they were stuck with the standard 2GB of ram. C2D processors provided there is enough ram and an SSD are still serviceable.

Its not complaining about nothing. There is a breed of users who like to tinker and upgrade their computers. I don't see why we have to waste time, as Apple offers a solution already, it just needs to update it for it to be relevant again.

I'd much rather to replace a faulty ram module then replacing the whole logic board, as applecare (yet another added cost) only lasts 3 years.

As I said. Apple has always/currently does (albeit in an older model) offer a good option, which does not detract form their ability to sell laptops for other user groups.

 

[oldmacs]

Soldering is perfectly justified when there is a good reason - such as an ultraportable laptop and that works well when they offer a model that you can upgrade for those who want to . Plenty of other pro spec laptops from other consumers are ram upgradable.

 

[throAU]

I love Apple, but this is something I really do not like!

Is Apple leaving there roots of:

Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers.​

The ones who made Apple big and like to upgrade there hardware them selfs get a slap in the face.

It's like all over again when Steve was kicked out of Apple and those idiots had take control.

You know Jobs was totally against slots, ever since the original Mac, right?

After 25 years of buying PCs, i tend to agree with that. Buy an appropriate spec. By the time you need to upgrade, slots, ports, memory standards, and cpu sockets change anyway.

 

[oldmacs]

With due respect, people who can't afford to maintain and/or service a 2k product perhaps shouldn't spend 2k on such a product? One could naively think it's common sense...

I see the same moronic approaches everywhere... I think the best example are cars. Sure, many people dream about owning a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley, etc. and some even end up purchasing their dream car ( even if it's a 5th-hand crap from Germany with 500k km on board and it is the result of many, many years of blood pissing and crap scrubbing... all savings down the drain for "the dream" - makes sense, *worth it* ) just to end up not really using it cause well, petrol is expensive... no insurance either, cause guess what, it's expensive... forget about periodic service / checkups cause well, that's insanely expensive, etc. At least they have the decency to shut up and not bitch about their car engine, their audio system, their HUD, etc. not being upgradable whenever a newer model is produced... is your Fiat Punto not performing as well off-road as you've hoped? Can't upgrade it to a 4x4? Damn these non-upgradable cars!

But yeah, who cares about all these "details"... in the end, all that matters is that people can see you with your shiny Mac sitting at Starbucks and having the keys of a Ferrari on the table. Whyyyy Apple?! Whyyyyy have you started making products that have soldered RAM?!? Whyyyyyyyy are there no other companies that produce good quality notebooks with such outstanding and vital features?!?!?! Oh wait...

ummmm... When I weighed up my options, it was A$3,479.00 for a Macbook Pro Retina (16GB of ram and 1TB SSD) or around $2050 in total for my Macbook Pro an SSD + add in $150 or so for the future upgrade. I had the funds (due to Apple replacing under warranty) for $2050 BUT not for $3479. As simple as that. I can afford the Mac experience perfectly well when i can upgrade, but not when I have to buy straight up. Saying that I shouldn't buy a Mac is a moronic argument .

Cars are by nature non upgradable in those terms.

I don't care about brand image, I use a Mac as Its my preferred choice of operating system and I quite like the cMBP hardware. All the applications i need and want are on the Mac, and my reasons go on. My Mac is for utility and not for showing off.

 

[oldmacs]

You know Jobs was totally against slots, ever since the original Mac, right?

After 25 years of buying PCs, i tend to agree with that. Buy an appropriate spec. By the time you need to upgrade, slots, ports, memory standards, and cpu sockets change anyway.

And he relented and realised it was a problem by the time he came back - The Mac only gained credibility when they started putting out upgradable Macs (SE/30, Macintosh II, Quadra etc). The iMac featured upgradable ram, an upgradable CPU and upgradable CD Rom drive and an upgradable HDD.

With all due respect, throughout my growing up our Macs lasted 6-7 years each, why? My parents put more ram in, or a new harddrive etc to keep things going. The need for that is less now, but for some people there is still the interest in doing that. Before everyone flames me for that and says theres no one who wants to do that, you don't know that. You don't have the data to prove that there isn't anyone.

 

[oldmacs]

There is one. So what is your point? For the 99% of buyers that don't upgrade their RAM, ever, soldered is the best option. But there is choice.

And your statistics for that 99 percent are?? The Macintosh upgrade business (OWC and the others) would not exist if nobody upgraded anything. Though i'm sure the number of people who do has reduced, and the lifespan of Macs has probably also done so.

Why do iOS devices become obsolete far faster than a Mac? Because they're completely non upgradable (and the Intel CPUs that Apple put in Macs is usually far more powerful than it needs to be, compared to the A series chips). That is the trade off for having thin and light phones, upgradable iOS devices would be completely impractical - Just using it as an example.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Cheapskates? Really is that what you think. Comments likes these that give the Mac community a bad name. BTW, not everyone can fork over $2000 every 2 years for a Jon Ivy Super thin Mac. And Charge $200 to add 8G Ram. Corporate Greed!

Don't buy them then, if you can't afford a mac there are endless other cheaper alternatives, if you can't afford a couple of hundred to get the configuration you want then you can't afford a mac it's as simple as that.

It's the same as cars if you can't afford a mercedes because the upgrades you want are thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars more then buy a honda.

All companies that sell pro computers charge similar upgrade prices and gaming computers are no different or cheaper either. When you spec them out component for component, with metal bodies, UHD screens, PCIe SSD's top endd intel graphics macs are fairly reasonable but they are an expensive product none the less and should be bought only if it is within your price range. However I'm not here to manage other peoples money just point out the realities of buying exclusive products.

Soldering is perfectly justified when there is a good reason - such as an ultraportable laptop and that works well when they offer a model that you can upgrade for those who want to . Plenty of other pro spec laptops from other consumers are ram upgradable.

The rMBP is an ultraportable laptop (they are incredibly thin and light for the power they provide) that sacrifices RAM slots and HDD/SSD blocks, for thinness lightness and battery life, if thats not what you need buy something else.

ummmm... When I weighed up my options, it was A$3,479.00 for a Macbook Pro Retina (16GB of ram and 1TB SSD) or around $2050 in total for my Macbook Pro an SSD + add in $150 or so for the future upgrade. I had the funds (due to Apple replacing under warranty) for $2050 BUT not for $3479. As simple as that. I can afford the Mac experience perfectly well when i can upgrade, but not when I have to buy straight up. Saying that I shouldn't buy a Mac is a moronic argument .

Cars are by nature non upgradable in those terms.

I don't care about brand image, I use a Mac as Its my preferred choice of operating system and I quite like the cMBP hardware. All the applications i need and want are on the Mac, and my reasons go on. My Mac is for utility and not for showing off.

No it's a perfectly reasonable argument, apple make what they make, as all companies do and charge what the market will bear (again as all companies do). If you that has changed over the years to something you can't afford then you'll just have to suck it up or go elsewhere.