Nonsensical speculation. Using the same kind of fallacy we could say that if not for Facebook and Instagram there would be a lot less iPhone users.
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Some Developers Say Apple Letting Apps Like Netflix and Spotify Share a Link to Web for Account Sign-Up Isn't Enough
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Nonsensical speculation. Using the same kind of fallacy we could say that if not for Facebook and Instagram there would be a lot less iPhone users.
And also the same who complain about something they knew from the start but never leave. IDC about their complaints.
I left. I just make web apps now. Other devs can have fun dealing with Apple's nonsense, not me.
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Yes, there would be a lot fewer iPhone users.
Getting technical here, one big issue is that web apps can't send iPhone push notifications. This seems to be intentional on Apple's part since they have no problem doing that on macOS or Android.
Yeah... I know there are a bunch of reasons why developers want native apps.
I was just speaking semi-sarcastically...
I will say it doesn’t go far enough in helping the consumer.
The most ideal solution, from an end-user’s perspective, is still being able to subscribe directly within the app itself. It also allows me the track my subscriptions directly via iTunes. I lose this benefit for subscriptions not paid for via iTunes.
But we know that more and more developers are increasingly reluctant to implement this because it means having to pay Apple a cut.
And so, here we are.
Well, they want Apple to just support web push notifications.Yeah... I know there are a bunch of reasons why developers want native apps.
I was just speaking semi-sarcastically...
Yeah. Netflix is the only one I have done it. And original I did have it via Apple.
I just hope if they expend they make in app a requirement as well. I wouldn’t trust. A link. I’d be going out to safari and search the company. I’m not going to go to that effort for many things.
I must say, you all MR members called this out the very first minute the JFTC article came out, one comment comes to mind right there at the top (forgive me not remembering the user), “it has begun” it said.
I dont agree with your points, which are being stretched. Net neutrality isn’t about applications , it’s about keeping the lanes of the internet from being regulated by fiefdoms.
Exactly.
And you wanna know what's funny about all of this?
None of these lawsuits were filed by consumers.
Epic (a major developer), Spotify (a major developer), and now we've got Japan, India, the EU, and now the US looking into this.
But no one asked consumers what they wanted from their the Apple experience... and no one is looking to solve problems that consumers are having.
Hell... I keep hearing tons of comments here saying they like having Apple handle their subscriptions in one place. And that they don't want to visit tons of different websites to keep track of all their subscriptions. And that they don't want to give some random company their credit card number. It'll be consumers who will be more frustrated once all these new policies go into effect.
So you're exactly right. If these changes don't look like they go far enough to help the consumer... it's because these changes were not designed to help the consumer.
It's billion dollar companies filing lawsuits against trillion dollar companies... with a few nations thrown in the mix too...
🤣
If App Store is genuinely a marketplace like some people claim, perhaps it should have similar profit margins! For comparison, Walmart's profit margin is about 3% (https://ycharts.com/companies/WMT/profit_margin). Even lucrative Amazon achieves only 6% recently (https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/profit-margins). But Apple's App Store is a stunning 78%! (https://www.bloombergquint.com/tech...-had-78-profit-margin-in-2019-testimony-shows) You can't find a more lucrative business! As basic economics tells us, extremely high profit suggests insufficient competition and possibly monopoly.
I think the problem is that both sides know what it is the consumer wants, but nobody wants to be the one to have to give in.
For the developer, allowing me to subscribe directly within the app means surrounding 30/15% of all revenue to Apple. I think for a smaller developer, this is still worth the ease of customer acquisition (I am subscribed to fantastical in this manner; it was easy for me to create an account using "sign in with Apple" and subscribe directly via iTunes. I am unlikely to have done so via their website because I am lazy like that, I am not interested in sharing my personal and payment details with too many companies, and the reality is that more people use iPhones than Macs).
But for larger companies like Spotify and Netflix with ongoing costs, it's a lot of money, and I see why they would want to have their cake and eat it too. It's easy to then point a finger to Apple and say "You could make all this friction go away by allowing third party payments within the app itself, or lowering the cut to say 5% so they are indifferent to using iTunes billing", but the reality is that the App Store incurs costs which are paid for from this 30% of revenue from developers (not forgetting that the majority of apps are free and generate no income for Apple beyond that $99 developer fee). You also run the risk of apps becoming defacto app stores in themselves, threatening the entire App Store model).
Personally, if it were up to me, I would just rule that the 30% cut applies only to games (because IAPs are where the bulk of Apple's App Store revenue comes from anyways), and for everything else, developers either get to keep 100% or pay Apple a token sum to cover payment processing fees. This lets Epic usher in the new world order they have been pushing for all this while, but they will have no place in it.
I have wondered why they don’t just charge a premium if apps want to use their own payment system. Apple and it is not a charity, just setting up a fee structure where it costs more to use your own payment system would seem fair.
Yes... I've always thought it was crazy for Apple to charge the full 30% for external services like Netflix or Spotify where the media isn't even coming from Apple's servers.
I like the idea of 5% for those kinds of companies... 3% for the credit card fee and 2% for Apple to maintain your subscription data.
That way... the company isn't getting charged an outrageous amount every month... and you get to keep your subscriptions in once place.
See? They should have asked us!
There are two issues at play here, but ONLY ONE really gets ANY attention, that being Apple's cut (& iron-clad control of it).
The other issue, IMO, the biggest issue that affects many more apps, is the very simple fact that Apple's iOS App Store is NO MORE THAN a Marketing Arm of Apple itself.
"App Discovery" is something that Apple's Upper Mgmt simply has too much control over !
As such, this App Dev won't stop until Apple relents, & at-least allows third-party "App Discovery" App Store.
Once that happens, NON-Game Apps will have their Day in the Sun !
The most-important thing to make it happen is New Law, specifically:
Proposed New Law for Apple's iOS App Store
I'm are in favor of New Law that would require Apple to disclose per-Category Revenue Numbers for (at least) the iOS App Store here in the States, & require them to do so at the end of each work week.
Also, that the per-week per-Category Reports should include what percentage was generated by the Top 10 Apps in each category, as well as what percentage of apps in each category generated NO revenue.
So, three columns of data per Category, reported by Apple every week.
---
Once it becomes Common Knowledge that 90% OR so of Apple's App Store Revenue comes from Game Apps, Apple will need to relent, & allow competition (for App Discovery) in the NON-Game App space !
Specifically, (NON-Game App-focused) "App Discovery" App Stores !
I'm convinced of that.
And, the heat has just-begun to be turned-up on Apple !
Give it 1-2 more weeks, & then see what's going to happen ...
The other issue, IMO, the biggest issue that affects many more apps, is the very simple fact that Apple's iOS App Store is NO MORE THAN a Marketing Arm of Apple itself.
"App Discovery" is something that Apple's Upper Mgmt simply has too much control over !
As such, this App Dev won't stop until Apple relents, & at-least allows third-party "App Discovery" App Store.
Once that happens, NON-Game Apps will have their Day in the Sun !
The most-important thing to make it happen is New Law, specifically:
Proposed New Law for Apple's iOS App Store
I'm are in favor of New Law that would require Apple to disclose per-Category Revenue Numbers for (at least) the iOS App Store here in the States, & require them to do so at the end of each work week.
Also, that the per-week per-Category Reports should include what percentage was generated by the Top 10 Apps in each category, as well as what percentage of apps in each category generated NO revenue.
So, three columns of data per Category, reported by Apple every week.
---
Once it becomes Common Knowledge that 90% OR so of Apple's App Store Revenue comes from Game Apps, Apple will need to relent, & allow competition (for App Discovery) in the NON-Game App space !
Specifically, (NON-Game App-focused) "App Discovery" App Stores !
I'm convinced of that.
And, the heat has just-begun to be turned-up on Apple !
Give it 1-2 more weeks, & then see what's going to happen ...
That seems to be the opposite of what the developers want. 🤣
You're saying the developers should be able to use their own payment system... fine.
But then you want Apple's cut to be more? Why would any developer do that?
The whole reason developers want to use their own payment system (and want lower fees in general) is to pay less to Apple! Which puts more money in their pocket!
How about this:
If a developer wants Apple to handle ALL payment activity in the App Store... the fee is the usual 15% for small devs and 30% for large devs.
But if a developer wants to handle their own payments for IAP... Apple's fee drops to 10% for small devs and 25% for large devs. Then you're on your own to setup Stripe or PayPal or whatever.
And like I said in an earlier comment... external "reader app" services like Netflix and Spotify should be on a different plan altogether. They can pay 5% for Apple to handle the payments and subscription data in-app... or they pay 0% if they want to handle everything themselves by having customers signup on their website.
I dunno... I'm just spitballin' here...
Remind me again how much the Nintendo switch App Store is charging for their games?
Hmmm... I guess I'd rather be Apple's App Store than Amazon or Walmart.
Do you have data about the Google Play store? Or another similar app store?
Because let's be honest... Walmart is a COMPLETELY different type of business. They have 10,000 stores, trucks, distribution centers, and the big one... 2,300,000 employees to manage.
Any time you're dealing in the physical space... it's expensive.
The digital space is much different.
I believe Google's digital online advertising business has a profit margin of around 60%
Is that good or bad? Normal or obscene?
Why would that be fair? Especially when some of the biggest players either charge nothing and don’t require a payment system (Facebook, Instagram) or are ’reader’ apps that also don’t cost anything and don’t have IAP.
What is 30% other than a number someone pulled out of thin air? Considering the growth in Apple’s service revenues over time it’s clear this is a lucrative business for them. Phil Schiller was right in 2011 when he said Apple should make changes from a position of strength. Unfortunately Steve Jobs died and the Wall Street went into a panic after the iPhone 6/6s cycle which is when the company pivoted towards growing services revenues and squeezing every $ they can out of developers.Hmmm... I guess I'd rather be Apple's App Store than Amazon or Walmart.
Do you have data about the Google Play store? Or another similar app store?
Because let's be honest... Walmart is a COMPLETELY different type of business. They have 10,000 stores, trucks, distribution centers, and the big one... 2,300,000 employees to manage.
Any time you're dealing in the physical space... it's expensive.
The digital space is much different.
I believe Google's digital online advertising business has a profit margin of around 60%
Is that good or bad? Normal or obscene?
Yep... Apple chose 30% and people actually loved it. It was a much better deal than the former software distribution deals of yore.
But if 30% is no longer acceptable today... someone PLEASE tell Apple what number to use.
I'm sick of opening MacRumors and seeing a new article every day about some new lawsuit from a developer or some new country starting investigations into Apple and the App Store. The news about Japan and India was just this week alone!
Just fix it already!
Small developers should stop complaining.
The issue was apps like Netflix who’s content is outside of the “App Store”. There is no way in hell Apple should get a 30% cut from all the movies and TV shows Netflix produces.
Small developers are the ones that rely on Apple their infrastructure (including promotions), so they should pay for it.
The issue was apps like Netflix who’s content is outside of the “App Store”. There is no way in hell Apple should get a 30% cut from all the movies and TV shows Netflix produces.
Small developers are the ones that rely on Apple their infrastructure (including promotions), so they should pay for it.
At the end of the day the consumer is always the one getting screwed. A) Subscribe through App Store, convenient but 30% more expensive so the developer can recoup Apple’s cut. B) Add a link to save the 30%, now I have to go follow a link to a payment processing service, pull out my credit card and hope that it eventually doesn’t get compromised in some data hack.
So basically the developer is not passing any savings to us consumers at all, I am the one having to jump hoops to save the developer 30%. Yes, argue all you want about Apple’s expensive fees (which they are), but don’t get me, the user, involved in back office business. This whole fight over the 30% cost of doing business is “user hostile” (damn I hate that phrase).
So basically the developer is not passing any savings to us consumers at all, I am the one having to jump hoops to save the developer 30%. Yes, argue all you want about Apple’s expensive fees (which they are), but don’t get me, the user, involved in back office business. This whole fight over the 30% cost of doing business is “user hostile” (damn I hate that phrase).