Some Developers Say Apple Letting Apps Like Netflix and Spotify Share a Link to Web for Account Sign-Up Isn't Enough

[rjohnstone]

Sorry Developers, but as an Apple customer I DO want one App Store, and one simple fast method of payment. This will become a hot mess if I have to click a link and set up an account & pay with each Dev. Not gonna happen. I. Just. Won't. Buy.

That's you... you do not speak for all Apple customers.
Some of us actually want options for installing apps. No, I'm not talking about pirating apps, but being able to install apps that Apple rejects for App store distribution.
No one is asking that all users be forced to use multiple app stores. We would just like the option.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

It's a two way relationship. Apple needs devs and devs need Apple.

“Two way relationship” is NOT the same as “equal relationship”, though. In order to see where the power resides in this particular situation, imagine if the App Store were to shut down tomorrow. There are many developers that would find themselves without an income stream. Apple would lose some millions, but they will still continue to sell hardware and other services that their customers want.

 

[LeadingHeat]

It's a two way relationship. Apple needs devs and devs need Apple.
Without devs, there would be no App Store.
I'm not saying devs should have a free ride, but the pricing structure and rules Apple has used is the issue.
Apple could charge more for dev licenses to cover hosting and distribution costs. $99 per year is pretty cheap.
Up the license fee and drop the IAP requirement... offer it, but don't make it mandatory and change the cut they take to say 5% or 10% along with the fee increase.
I'm sure a lot of smaller devs like it well enough, but larger companies really can handle financial transactions just fine.
Apple getting a cut of subscriptions is absurd as they have zero involvement with delivery of that type of service.
I never understood how any company would have ever agreed to this fee. I can understand a one time transaction fee if it were setup through IAP, but 15-30% for basically processing a credit card swipe is obscene.

It’s not Apple’s handling of the end result (the final cc swipe), but how the customer got to that decision and situation that Apple deserves credit/compensation for. Without the App Store and it’s internal marketing, the APIs and countless other milestones leading up to that purchase, it wouldn’t have happened or at least would have been much more painful for the customer/developer to get there.

I think that’s where Apple sees the value in charging that percentage.

 

[rjohnstone]

“Two way relationship” is NOT the same as “equal relationship”, though. In order to see where the power resides in this particular situation, imagine if the App Store were to shut down tomorrow. There are many developers that would find themselves without an income stream. Apple would lose some millions, but they will still continue to sell hardware and other services that their customers want.

Not really... If Apple shut down the App Store, customers would leave in droves. Apple's value would drop like a stone almost over night.
Apple NEEDS third party devs to keep customers happy.

 

[Red Menace]

Keep it up, and there won’t be an App Store. Then you will have to race to the bottom like everyone else.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Some of us actually want options for installing apps. No, I'm not talking about pirating apps, but being able to install apps that Apple rejects for App store distribution.

YOU aren’t talking about pirating apps, but any Android developer can tell you that their ability to make money on iOS would be tanked if iOS had an Android-like method of installing apps.

Either that OR we accept the notion that Android users, out of ALL platforms, are the ONLY ones that don’t want to pay for apps Those Android users that will buy PC apps, Xbox apps, PlayStation apps but NOT apps for their Android device, ahh, let’s leave those out of the equation!

 

[rjohnstone]

It’s not Apple’s handling of the end result (the final cc swipe), but how the customer got to that decision and situation that Apple deserves credit/compensation for. Without the App Store and it’s internal marketing, the APIs and countless other milestones leading up to that purchase, it wouldn’t have happened or at least would have been much more painful for the customer/developer to get there.

I think that’s where Apple sees the value in charging that percentage.

The problem here is more and more devs are not seeing the value from Apple.
And again... Apple should charge more per year for a dev license to cover the toolset since devs are the only ones using them.

 

[JUiCEJamie]

Give an inch, take a mile.

 

[rjohnstone]

YOU aren’t talking about pirating apps, but any Android developer can tell you that their ability to make money on iOS would be tanked if iOS had an Android-like method of installing apps.

Either that OR we accept the notion that Android users, out of ALL platforms, are the ONLY ones that don’t want to pay for apps Those Android users that will buy PC apps, Xbox apps, PlayStation apps but NOT apps for their Android device, ahh, let’s leave those out of the equation!

Given that Google made over $2.7 billion just in subscription revenue from the Play store last year (this doesn't include app sales of over $40 billion in 2020), I think it's a fallacy to say that Android users don't want to pay for apps.

 

[Cosmosent]

Apple's position will actually change very, very soon !

The Court of Public Opinion will force Apple to make changes !

 

[Red Menace]

Apple should charge more per year for a dev license to cover the toolset since devs are the only ones using them.

More for a developer license or toolset isn’t going to work, either. Apparently you don’t remember the sh**storm that happened when Apple had the audacity to charge $5 for Xcode.

 

[0924487]

Not trying to be sympathetic to one of the most valued companies ever, but, Apple can not win here no matter what it does.

To summarize:

• Treat every developer the same, they get grief
• Treat subscriptions differently after the first year, they get grief
• Treat small developers differently (better rate), they get grief
• Allow reader apps to have one link to bypass the IAP, they get grief
• Apple has a purposely low annual fee to encourage more developers, they get grief that this fee should cover everything

Newsflash - Apple is not a charity.

Think about it this way - every one of us wants to get paid the most possible for doing our jobs. There are millions of free apps littered with ads that benefit from the App Store, and aside from the $99/year or whatever it is, Apple sees $0 from. They pay people to review apps, they store the apps, they pay the bandwidth for those apps to be downloaded, etc. But, yeah, a free app with ads that submits a new app update 6 times a year is clearly making Apple a profit.

”But they can afford it!” - only for so long. They start operating as a charity and then what?

But why should I subsidize your clients? Just like Taylor Swift vs. Apple Music or Apple vs. Qualcomm.

 

[johannnn]

“Some developers”

Some developers will never be happy. Never adjust your product or company to “some” customers.

 

[rjohnstone]

More for a developer license or toolset isn’t going to work, either. Apparently you don’t remember the sh**storm that happened when Apple had the audacity to charge $5 for Xcode.

I do actually and it made me laugh.
$5 is a hell of a lot cheaper than what MS charges for Visual Studio license.

I gladly pay my $99 fee to Apple. I pay MS $599 per year for my VS Pro subscription. It's the cost of doing business.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Not really... If Apple shut down the App Store, customers would leave in droves. Apple's value would drop like a stone almost over night.

Customers would sell the iPhone they had and buy a new one immediately? No. Customers, when looking at a new phone would prize apps over the OS, the security, the familiarity, etc.?

Customers made Apple a top selling cellular phone maker BEFORE the App Store existed. The iPhone PRIOR to the App Store made Cingular (AT&T wireless) a NICE chunk of change with its exclusivity.

Apple doesn’t NEED third party developers. Apple NEEDS suppliers. They NEED distribution chains. Without those things, they cease to exist. Without developers, they’re still a multinational corporation making billions. Without Apple, those iOS only developers are zero. (And the cross platform ones have just lost the lions share of their income)

 

[mariusignorello]

Not trying to be sympathetic to one of the most valued companies ever, but, Apple can not win here no matter what it does.

To summarize:

• Treat every developer the same, they get grief
• Treat subscriptions differently after the first year, they get grief
• Treat small developers differently (better rate), they get grief
• Allow reader apps to have one link to bypass the IAP, they get grief
• Apple has a purposely low annual fee to encourage more developers, they get grief that this fee should cover everything

Newsflash - Apple is not a charity.

Think about it this way - every one of us wants to get paid the most possible for doing our jobs. There are millions of free apps littered with ads that benefit from the App Store, and aside from the $99/year or whatever it is, Apple sees $0 from. They pay people to review apps, they store the apps, they pay the bandwidth for those apps to be downloaded, etc. But, yeah, a free app with ads that submits a new app update 6 times a year is clearly making Apple a profit.

”But they can afford it!” - only for so long. They start operating as a charity and then what?

It’s all fun and games until you run out of someone’s money.

 

[DHagan4755]

Apple should quit the death by a thousand cuts of its actions & just open the whole friggin thing up. Stop trying to be greedy money grubbing whores & set the way of the future. And, also, let people who want to side load apps, like we can do on macOS, do it on iOS & iPadOS for crying out loud.

 

[ksec]

These so called reader Apps doesn't even need a Sign up Button in the first place. They were forced upon in 2016 when Apple slowly mandate they all required a signup in Apps. And for a lot of reason it makes sense. They are nothing more that a screen accessing content on Server. The App is better than the Web because it has a simple easy to use button on the Home Screen. Comparing to Adding it to your home screen from Safari which 99.9% of consumer doesn't know or want to do.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Given that Google made over $2.7 billion just in subscription revenue from the Play store last year (this doesn't include app sales of over $40 billion in 2020), I think it's a fallacy to say that Android users don't want to pay for apps.

42.7 billion split among how many phones? Split among how many developers? Remember Android is the top selling Smartphone OS in the world… how does that number compare against their consumer unfriendly, locked down, smaller unit sales competition? iOS revenue beat Android by a loooong way?

Wonder why that is? Perhaps the “consumer unfriendly” solution actually makes consumers feel MORE consumery

 

[bousozoku]

I can almost hear someone shouting "We want whatever we want...and more!!!"

Enough will never be enough.

I remember someone on MacRumors (around 2005?) telling me that I should do software development for free. I might have asked "Will you support me with a free room, free transportation, free food?" because how can you live without money in this current world?

How many people with supersized egos believe that they deserve everything and more?

 

[rjohnstone]

Customers would sell the iPhone they had and buy a new one immediately? No. Customers, when looking at a new phone would prize apps over the OS, the security, the familiarity, etc.?

Customers made Apple a top selling cellular phone maker BEFORE the App Store existed. The iPhone PRIOR to the App Store made Cingular (AT&T wireless) a NICE chunk of change with its exclusivity.

Apple doesn’t NEED third party developers. Apple NEEDS suppliers. They NEED distribution chains. Without those things, they cease to exist. Without developers, they’re still a multinational corporation making billions. Without Apple, those iOS only developers are zero. (And the cross platform ones have just lost the lions share of their income)

Trying to compare the market in 2010 with the market today is absurd.
App availability is what helps sell a device.
Apple NEEDS apps and they have already proven time and again that they kind of suck at it lately. Their battery killing, CPU cooking Podcast app comes to mind.

 

[Timster83]

Think about it this way - every one of us wants to get paid the most possible for doing our jobs. There are millions of free apps littered with ads that benefit from the App Store, and aside from the $99/year or whatever it is, Apple sees $0 from. They pay people to review apps, they store the apps, they pay the bandwidth for those apps to be downloaded, etc. But, yeah, a free app with ads that submits a new app update 6 times a year is clearly making Apple a profit.

”But they can afford it!” - only for so long. They start operating as a charity and then what?

Apple, after all, put themselves in the position of adopting these costs.

Companies like Epic think they can do the same thing for cheaper.

Competition in the market isn't a bad thing right?

The problem here is more and more devs are not seeing the value from Apple.
And again... Apple should charge more per year for a dev license to cover the toolset since devs are the only ones using them.

The Microsoft Visual Studio model is quite a nice one. It's free for individual use but starts at $45 per business user, with no ongoing commission based model unless you decide to use MS services.

Microsoft is probably the benchmark for companies who value their developer community to aspire too.

 

[0924487]

More for a developer license or toolset isn’t going to work, either. Apparently you don’t remember the sh**storm that happened when Apple had the audacity to charge $5 for Xcode.

Apple should charge based on downloads. Like $15 per 100 downloads or updates + $1 per gigabyte transfer + $20 per app review + $100 dollar per app review reject + $5 per gigabyte per month hosting fee + $10 per 100 search displayed + $1 per placement ads displayed + $10 per click through install.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I can almost hear someone shouting "We want whatever we want...and more!!!"

Enough will never be enough.

I remember someone on MacRumors (around 2005?) telling me that I should do software development for free. I might have asked "Will you support me with a free room, free transportation, free food?" because how can you live without money in this current world?

How many people with supersized egos believe that they deserve everything and more?

I would imagine many of the same developers thought it was unfair when their parents wanted them to pay a part of the mortgage after they finish college and came back to live at home.

 

[rjohnstone]

42.7 billion split among how many phones? Split among how many developers? Remember Android is the top selling Smartphone OS in the world… how does that number compare against their consumer unfriendly, locked down, smaller unit sales competition? iOS revenue beat Android by a loooong way?

Wonder why that is? Perhaps the “consumer unfriendly” solution actually makes consumers feel MORE consumery

Deflection noted.
Moving along.