I would actually phrase it the other way around: Christian holidays always make their way into pagan rituals.
But that's just me.
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Somerfield gets meaning of easter *slightly* wrong
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I would actually phrase it the other way around: Christian holidays always make their way into pagan rituals.
But that's just me.
You gotta love how any mention of religious holidays on this forum is seen as an invitation to make smug comments about religion.
Cowards if you ask me. Make cheap potshots from the comfort of their own couches to make fun of others and make themselves feel better.
Cowards if you ask me. Make cheap potshots from the comfort of their own couches to make fun of others and make themselves feel better.
I would actually phrase it the other way around: Christian holidays always make their way into pagan rituals.
But that's just me.
Christmas was moved in the calendar, and I'm sure some minor ones were moved as well. Easter hasn't been, and most likely never will (unless they discover that Passover changed at some point since Jesus' time, but I don't think that's the case). You don't mess with a religion's most important day.
As an aside, this is the reason that the Russian Orthodox Church celebrates Christmas in January. Russia didn't switch to the Gregorian calendar until the Bolshevik Revolution (in part because they were suspicious of the west in general and Catholic's motives in changing the calendar - England was also a late adopter). Because the switch only happened less than 90 years ago, and because it was sponsored by godless Communists, the Russian Orthodox Church continued to celebrate Christmas on the same day, even though the Gregorian calendar now called that day January 7th.
I'm not sure if there are differences in the date of Easter (I see the Russian Orthodox date was also April 8th this year) but I imagine that this would be unusual because the date is determined by finding the start of Passover based on the Jewish lunar calendar and then picking the next Friday for Good Friday on the Gregorian Calendar. I suppose at some time the Julian and Gregorian calendars will drift apart to where they will disagree as to when the first Friday falls after the start of the Passover.
6. January is still a national holiday here called Dreikönig ("Three Kings") but the correct name is still Epiphany
that said chocolate or more specially cacao is considered suitable for the period of lent by papal decree from the 16 or 17th century
that said chocolate or more specially cacao is considered suitable for the period of lent by papal decree from the 16 or 17th century
Which is more evil, religion or the commercialism that has eaten the holiday?
Gotta have one evil force in the world, I spose.
Gotta have one evil force in the world, I spose.
You gotta love how any mention of religious holidays on this forum is seen as an invitation to make smug comments about religion.
Cowards if you ask me. Make cheap potshots from the comfort of their own couches to make fun of others and make themselves feel better.
What can we do that's not cowardice? Not like we can vote on it. We can have a war with it, but religious nuts are always so willing to die for a book. (though Breakfast of Champions may be worth the sacrifice
) It's a pretty played out idea anyway...Any ideas?
When I was very young I thought it amazing that he did all that in only four months
BTW, the egg/bunny thing comes originally from Persia/Iran, which celebrates its New Year at the spring equinox. Parents would hide eggs in the bushes as part of the celebrations and kids would go looking for them, scaring the rabbits that normally lived in the bushes and causing them to run into the open. So the kids were told that the rabbits were the ones leaving the eggs.
What can we do that's not cowardice? Not like we can vote on it. We can have a war with it, but religious nuts are always so willing to die for a book. (though Breakfast of Champions may be worth the sacrifice
Any ideas?
I don't even know if I should dignify this with a response. Are you on a personal war against religion?
I wasn't saying that you're not allowed to argue your opinion. The problem here was that there was no intelligent discussion. It was just potshots. If you want to intelligently discuss religion, start a thread in the political forum. Otherwise, keep it to yourself. Christians on this forum don't go around telling people that atheism is the root of all evil (or if they do, they're promptly banned), yet people on MacRumors are making cheapshots at religion and insulting millions of people without even a good understanding of what they're making fun of, and call it the root of all evil.
Somehow it's tolerated. I'd like to see what you guys did if someone made disparaging comments about atheism in random threads.
Macaddicttt, posters may be saying it in a jokey way, but however you look at it Easter is a combination of all sorts of cultural and religious celebrations. So The True Meaning of Easter doesn't involve Christian faith,, just like The True Meaning of Christmas. The only truth is that it means different things to different people.
I'm not sure whether I spy any direct attacks on Christians prior to your first post, just a bit of banter. I know that other threads have attracted posts as you describe, but this one seems harmless enough to me.
I'm not sure whether I spy any direct attacks on Christians prior to your first post, just a bit of banter. I know that other threads have attracted posts as you describe, but this one seems harmless enough to me.
I know, and I can take a joke. I was referring to the "scholarship" in this thread that says that Easter has nothing to do with Jesus (i.e. post #9) and this particular post:
Sorry if I overreacted. I just see so many anti-religion posts on MacRumors, and for some reason it's totally accepted.
If you go into the history section of a bookstore, you won't find much on Jesus and Easter. If you go into the Children's Fiction section of a bookstore, you'll likely find tonnes of books about Easter.
I find that kind of fitting.
Sorry if I overreacted. I just see so many anti-religion posts on MacRumors, and for some reason it's totally accepted.
The days that Christmas and Easter fall on coincide with other ancient rituals ect., that is correct. The true meaning of Easter is the resurrection of christ and the true meaning of Christmas is the birth of christ. Its not really about the Easter Bunny and Santa, just FYI.
OK, under those names you are right, but they are still holidays purloined by the early Church from other religions/cultures. So we can celebrate how we want whatever we choose to call them, and preferably without organisations berating us for forgetting a "true meaning" that really only applies to those with Christian faith.
Point taken. I for one will attempt to be more respectful of others belief systems in future, although I know it will be difficult at times
I think those of us with religious beliefs learn to grow a thick skin about it. That doesn't excuse it, but I'm confident enough in what I believe in (and why I believe in it) that I accept that people can question it and, yes, make fun of it.
What does bother me are those that insist that religion and scientific fact are somehow 100% diametrically opposed, that religious folks are all closed-minded zealots, and those that insist that one side or another is completely wrong without having done any research to back it up (yes, including aforementioned religious zealots
). Those that think that somehow it was proven long ago that Jesus never existed and the Bible is a work of fiction, and, say, Intelligent Design is such a ludicrous theory that it's not even worth scientific merit, but if YOU want to go ahead and wallow in your ignorance and believe it, then go right ahead... Uh, hello, WHO is ignorant (and closed-minded, to boot)?(Edit: As a fellow Mac user, I think you know exactly what I'm talking about
)But anyway. The crass commercialization of Easter. Yeah, sucks, doesn't it.
I don't think your position on Easter is really defensible. You almost sound like you are saying that there is a universal spring religious holiday that was co-opted by Christianity to become Easter. Easter comes from very specific events in the Jewish and Christian traditions. If the Christian holiday has adopted some of the ritual from other traditions, that doesn't mean that the whole notion was "purloined" from someone else.
It would be much more fair to say that Christianity celebrated Easter from the death of the founder which happened during Passover, just before the Jewish Sabbath began, which had been celebrated since Moses led the Hebrew people out of Egypt. Then other cultures brought some of their traditions to Easter celebrations as they adopted Christianity.
The same general principle applies to Christmas, although this one is less clear because there is no direct evidence for when Jesus was born but there is circumstantial evidence that he was most likely born in the springtime. Because the date for his birth is unknown, it is more clear that the early church adopted the date of December 25th from another tradition. Still the Christian meaning behind Christmas is separate from other religious traditions and was well established before the date of 12/25 was adopted.
So you think that Christmas falling at the winter solstice and Easter at the Spring equinox are just co-incidence then? I'm not saying that there was a universal spring religious holiday at all. I'm saying there were a number of very close religious and cultural holidays, most likely based on the time of the equinox that had been identified two millenia before by the Babylonians and Egyptians, pulled together onto one date when the Roman Empire decided to convert to Christianity. Easter was most likely selected by the Christians to be at this time because of Passover (Pascha in Greek, hence Easter being known as Pascua in Spanish, Pasqua in Italian and Paqués in French) and because the pagan fertitliy goddess Ostara (note the word similarity there) was particularly associated with the Vernal Equinox, where the rebirth (note the idea similarity) of the Earth was celebrated.
eastern falls on spring equinox ? since when ?
the earliest date possible date for easter is the 22. march and the latest on the 25. april
solstices always have been the more important dates compared to equinox
I already said the date for Christmas was likely chosen to coincide with another holiday because the date of Jesus' birth is not known. Easter is different.
As I explained before, Easter is celebrated at Passover because that is when Jesus died. It's obviously connected to Jewish holidays because all his followers were Jewish and they were celebrating Passover with Jesus before he was killed. It wasn't changed later to coincide with Passover. The four Gospels document that Jesus was executed by the Romans on the Friday afternoon before the Passover Sabbath began at sundown on Friday. Easter is celebrated on Sunday, rather than the Jewish sabbath (Friday night to Saturday) because that is the day he appeared to his followers after his death. The calculation of the date of Easter was changed a bit with the Gregorian calendar, but it's still based on the same principle of celebrating the first Sunday after Passover begins.
On this point I stand corrected, but I don't concede that just because people choose to not follow the Christian model of celebration they should have this True Meaning of Easter mantra constantly dragged up. If those who follow the faith want to celebrate it that way, go ahead. Personally I'd rather take a long weekend and eat some Lindt chocolate bunnies.