Some specs of Intel G3 SSDs

[Hellhammer]

http://www.techpowerup.com/128811/I...D-based_X25-M_and_X25-V_SSDs_for_Q4_2010.html

According to that, 160GB will replace 80GB and 300GB will replace 160GB plus the new 600GB high-end model. This is likely known but there has been some misinformation so that sums it up pretty well. Release is due in Q4 2010

 

[dr. shdw]

What's crazy is the X-25E jump.

 

[alphaod]

Looks sweet; upgrade my laptop to the 600GB X25-M and get a X25-E for my Mac Pro. Should be nice.

 

[Demthios]

How hopefully the prices will drop as well! Heck even if I can get a 300gb at 400 bucks I would upgrade from my 80gb on then!

 

[MikhailT]

The question will be at what price? Will 25nm process be enough to double the capacity for the same price? How is the supply level, are the fabs pushing them enough to stabilize the costs of the NANDs?

My estimate is that it'll still be $300-400 for 160GB and $500-600 for 300GB with $1000-1200 for 600GB X25-M.

If Intel really wants to be aggressive, it's likely to be $250 for 160GB, $450 for 300GB and 900$ for 600GB. This could happen with a good surplus supply level and good economy, but somehow I doubt this.

 

[Bill Gates]

What's crazy is the X-25E jump.

The X25-E jumped so much because Intel is switching to MLC flash memory (from SLC).

 

[I'mAMac]

Without TRIM support from OS X I'm still not sure if I would buy one. How much performance degradation would be experienced? I assume that it would just keep getting worse over time. There's most likely a manual way to 'trim' it yourself but its probably a pain. Will ever release a patch with trim support or would that be bad for business as it is encouraging people to replace their hard drives😕

 

[TobiasKM]

Doesn't the drive have some Trim feature worked into it?

 

[MikhailT]

Without TRIM support from OS X I'm still not sure if I would buy one. How much performance degradation would be experienced? I assume that it would just keep getting worse over time. There's most likely a manual way to 'trim' it yourself but its probably a pain. Will ever release a patch with trim support or would that be bad for business as it is encouraging people to replace their hard drives😕

Doesn't the drive have some Trim feature worked into it?

The TRIM support is coming, Apple wouldn't add the TRIM status to the System Profiler if they don't intend to support TRIM.

Intel SSDs has an excellent internal garbage collection in them, they'll continue to work well over time and "heal" itself. Not to mention, the bigger the capacity of the SSD, the less likely the performance degradation will occur. It's very hard to push a 300-600GB SSD into the degradation state than a 80GB SSD.

 

[I'mAMac]

Doesn't the drive have some Trim feature worked into it?

Theres a TRIM function tool (for the G2's) that lets you set a specific time for your drive to TRIM but its still only Windows compatible. To my knowledge Apple has no automated/manual TRIM support whatsoever.

Just did some research and found that there is no TRIM support planned for future releases 🙁

I remember somebody posting a way to do it in OS X but I can't remember what it was called (but as you would expect it was long and complicated).

Maybe apple will implement their own SSD maintenance function?

EDIT: Just read the post above. Is there anywhere saying when it will be available?

 

[apolloa]

So what will the difference between the enterprise and the consumer SSD's be then?

 

[Demthios]

The main difference between the consumer and enterprise is the type of flash memory. Consumers use Multi level chips while the Enterprise uses single layer chips. With multi-level you get more space, but with single you get more speed and long life span.

This is all from what I've read if there is more or less info on them I'm sure someone will throw it out there.

 

[Transporteur]

Without TRIM support from OS X I'm still not sure if I would buy one.

The Intel SSDs don't degrade over time as other SSDs do.
I've got a 160GB Postville in my Mac Pro for a year now and it's as fast as on the first day (just benchmarked the drive a few weeks ago).

 

[I'mAMac]

The Intel SSDs don't degrade over time as other SSDs do.
I've got a 160GB Postville in my Mac Pro for a year now and it's as fast as on the first day (just benchmarked the drive a few weeks ago).

Well thats interesting (and good😀) to hear. You just made me a bit more optimistic 😉

 

[MikhailT]

So what will the difference between the enterprise and the consumer SSD's be then?

The enterprise grade MLC SSDs will be rated at 100K PE (Program/Erase) lifespan per cell instead of 10K for the customer MLC SSDs. They will also reserve (Overprovisioning) more of the NANDs for spare area for wear leveling/dead cells/controller related work, suppose a 256GB, it'll be ~190GB GB that can be used instead of customer SSDs at ~220GB. The enterprise grade SSDs will also be paired with a much higher quality controller that's designed for enterprise work with much lower write amplification factor. Look at Sandforce's controllers for an example.

The main difference between the consumer and enterprise is the type of flash memory. Consumers use Multi level chips while the Enterprise uses single layer chips. With multi-level you get more space, but with single you get more speed and long life span.

This is all from what I've read if there is more or less info on them I'm sure someone will throw it out there.

That's the difference between SLC/MLC NANDs, not the difference between enterprise/consumer SSDs. Both enterprise/consumers can use either type of NANDs. Read what I said above on the differences.

There are now enterprise grade MLC, and that's what Intel is using for the X25-E G3 SSDs. Sandforce enterprise SSDs will be using MLC as well. Majority of enterprise SSDs will be going with MLC from now on with better controllers.

 

[Jaro65]

The TRIM support is coming, Apple wouldn't add the TRIM status to the System Profiler if they don't intend to support TRIM.

Intel SSDs has an excellent internal garbage collection in them, they'll continue to work well over time and "heal" itself. Not to mention, the bigger the capacity of the SSD, the less likely the performance degradation will occur. It's very hard to push a 300-600GB SSD into the degradation state than a 80GB SSD.

You're right, but it is not only Intel that does GC. Most new SSD's have it. As such, there is really no need to worry about TRIM.

 

[gianly1985]

Intel SSDs never really """""needed""""" TRIM....that's one of the reasons G1s and G2s were the best choice back when no OS (and no SSD firmware) supported TRIM......
The speed loss for write amplification is minimal in G2s and even in G1s, probably the same for G3s.
Not having TRIM support is a non-issue if you buy the right SSDs.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

kekeke

that means us 80 gig early adopter noobs who need an RMA on our drives should be able to upgrade to the 160 gig gen 3 😀

 

[Sankersizzle]

so, do you think these drives will be way faster?

i ordered a 120GB OCZ Vertex 2. I don't really need all that space, but the speed makes me happy. should i cancel?

 

[gianly1985]

so, do you think these drives will be way faster?

i ordered a 120GB OCZ Vertex 2. I don't really need all that space, but the speed makes me happy. should i cancel?

We're talking X months from now, plus time for wide availability, plus time to be sure they *actually works* without dying for random reasons (that's still an "if" for new SSDs), plus time for 1-2 firmware updates just to be sure....

So, just enjoy your fast sandforce-based Vertex 2.

Plus, what's *really* faster than "stuff open in less than one bounce" (which you'll get with your Vertex 2)? Intel G3s have to bend space-time to do better, real-world-performance-wise. Benchmarks are another story. But a fast sandforce SSD nowadays is all the speed you may want for now. No reason to cancel your order with X months ahead before you can safely put your hands on a G3, who knows at what price and when.

 

[Gabriel GR]

We're talking X months from now, plus time for wide availability, plus time to be sure they *actually works* without dying for random reasons (that's still an "if" for new SSDs), plus time for 1-2 firmware updates just to be sure....

So, just enjoy your fast sandforce-based Vertex 2.

Plus, what's *really* faster than "stuff open in less than one bounce" (which you'll get with your Vertex 2)? Intel G3s have to bend space-time to do better, real-world-performance-wise. Benchmarks are another story. But a fast sandforce SSD nowadays is all the speed you may want for now. No reason to cancel your order with X months ahead before you can safely put your hands on a G3, who knows at what price and when.

That's half the truth. Run a database on your laptop or work with shapefiles or anything that needs a fast scratch disk, and every improvement in SSD iops is there in front of your eyes.

 

[Sankersizzle]

We're talking X months from now, plus time for wide availability, plus time to be sure they *actually works* without dying for random reasons (that's still an "if" for new SSDs), plus time for 1-2 firmware updates just to be sure....

So, just enjoy your fast sandforce-based Vertex 2.

Plus, what's *really* faster than "stuff open in less than one bounce" (which you'll get with your Vertex 2)? Intel G3s have to bend space-time to do better, real-world-performance-wise. Benchmarks are another story. But a fast sandforce SSD nowadays is all the speed you may want for now. No reason to cancel your order with X months ahead before you can safely put your hands on a G3, who knows at what price and when.

Thanks! This is kind of what I was thinking of doing. I've never been a huge fan of waiting for technology -1. because I'm an impatient person 2. because I'd always be waiting for something.

That's half the truth. Run a database on your laptop or work with shapefiles or anything that needs a fast scratch disk, and every improvement in SSD iops is there in front of your eyes.

This is relevant to my interests because I DO work with shapefiles. I am an ArcGIS fiend at school. Perhaps I'll get the Vertex 2 now and get a G3 (which is the name of a sweet rifle, btw) to slap in the optibay for christmas or something.

I was going to ask for new rims, but maybe I'll just spray them with rust check 😛.

 

[gianly1985]

That's half the truth. Run a database on your laptop or work with shapefiles or anything that needs a fast scratch disk, and every improvement in SSD iops is there in front of your eyes.

I didn't mean to make a "No one will ever need more than 640kb" kinda statement and more IOPS are always welcome, but I think what I said (= current consumer high end sandforce-based SSDs are fast enough for you not wanting to desire more, for 2010) stands true for 97,5% users. Of course there are exceptions, as you correctly stressed. Even though even for those exceptions waiting for the g3 is still a bit pointless, since buying a sandforce SSD now will repay itself in boosted productivity for the next X months before G3s come out. (and are safely buyable)

 

[Hellhammer]

I didn't mean to make a "No one will ever need more than 640kb" kinda statement, but I think what I said (= current consumer high end sandforce-based SSDs are fast enough for you not wanting to desire more, for 2010) stands true for 97,5% users. Of course there are exceptions, as you correctly stressed. Even though even for those exceptions waiting for the g3 is still a bit pointless, since buying a sandforce SSD now will repay itself in boosted productivity for the next X months before G3s come out. (and are safely buyable)

Speed is not the reason why people are waiting, it's the price per GB. SATA 3Gb/s interface is currently the biggest bottleneck in terms of speed. If I was on market for SSD, I would definitely wait for the G3s to hit the market and see some review and benchmarks and then see what to buy. Sure a current SSD would be just fine but on the other hand, I don't need it now so I would wait for new gen to arrive to get bigger one

 

[gianly1985]

Speed is not the reason why people are waiting, it's the price per GB.

Of course. Same happened last year in the transition from 50nm to 34nm, same capacities for half the price.

BUT....

...how many months before widespread availability? If you were in the market for a G2 in september 2009, you know what I mean, at least in Europe.

...how many months before "safety" against firwmare fiascos, bugs, etc? I would never buy an SSD that has just come out.


So, I still think it's early to wait if you're in the market for an SSD now. I think it's a decent time to buy an SSD right now, if you need/want it now.If you are still stuck with an HDD. If you already are OK in your disk compartment, like with a G2, of course you can easily wait for G3s and for the sandforce and micron answers to them.

I don't need it now so I would wait for new gen to arrive to get bigger one

I see, of course if you don't need it now the best thing is to wait, at least for IDF.