Some noob questions about Aperture

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by iRock1, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. iRock1 macrumors 6502a

    iRock1

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2011
    #1
    Hi there.

    I've just moved from iPhoto to Aperture and there are some things that I don't fully get yet. Even though I have more questions, I'd like you to answer only two for now :D:

    1) I've taken some pictures in RAW, with my Canon Rebel T3, in black and white (I selected that mode in the camera). The previews look good in Aperture, but after I import those photos to my library and I open them, the pictures change to natural colors.

    Why and how does this happen? Also, how is it possible that the true colors are stored in the original files, if I chose from the moment I took the photos that I wanted them in B&W and not in colors?

    2) Is it possible to delete all or some specific pictures from my SD card at any moment? Certainly Aperture can do this if I want after importing some photos, but I need to know if it's possible at any time and with any photo that I want – not only the ones that I've just imported. (Damn, even the basic Image Capture app can do this.)

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. neutrino23 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2003
    Location:
    SF Bay area
    #2
    If you move or repost this in the photography section you'll get more answers.

    I'm not sure about deleting photos. I usually keep them for a while to make sure I have them backed up then delete them in the camera. I don't know of a way to delete them in Aperture except for the one you mentioned. Might be another way, I don't know.

    If you are keeping RAW files then you are keeping color information even though the camera was set to display B&W. This is the idea behind RAW files. You keep all of the information then from that extract the kind of image you want.

    Under the Help menu select Aperture Help and then search for Black and White. There is a discussion of this topic. Aperture provides a few tools for adjusting the tones of your B&W image.
     
  3. MCAsan macrumors 601

    MCAsan

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    #3
    The point of shooting raw files is to capture as much data as possible to work with later in post processing. Telling a camera to show B&W is not going with that flow. Capture all the data, including all the color channels, and use that color data to create just the right B&W image.

    Personally I send my color raw files to Nik's Silver Efex Pro (can be a plugin to Aperture or Lightroom). It is the best B&W creator I have found.
     
  4. ChrisA macrumors G4

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    Redondo Beach, California
    #4
    the RAW file always contains all the data from the images sensor with zero processing applied. When you tell your camera (or Aperture) to make an black and white image, or to do any other adjustment, that appies ONLY to the RAW to JPG conversion. So the B&W setting has no effect of you save only the RAW file. RAW files are NOT images. You can't look at them. They are just raw data readouts from the sensor and they are NEVER adjusted either by the camera or by Aperture.




    You can delete files from an SD card using the finder. Just the same way as you trash any other file. Just remember to empty the trash.
     
  5. deeddawg macrumors 604

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    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    US
    #5
    What is your reason for moving from iPhoto to Aperture? Is it possible to limp along with iPhoto for a few months?

    Personally I'd consider carefully before investing much time or effort into Aperture given that it's and End-of-Life product. It'll work in Yosemite, Apple's committed to that, but beyond that is anyone's guess.

    I imagine the upcoming Photos app next year will eventually provide much of Aperture's functionality, but we do not know how much or when. Tread carefully using Aperture specific capabilities and keep in mind that in time you will have to move off of it eventually and nobody know what that migration process might look like.
     
  6. iRock1 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    iRock1

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    Apr 23, 2011
    #6
    Thanks to everyone for your answers.

    Sorry if I insist with the dumb questions, but I want to make sure I understand this.

    What do you mean by the RAW to JPG conversion when I tell my camera to make a B&W image?

    I sort of get that RAW files are “negatives” and they contain all the information, but then I don't get the purpose of changing the “color mode” from normal to realistic or B&W. Also, I'm not sure that any other adjustment won't affect the RAW file. Would that mean that it doesn't matter if I change the ISO or F as well?

    Wow, that's a PITA. Having to browse through the folders structure in the SD card... Isn't a more comfortable way of doing so?

    I'm well aware of the Aperture's case. However, when the end arrives I'll see if I migrate to Lightroom or the new Photos app, depending on the result.

    Honestly I don't fully understand your concerns, as the iPhoto and Aperture libraries are the same.

    BTW, I moved from iPhoto to Aperture because the former started to look too limited.

    I have another question about Aperture. When I select import photos from the SD card, I'm totally blind about the current progress, while in iPhoto I can see a very simple progress bar that indicates how much I have to wait. Is there a way of solving that?
     
  7. pezdaddy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
    #7
    Black and white is not handled within a RAW file. If you want a B&W image straight out of the camera, you'll have to shoot in JPG.

    Your camera has a color sensor (most do...there is only one camera that I can think of that has a black and white sensor, made by Leica), so you will always capture a color image, in RAW. Black and white conversion is handled by the JPG settings in your camera.

    ISO, Fstop, and shutter speed all affect the sensor however, If you change these settings, it will affect the image that your sensor captures. You cannot change these in a RAW file.

    Lastly, the color temp you set in camera will affect the RAW file, but this can easily be changed in software. The RAW file respects the camera color temperature, and it will be displayed on your computer when you view the image, but it is not "burned" into the file.

    Make sense?
     
  8. iRock1 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    iRock1

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    Apr 23, 2011
    #8
    Absolutely.

    However your explanation leads me to another question. When I insert the SD card into my iMac, Aperture generates a grid with thumbnails before the importing process starts. In those thumbnails I can see the RAW files in B&W. Why do they appear like that?

    I can event go further. It turns out that after importing the photos, when I open them up I can see them in B&W for just a few seconds, then Aperture automatically turns them back to their “real color”. Again, why?
     
  9. r.harris1 macrumors 6502a

    r.harris1

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    #9
    My guess here is that your preferences are set for Aperture to use the JPEG preview embedded in your RAW file (check Preferences->Import) and that will be B&W since that's what you had your camera set to. As it converts the render to RAW, which is color image data, there may be a delay while it does that render to your screen so you may see the JPEG preview for a brief period until the RAW processing is complete.
     
  10. simonsi macrumors 601

    simonsi

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    Auckland
    #10
    Aperture only has control, and can therefore delete, over images in its library, i.e. those imported. If you wish to delete images prior to import then <just> select them in a Finder window and delete them from there (drag to Trash, context menu and Move to Trash, select and hit cmd delete are some of the methods). Remember to actually recover the space you then have to empty the Trash.
     
  11. crb595 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    #11
    You might want to check out apertureexpert.com. It has a wealth of information and a forum where you can post questions just like this one. There is also an upcoming live training session that specifically references color and B&W adjustments.
     
  12. iRock1 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    iRock1

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    Apr 23, 2011
    #12

    That session seems to be finished by two days. Also, I have to pay.
     
  13. BJMRamage macrumors 68020

    BJMRamage

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    Oct 2, 2007
    #13
    to answer a question you posted earlier...

    When you import, if you import into an event you should see a Circle getting filled as it imports. Similar to the Application downloading/installing Circle you see in iOS7.
     
  14. robgendreau macrumors 68040

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    Jul 13, 2008
    #14
    It's good to remember and emphasize that you never see RAW images. Because, as was noted above, they aren't images. They are just files of data.

    Any computer, or even your camera, which is itself a computer, has to generate a jpg image file for you to look at from the RAW. These are usually called previews. Even after you've imported, many of the DAM applications actually show previews, and sometimes you can work just on the previews since it's faster. Obviously the preview generated on the camera is smaller than the preview Aperture or LR would generated. (And the camera-generated preview is stored within the RAW file. There isn't much point in trying to get it out, except for previewing, as LR or Aperture do.)

    And that's why you see a brief BW image. Even if you shoot RAW only, since when you hit the > button to look at your pictures on the camera you have to see something. Aperture uses that preview to give you a chance to select which pictures to import as a sort of courtesy, and then generates its own preview. Since it's a RAW file, it does the right thing and shows you its raw conversion of the RAW file without any changes. And BW is a change to a RAW file since you have a color sensor in your camera, not a BW one.

    Most people who do BW will take a RAW file and convert it to BW on their computer. The camera can do a pretty decent conversion, or apply all sorts of other changes depending on your camera (my Olympus can do art filters, sepia, etc etc). But these are ALL conversions, just like a conversion you'd do in Aperture, LR, Capture One... or even better in Silver Efex or Tonality Pro.
     
  15. kallisti, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014

    kallisti macrumors 65816

    kallisti

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    Apr 22, 2003
    #15
    Thought it might be helpful to explain this in a different way. Going to make some of the same points as posts above, but sometimes a different way of explaining something can make it click.

    When you save an image as a RAW file on your camera, you are saving all the data that the sensor actually recorded. Unless you are using a Leica M Monochrom (whose sensor only records B&W data), there will be color information in the file. The important thing to remember when saving images on your camera in RAW is that it is the "raw" sensor data. Any adjustments you have changed in the camera that influence the picture (like changing saturation, white balance, sharpening, or in your case black & white) have *no* influence on the RAW file. The reason people shoot RAW is that they don't want to have the camera make any changes to the photo, they want to be able to adjust things themselves later.

    Only when you save files in the camera as JPEGs do any of the adjustments mentioned above that are set in your camera's menus carry over to what you see in Aperture (or any other image editing software).

    As mentioned in the above post, if you save a photo in RAW on your camera the data in the file is "raw" data from the sensor without instructions on how to adjust it for display. The RAW doesn't include any of the changes you made in other camera settings. But the camera creates an internal JPEG even when you are saving as RAW, to display on your camera's LCD when reviewing your photos on your camera. This image (preview) *isn't* what the RAW file will look like, it's a JPEG that throws out much of the "raw" sensor data and can apply in-camera settings in the process (like displaying in black & white in your case). This preview is kind of a placeholder and again *isn't* what you will see in Aperture.

    You might reasonably ask: "then why not just save as a JPEG since what I see on my camera's LCD will then be what I see in Aperture?" The answer is that JPEG files are smaller because they throw away a lot of data that was originally recorded by the sensor. Many people prefer having that information available later, so you have more control over what gets thrown out. You can salvage poor exposures. Or choose how the color data get converted to black & white. RAW = more control and choice later. JPEG = less control and choice later.

    Hope this helps rather than further confuses :)
     
  16. iRock1 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    iRock1

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    Apr 23, 2011
    #16
    Thanks, I'll check that.



    Crystal clear. Thank you so much!
     
  17. iRock1 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    iRock1

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    Apr 23, 2011
    #17
    Sorry but I didn't see anything. I imported a bunch of pictures into a new event, but I didn't see anything beyond the “importing” little message, on the bottom of the screen (which includes a spinning wheel, but the sort that the you see near the clock on the iPhone, when there's some Internet activity).

    Also, I've noticed that the auto-split into events option – the one based on the time the photos were taken – doesn't work at all. In iPhoto it used to work like a charm, but in Aperture everything goes into a single event, no matter the time the pictures were taken. What could be the problem?

    Greetings.
     
  18. BJMRamage macrumors 68020

    BJMRamage

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    Oct 2, 2007
    #18
    not sure. i don't Auto Split events.

    as for the importing. i wish i was importing now, and could take a screenshot for you.

    when i import the --and maybe because i am importing into a newly named (by me) Event or whatever that is called, and right next to the name in the left side there is the circle-pie getting filled.
     
  19. BJMRamage macrumors 68020

    BJMRamage

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    Oct 2, 2007
    #19
    this is what I mean. the progress circle/pie.

    I imported but created a new project/folder (I can't remember which is which)

    Screen Shot 2014-08-24 at 10.36.58 PM.png

    hope that works to show what i mean
     
  20. iRock1 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    iRock1

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    Apr 23, 2011
    #20
    Well, as far as I can see, projects work in Aperture exactly like events in iPhoto. Therefore I try to keep that popup menu on the left side panel hidden. Otherwise I'd see an endless list.

    The progress pie definitely is there though. Is that the only indication?
     
  21. BJMRamage macrumors 68020

    BJMRamage

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    Oct 2, 2007
    #21
    I think that's the only notification that shows progress. Otherwise you just see the spinning thing.

    I guess you could open the project/event and watch te photos come in and wait on the last one.
     
  22. simonsi macrumors 601

    simonsi

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    #22
    I think it is Option-click on the "importing" message and a progress box opens showing the progress of all Aperture actions underway, you can pause and resume at will etc...
     
  23. Ray2 macrumors 6502a

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    Jul 8, 2014
    #23
    What limp along for a few months. Its not like Apple is going to kill the app. It will be good for as long as Yosemite or earlier is being used. For many of us, that's years. On the other hand, if you chase the latest and cannot work with something that works, perhaps your point is well taken.

    Personally I'll stick with Aperture until Photos matures. At which point I'll make a decision. By then C1 may have a decent DAM solution as its very Mac centric in its terminology and use.
     
  24. MCAsan macrumors 601

    MCAsan

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    #24

    But if a integrated workflow with 3rd party plugins (photoshop, Nik Collection, Perfect Photo, ...etc.) is important......there are only two DAM/editor editors to select from at this time. You want either Aperture or Lightroom. If you know you never will want/use plugins....then you have many more choices.

    It remains to be seen how Photos will do plugins.
     
  25. r.harris1 macrumors 6502a

    r.harris1

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    #25
    Or how/if plugin vendors respond to Photos. The optimum approach would be to lose the plugin-round trip paradigm in use today in Aperture/LR and use the new core image extensions paradigm against the image without a specific round trip.
     

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