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During a new episode of The Talk Show on Daring Fireball, John Gruber touched on the topic of the open floor plans that Apple has implemented within its new campus, Apple Park. Unlike office spaces at One Infinite Loop and other Apple-owned buildings -- which give most employees their own office -- Apple Park sports a large open floor plan with long tables for programmers, engineers, and other employees to work at.

Apple Park's open office spaces have been highlighted in numerous profiles on the campus, most recently by The Wall Street Journal in July, and now Gruber has reported that he's received emails from numerous Apple employees who are particularly dissatisfied with the design (via Silicon Valley Business Journal).

apple-park-standing-desks.jpg
Standing desks within one of Apple Park's open offices

Judging from the private feedback I've gotten from some Apple employees, I'm 100% certain there's going to be some degree of attrition based on the open floor plans. Where good employees are going to choose to leave because they don't want to work there.
One source is said to have been with the company for 18 years. They emailed Gruber, telling him that they're working on something that is "going to blow people's minds when we ship," but before that happens their team is transitioning to Apple Park. Gruber noted that the email was very level-headed and had a "perfect Apple sensibility," but the source nevertheless said that if they don't like the Apple Park workspaces, they're likely to leave the company after the product ships.

Gruber said he got a "couple of similar emails," with employees stating that they won't outright quit before they move to Apple Park, but if it's as bad as they think it's going to be then they will consider leaving Apple. During the podcast, Gruber and special guest Glenn Fleishman pointed out numerous disadvantages to an open work space, particularly for coders and programmers who aren't used to a lot of foot traffic and noise in their vicinity while they work.

Gruber went on to mention Apple vice president Johny Srouji as one of the employees dissatisfied with the Apple Park office spaces. Srouji was allegedly so against the changes that Apple "built his team their own building" outside of the main spaceship building.
"I heard that when floor plans were announced, that there was some meeting with [Apple Vice President] Johny Srouji's team," said Gruber. "He's in charge of Apple's silicon, the A10, the A11, all of their custom silicon. Obviously a very successful group at Apple, and a large and growing one with a lot on their shoulders."

Gruber continued, "When he [Srouji] was shown the floor plans, he was more or less just 'F--- that, f--- you, f--- this, this is bulls---.' And they built his team their own building, off to the side on the campus ... My understanding is that that building was built because Srouji was like, 'F---- this, my team isn't working like this.'"
The idea that open work spaces at Apple Park could potentially "irk" employees goes back to some of the original profiles on the building. Last year, Bloomberg explained that there will be "few traditional offices" at Apple Park, and management will have to be at a vice president level or above to get their own formal office space, although there is reportedly potential for employees below this level to be eligible. During the company's presentations to the Cupertino city council, Apple's viewpoint indicated an open floor plan is "conducive to collaboration between teams."

In other Apple Park news, some Snapchat users have recently noticed that a handful of construction workers and visitors at the campus have been taking enough snaps to accumulate into a Snapchat Story of its own. If you're on the app, you can search "Apple Park" from the main screen to find the Story. The new "Snap Map" also shows an increase in picture-taking activity at Apple Park.

apple-park-snapchat.jpg

Apple Park opened to the first round of employees over the summer, and the campus will eventually house close to 12,000 workers. Over the past few years, drone footage has consistently documented construction on the site, originally referred to as Apple Campus 2, with more recent updates focusing on the advancements made to the area's landscaping and the Steve Jobs Theater.

Article Link: Some Apple Park Employees Said to Be Dissatisfied With Open Office Design
 

Appleaker

macrumors 68020
Jun 13, 2016
2,197
4,193
"It doesn’t make sense to hire smart people and then tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do." - STEVE JOBS


I’m not surprised, the whole ‘open and collaborative work space’ stuff can go to far, and it’s become a joke. They should be building it around employee needs.
 
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zorinlynx

macrumors G3
May 31, 2007
8,133
17,434
Florida, USA
I don't understand this push towards open floor plan offices.

Software development and engineering are highly focused activities. You get "in the zone" and work on your problem to find a solution. You might have several things going on in your head at once that all have to be there to figure out the problem.

Having people walking by, interrupting you and otherwise hassling you when you're in "the zone" can set you back quite a bit. At least for software developers and engineers, open floor plans are a horrible idea. At the very least have cube walls that come up high enough to give you a more quiet space.

I personally have an "office" with walls that don't go up to the ceiling, such that I can hear things going on outside even though when the door is shut, no one can see me. And even with that, stuff going on outside my office can distract me and throw off my train of thought. It must be horrible for workers in true open plan offices.
 

benroberts3

macrumors regular
Oct 18, 2012
126
263
Kansas City
First off, it's pretty sad to see people complain about something like this. The campus looks amazing and most people on the outside looking in would probably say it's an incredible design and a great place to be.

Regarding the quote below:
"They emailed Gruber, telling him that they're working on something that is "going to blow people's minds when we ship," but before that happens their team is transitioning to Apple Park. Gruber noted that the email was very level-headed and had a "perfect Apple sensibility," but the source nevertheless said that if they don't like the Apple Park workspaces, they're likely to leave the company after the product ships."

This person can enjoy their new "open desk" for another 2-3 years since this so called "mind blowing" product won't ship for quite a while. The next big thing is the HomePod which is slated for December.
 

Reason077

macrumors 68040
Aug 14, 2007
3,585
3,522
Welcome to the real world, pampered Apple employees! That office space looks pretty luxurious (and spacious!) compared to many I've worked in. For most of us, the days of private offices - or even cubicles - are long gone.

In any case, it's Apple we're talking about here. There'll be no shortage of qualified candidates lining up to take their jobs if they can't handle such hardships!
 

Zirel

Suspended
Jul 24, 2015
2,196
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Of corse, the same well known liars are going to make anything up that nobody can say it’s true or false, because 99% of people will willingly ignore the “alleged” part of the title (like MR just did), which in journalistic terms means “we ran out of actual news, so we are making stuff so we can sell ads”.

Apple makes a closed space = Apple Campus is a tasteless cubicle land! See how Google is so much better because they have open spaces! Apple’s culture of secrecy blah blah some BS!

Apple makes an open space = Open spaces are bad and Apple employees are reuniting underground seeking to overthrow the government.

Btw, WSJ is a front for Google, why didn’t they publish the fact that Google is trying to patent the work of a Polish mathematician in the US as their own invention? http://www.pap.pl/en/news-/news,103...es-right-to-patent-polish-coding-concept.html

Is this less important than some jibber jabber clickbait BS?
 
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DavidLeblond

macrumors 68020
Jan 6, 2004
2,321
599
Raleigh, NC
I don't understand this push towards open floor plan offices.

Software development and engineering are highly focused activities. You get "in the zone" and work on your problem to find a solution. You might have several things going on in your head at once that all have to be there to figure out the problem.

Having people walking by, interrupting you and otherwise hassling you when you're in "the zone" can set your back quite a bit. At least for software developers and engineers, open floor plans are a horrible idea. At the very least have cube walls that come up high enough to give you a more quiet space.

I think the idea is everyone should be focused and thus no one will be interrupted. Of course this only works as a concept. Probably come up with by a dude in a private office.
 

GeneralChang

macrumors 68000
Dec 2, 2013
1,660
1,488
As an employee at a company with an open office floorplan like this, I can confirm that it really does bug the heck out of some people. Other people really like it. The rest of us are just really easily distracted. I suspect Apple's employees will find a similar spread of reactions.
 

tkukoc

Cancelled
Sep 16, 2014
1,533
1,915
Open offices are horrible, having worked in multiple types. I couldn't stand hearing everyone all the time. If it was sectioned off by group it might not be terrible but extreme open is just not a good working environment for me.. to others it might be fine.
 
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HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
I’m not surprised, the whole ‘open and collaborative work space’ stuff can be annoying. They should be building it around employee needs.

What??? Needs???

What Apple needs to do is hold a "big reveal" show and tell those employees why they should love it as Apple has chosen to serve it up. Then bask in the "Shut up and take my privacy & quiet" chorus.

If that doesn't work, refer them to fanbase-loaded websites and the usual players will then rip into them for not loving exactly what Apple has chosen to "sell" (er provide for) them... slinging some "don't like it? Leave your job you ungrateful #$%!@%" and maybe a dash of "I think it is a perfect environment they should love" (and I'm calling that perfection from my armchair without even being close to such an environment or trying to do a job like coding in one).

Can these employees ultimately be called "trolls" if they come back with logical counterpoint instead of just accepting the fan's "tow the company line" rationale?

Besides, I've already heard that "99.9% of Apple employees want it exactly as it has been designed." And I've heard that floor spaces that differ in any way are "abominations" and "antiquated" as opposed to the "the future" that all should love forevermore... or until Apple might choose to change it- whatever comes first.

All ;)
 
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DonReiberGraphix

macrumors newbie
Jun 8, 2015
2
24
I am sure Apple has some sort of plan or mechanism to change or reallocate space as they see fit for secluded team areas or individual offices. Maybe they are waiting for team and staff to fill in to see what is needed and what functions better for certain departments.
 

danapellerin

macrumors newbie
Apr 11, 2017
2
23
There's always a certain amount of people who act like spoiled brats every time there's change. Suck it up. I've been at my company (a hospital) for 20 years and they've crammed us into all sorts of environments. I sat in the basement by the morgue, with no windows, for a few years so excuse me if I don't have sympathy for people moving into the nicest building on the planet.
 

GeneralChang

macrumors 68000
Dec 2, 2013
1,660
1,488
I don't understand this push towards open floor plan offices.

Software development and engineering are highly focused activities. You get "in the zone" and work on your problem to find a solution. You might have several things going on in your head at once that all have to be there to figure out the problem.

Having people walking by, interrupting you and otherwise hassling you when you're in "the zone" can set you back quite a bit. At least for software developers and engineers, open floor plans are a horrible idea. At the very least have cube walls that come up high enough to give you a more quiet space.

I personally have an "office" with walls that don't go up to the ceiling, such that I can hear things going on outside even though when the door is shut, no one can see me. And even with that, stuff going on outside my office can distract me and throw off my train of thought. It must be horrible for workers in true open plan offices.
It's very much a YMMV sort of thing. Like you, we've got some engineers that really hate getting distracted, even if they're wearing quality noise-cancelling headphones, by someone just walking past. Some of our other engineers really appreciate being able to bounce ideas off of each other and actually work better in that situation. The best solution may actually be to have an office that's half-and-half, so you can accommodate both personality types.
 

zorinlynx

macrumors G3
May 31, 2007
8,133
17,434
Florida, USA
It's very much a YMMV sort of thing. Like you, we've got some engineers that really hate getting distracted, even if they're wearing quality noise-cancelling headphones, by someone just walking past. Some of our other engineers really appreciate being able to bounce ideas off of each other and actually work better in that situation. The best solution may actually be to have an office that's half-and-half, so you can accommodate both personality types.

One nifty idea would be to have cube walls you can raise and lower as needed.

The need for privacy isn't a constant one. Sometimes you're concentrating on a software dev issue, other times you're designing something with your coworkers. It varies.
 

brian3uk

macrumors 6502
Sep 15, 2016
393
1,362
I have to agree with the open office hate. If coworkers were considerate then it might not be a big issue but they rarely are. Some folks are more immune to ambient office noise and just assume everyone else is too. They talk too loud, hit their keyboards too hard, eat lunch at their desk, chew gum loudly, cough, sneeze, click their pens, and so much more. You don't notice just how noisy other people are until you're surrounded all day long.
 
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