Sonnet 1,2GHz with or without fan?

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by Cox Orange, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. Cox Orange, Dec 29, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011

    Cox Orange macrumors 68000

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    Jan 1, 2010
    #1
    Hello,

    I got a 1,2GHz Sonnet Encore ST Single CPU, which came without cooler/fan. The former owner had not put thermal compound on it and it overheated (at least you could see a loose molten piece of metal covering over the chip) and I got a cheap PM G4 for parts.

    I installed the CPU to test it and it works fine so far, but I wondered, if the stock G4 CPU Cooler would cool it sufficiently.

    On the net I read that Sonnet first issued a version without fan and later added a fan to the newer charges. One User said he has running one only with a stock cooler, without fan, but he thinks it is working because it is the bigger piece, that came with Digital Audio G4s. Mine is an AGP, with the L-form cooler.

    Now I am wondering, if it is really possible to use the CPU just with the cooler (since Sonnet did sell them with fans later, anyway).
    If so, what would be a good, silent fan, I could mount to the stock G4-cooler (I already have an idea, how I could attach it to the cooler).
    (Another idea was to DIY a copper cooler as a replacement)

    I read about case fan replacements here, but I did not find anything useful for a CPU http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1232695

    Any ideas?
     
  2. zen.state, Dec 29, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011

    zen.state macrumors 68020

    zen.state

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    #2
    It would be a 7455 CPU and they are easily the hottest running. You need the fan. My 2nd Sawtooth has a Sonnet G4 1.0GHz and even with the fan the heatsink can get quite warm.

    Just remember that they didn't put it there for looks :)

    About a replacement.. you would be better just getting a cheap single fan controller for that fan and turning it down. I bought a dual fan controller for the 2x 50mm on my 7448 upgrade. I keep it around half speed. Makes it a lot quieter and still provides adequate cooling. My reason for doing this wasn't really noise at all though but to lower the vibration on the heatsink.

    Zalman make a decent single fan controller thats only 5-6 bucks at any typical PC shop. You will need one with molex on one end and the typical 2-3 pin standard fan connector on the other end. That means the fan would then be powered directly by the PSU rather than through the daughter card like it is now.
     
  3. reddrag0n macrumors 6502

    reddrag0n

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Location:
    Canada
    #3
    I had the same sort of thing with my old Sawtooth. A Sonnet 1.4 GHz with a stock cooler, but yes, you do need a fan. This is what my old CPU and fan looked like...
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    More info on this mod here...
     
  4. zen.state, Dec 29, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011

    zen.state macrumors 68020

    zen.state

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    #4
    IMO the Sonnet heatsink is better than the stock model till the Digital Audio era at least. Remember that the stock sink is designed for CPU well under 1GHz.

    Edit: Forgot to add that not only are those stock Sawtooth and Gigabit Ethernet heatsinks made for only 400-500MHz CPU they were also designed for the 7400/7410 version of the G4 chip. The 7455 in these 800MHz-1.4GHz Sonnet or any brands in that range are a very different chip and create a lot more heat.

    Those purple Sonnet sinks have a lot more beef over the CPU
     
  5. Cox Orange, Dec 30, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011

    Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #5
    Great input from both of you, thanks!

    :)
    Exactly speaking, it is a 7455B and a sticker on the purple board says Rev. D (do not know, if they bettered the design in Rev. D. temperature-wise).
    Btw I realized, that the internal big Case-Fan under the PSU, does a fair amount of cooling (Alu-cooler did feel relatively cool), but I do not want to risk anything... (when the case is open the Alu-Cooler gets very hot indeed, in a few minutes. Obviously)

    .
    Sorry for my ignorance, but by turning it down, you mean giving it 5V instead of 12V?
    The G4 AGP doesn't have temp.-sensors, am I right?

    When your talking about your Dual 7448. Do you have a recommendation for the stock Sonnet Fans on the Dual 1,8GHz 7447 (getting them quieter)?

    What is the reason to not connect a 2-Pin connector to the daughtercard itself? (Besides, that I can't find any aftermarket Fan with less than 3Pins...)

    Looks like Zalman isn't producing 40mm Fans anymore...
    http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?cat=coolfan&xf=355_40&sort=p

    Nice Site and nice Mods.
    Like you show it in the picture was what I had in mind. Today I realized, that the stock cooler is actually not 40x40mm, but 30x35mm, and it says Rev. A underneath - could it be, that Apple (Foxconn) did change the size for the L-Form-Cooler in AGPs some time?

    I think I get around your cable-mod with this http://geizhals.at/deutschland/105824 right?

    For a short while I thought about taking a VGA-Cooler or a Zalman 7000cu (which would blow from top, but maybe has not enough metal on it), but that would be way to much headache in finding a way to mount it.
     
  6. zen.state macrumors 68020

    zen.state

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    #6
    Just think of it like this.. if the stock heatsink was good enough then they wouldn't have engineered a new heatsink for the 7455 upgrades. It would have saved them time and money and us money also if the stock sink was sufficient. reddragon may be fine with the stock sink but I can promise it will shorten the life of his CPU.

    I am not sure why but a lot of people on here assume my 7448 upgrade is a dual but it's not. It's a single 1.8GHz 7448. The heatsink has 2x 50mm fans on these for a single or a dual.

    Fan controllers do lower the voltage and turn the speed down. I wasn't talking about a Zalman fan.. I meant a fan controller meaning a small black device with double side tape to stick in your case somewhere and connect you fan to it. It has a dial on it to control the fan speed. It looks like this:
    [​IMG]
    Link to buy

    The two pin connector in the daughter card is just how Sonnet engineered them. You would only need to stop using that to use a controller as it plugs into a 4 pin molex like a PATA HDD for power.
     
  7. Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

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    Jan 1, 2010
    #7
    Oh, of course a "fan CONTROLLER". *hitting-my-own-forehead*

    Interesting that there are things I actually somewhen heard of, but totally forgot (plus I failed to notice the word controller) :)

    Thanks very much will get this or a similar controller plus some cheap fan, which I can mount on the stock heatsink (at least till I find an original Sonnet-heatsink or something similar with more "flesh". Perhaps a heatsink from a Dual G4 GigabitE would do, due to its lenght. ...to be on the save side.
     
  8. skinniezinho macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Location:
    Portugal
    #8
    Well I was wondering the same since I bought a 1.2GHz Sonnet that came with an heatsink that seems like a quicksilver powermac (See pics).
    Anyone knows if this heatsink fits the sawtooth without problems (I am away from the machine )?
    I have the fan with 2 pin connector, since I already have a fan controler can I mod it to 3pin?
    The fan from the quicksilver are silent or it is better to buy a new one?


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. 666sheep macrumors 68040

    666sheep

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Location:
    Poland
    #9
    ^^^
    See this pic (stock sink isn't shaped like that without a cause ;)):

    ...QS sink won't fit in sawtooth unless you'll cut it a little:

    [​IMG]

    QS CPU and sink in Sawtooth.
     
  10. zen.state macrumors 68020

    zen.state

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    #10
    Never seen a QS sink cut for a Sawtooth. Very interesting. I would have a lot more faith in that than the original from the Sawtooth.

    Cox:

    A bigger dual sink from a gigabit tower would certainly be better than the single sink is. There is a lot more aluminum there to spread the heat onto.

    The lower part of the sink is where it's directly over the CPU and just compare these 2 pics and how much more meat the Sonnet has.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  11. skinniezinho macrumors 6502a

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    Portugal
    #11

    Thanks a lot.
    Only a doubt, than shouldn't be in the vertical "lines" of the aluminium heatsink?
    I'll try to cut the heatsink.If something goes wrong,I'll put the the sawtooth heatsink with the fan on top.
     
  12. 666sheep macrumors 68040

    666sheep

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    Location:
    Poland
    #12
    ^^^ Maybe so, but that's how QS sink is made ;)
    After surgery it has bigger "heat dissipation" surface than stock Sawtooth one and you can always attach fan to it, as I did.
     
  13. zen.state macrumors 68020

    zen.state

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    #13
    Agreed. Those more dense parts on each end of the QS will really help take heat off the middle. Adding a 50-60mm fan helps a lot also. IMO a 40mm fan is too small but not because it can't blow enough air. It's more that it has to spin a lot faster to blow sufficient air. Louder and more vibration on the sink and CPU.

    Also, those end fins going in the other direction will be perfectly vertical when the case is closed.
     
  14. yamu macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    #14
    I use a 1.0 Ghz without additional cooling and the stock heatsink, no problem so far over a long time. No problem with running it under full load over hours.

    I think, it depends if the Tower is loaded with harddrives or not, and if the Case fan blows ( Sawtooth/GE) or sucks air (Quicksilver, maybe DA too).

    More Cooling is always better, but it should be ok with the stock heatsink and good thermal paste (if the old black pad on the heatsink is removed)
     
  15. Cox Orange, Jan 3, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012

    Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

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    Jan 1, 2010
    #15
    Zen: oh, I didn't realize, that the Sonnet sink would be that much bigger there.

    Skinnie: could you explain the meaning of this sentence "Only a doubt, than shouldn't be in the vertical "lines" of the aluminium heatsink?" to me, as a non native speaker, please?

    666sheep: nice Job!

    Wouldn't the fan cool more of the metal, if it was mounted on the backside, instead on the smaller end-part?
     
  16. zen.state macrumors 68020

    zen.state

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    #16
    You're totally overlooking the fact that the stock sink would cause the CPU to always run at higher temps at idle use or max CPU use. In the long run this will shorten the life of the chip because it's forced to work at higher temps all the time.

    Too many people assume that if there is no current issue then there is no issue.

    Cox:

    I have seen some the put a fan on the bottom fat part and blowing up onto it. Maybe try that.
     
  17. yamu macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    #17
    I said, more cooling is better. Unfortunately the G4 Chips of that time had no temperature sensor. My personal experience: I had a Sonnet Upgrade with 1 Ghz and preinstalled heatsink with fan. In my GE G4 overheated after heavy use und the Mac froze hard and the CPU died. Everything was clean inside, good airflow. Maybe the card was defective from the beginning but i installed the next upgrade with the original heatsink an have no problems.
    Maybe the fan from the side "cuts" the airflow from the case-fan, which cools pretty good in my case. In case of the Quicksilver, the Case fan sucks the air, so the heatsink fan makes more sense in my opinion.
     
  18. skinniezinho macrumors 6502a

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    Portugal
    #18
    Well,just installed my Sonnet 1.2GHz.Since I had no time to cut the QS Sink shipped with it I installed the original G4 400MHz without fan (The one that came with the QS sink made a lot of noise).
    Browsing web,etc the sink is only warm, I can say that my pcs with good coolers were hotter than this one.
    For safety I put the 120mm case fan on max speed, and asap I will install a fan on the sink, and of course, cut the QS Sink and install it with a fan too =)
     
  19. Cox Orange, Jan 17, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2012

    Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #19
    I just wanted to add a Sonnet-comment I found. I guess one is on the saver side with a fan, though.

    See: http://www.sonnettech.com/support/kb/kb.php?cat=315&expand=_a3_a1_a2_b77_b175&action=b175#b175

    (FAQ, no 77)
    "When installed correctly, the Encore/ST G4 card reusing the Apple heat sink is just as reliable as the more recent Encore/ST G4 card with a pre-attached Sonnet heat sink. Sonnet chose to pre-attach a heat sink to Encore/ST G4 upgrades (except for those with a part number that starts with SG4-C) because we determined that some users did not properly attach the Apple heat sink and clips, and we wanted to make the installation process easier." (May-12-09)

    PS: (from an email from Sonnet) "[The Encore/ST] Has a rating of 13.3 CFM (Cubic Feet per Minute) [that is 22,6qm/h]. It is a 12V fan, 5500 RPM. The same fan is used on the Duet."
     
  20. Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

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    Jan 1, 2010
    #20
    Sorry for another adding of information.

    While Single and Dual Sonnet CPUs use the same fans, and as stated above, if the stock G4 heatsink is properly attached some Single can "live" without fan, it seems Dual ones are picky.

    I searched for the quietest and highest cfm fans I could find and asked Sonnet, whether I could use them to make the Dual 1,8GHz 7447 quieter. Here is the answer. (I picked 2x Papst 512F/2 (5000rpm), 30dB(A), 20qm/h (11,77cfm)

    Straight from the engineers:

    > The fan we used was a Sunon KDE1205PFB1
    >
    > Here are the specs:
    > +12V
    > 0.11 Amps DC current
    > 1.3 Watts power consumption
    > 5500 RPM
    > 13.3 CFM (cubic feet per minute)
    > 0.15 static pressure (inches of H20) - that is, inches of water
    > 31.0 dba noise
    >
    > I wouldn't recommend going to lower CFM fans, as we used the quietest one we could, and a lower CFM fan will probably not cool the unit well enough.

    My note: Noise can subjectively experienced differently from the dB(A) measures, because of the sound characteristics, plus air pressure can influence the cooling efficiency. So maybe, if the Papst fans had a higher pressure, but a lower air flow, it could be sufficient, but hm...
     

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