Sonnet External GPU Cradle

[dusk007]

@Hellhammer you might want to read what has already been written before your post. It is still the first page and what is the point of a thread discussion if people just keep ignoring what people worte before them.
As for the only new point. BIOS vs EFI won't be the problem. You can buy enough mac edition retail cards. And OSX supports those on a Mac Pro and will also on a MBP. As long as you output directly to an external display it should at least work. How fast is another question. And Thundebolt is like PCIe x2.5 not x4 as has been mentioned a few times already.

 

[Hellhammer]

As for the only new point. BIOS vs EFI won't be the problem. You can buy enough mac edition retail cards. And OSX supports those on a Mac Pro and will also on a MBP.

And they are ridiculously overpriced. $449 for ATI 5870 isn't exactly a great deal anymore. Sure, it works but you pay a hefty premium for previous gen GPUs.

How fast is another question. And Thundebolt is like PCIe x2.5 not x4 as has been mentioned a few times already.

I know but I was merely pointing out that only some games will be capped by the bandwidth limit.

 

[Erasmus]

So, TB is apparently 2 channels, each is bi-directional 10Gbit/s. So, in theory, it should be able to transmit and receive 20Gbit/s at once.

Therefore, assuming one device can use the bandwidth from both channels, an external GPU should be able to connect at PCIe 2.0 x4. Which is what the benchmarks in the first half of this link that HellHammer posted previously.

The Sonnet Echo Express claims to provide PCIe 2.0 x4 to a card, providing 2 GByte/s bandwidth. Says so on their site.

 

[w00t951]

Well, to clarify, I think the majority of people will be trying to use their eGPU for Windows based gaming, so OS X driver limitations are a non issue. Does anyone know if it is possible to use FW800 to somehow pipe in video to the internal panel.

 

[Erasmus]

Well, to clarify, I think the majority of people will be trying to use their eGPU for Windows based gaming, so OS X driver limitations are a non issue. Does anyone know if it is possible to use FW800 to somehow pipe in video to the internal panel.

I'm sure it's possible, there's just no point. If you're going to pipe them back, the easiest option is to send them back along the TB connection.

The problem is getting the video right back through the integrated GPU on the CPU, and then out through the screen. It's certainly possible to do, and I can't imagine it would be that hard, I'm just assuming that Intel or Apple would have to update drivers to let it happen.

In BootCamp, it would be different, as the video would have to go through the discrete internal GPU, as the integrated chip is disabled. Which means AMD may have to be involved. So the question is who can, and/or will, make it happen?

 

[Mr MM]

I'm sure it's possible, there's just no point. If you're going to pipe them back, the easiest option is to send them back along the TB connection.

The problem is getting the video right back through the integrated GPU on the CPU, and then out through the screen. It's certainly possible to do, and I can't imagine it would be that hard, I'm just assuming that Intel or Apple would have to update drivers to let it happen.

In BootCamp, it would be different, as the video would have to go through the discrete internal GPU, as the integrated chip is disabled. Which means AMD may have to be involved. So the question is who can, and/or will, make it happen?

Nvidia works better in that regard, basing this on the current egpu solutions that use pcie and expresscards, you just need to modify a little the inf file from the MOBILITY drivers and you are there.

However the most difficult part is to make your pc aware of your new output, usually they need a batch file for that to work on a allocated space,so that when you start your pc the gpu starts.

For most of the time that I saw a egpu solution working it needed an external monitor for it to work, since few laptop can have outside signal in, an example is alienware with the m17x hdmi in. however, even without that propriety some got it to work, here is a good thread about this, its quite long, and thanks to nando4 we have detailed summaries and all that

http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/418851-egpu-experiences.html

 

[Hellhammer]

So, TB is apparently 2 channels, each is bi-directional 10Gbit/s. So, in theory, it should be able to transmit and receive 20Gbit/s at once.

The DisplayPort channel cannot be used to transmit this kind of data, thus it's only 10Gb/s.

 

[snaky69]

This is looking good so far. Now what about routing video back into the MBP's internal display? Anyone think it's feasible with the same Thunderbolt port? Or would you have to plug in a FW800 cable to wire the video back?

You will not be able to wire the video back, that's what most posters have been trying to tell you. No port on the MBP is wired to the internal screen, there is no way for it to be done.

 

[darels]

Integrated powerful gpu into new cinema display generation would be incredible. Perfect match for macbook pro 13 users, and hopefully for new gen macbook air and macbook too.

 

[Mr MM]

You will not be able to wire the video back, that's what most posters have been trying to tell you. No port on the MBP is wired to the internal screen, there is no way for it to be done.

not necessarily

2530p using a gtx 460m to drive the internal LCD

http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/418851-egpu-experiences.html

this is getting obnoxious

and here are some macbook pro implementations
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/841486/
http://support.villagetronic.com//faq.php?cid=1&answer=3#f3

 

[Erasmus]

The DisplayPort channel cannot be used to transmit this kind of data, thus it's only 10Gb/s.

Do you have a source for this?

It seems likely to me that each channel in Thunderbolt can act as a 10GBit/s PCIe lane, OR, a DisplayPort channel.

Which is why Apple originally said Thunderbolt could support two external monitors. And why Sonnet claims 4 PCIe 2.0 channels.

I am not convinced that a monitor plugged straight into an external graphics card, connected to a computer via TB would not operate at PCIe 2.0 x4.

 

[Hellhammer]

Do you have a source for this?

It seems likely to me that each channel in Thunderbolt can act as a 10GBit/s PCIe lane, OR, a DisplayPort channel.

Which is why Apple originally said Thunderbolt could support two external monitors. And why Sonnet claims 4 PCIe 2.0 channels.

I am not convinced that a monitor plugged straight into an external graphics card, connected to a computer via TB would not operate at PCIe 2.0 x4.

Thunderbolt uses DisplayPort 1.1a which supports daisy-chaining, thus the multiple display support. I don't have any concrete evidence but why would Intel advertise it as 10Gb/s on their site if it could really provide 20Gb/s for PCIe only?

 

[dagamer34]

Any external GPU is going to be faster than Intel HD 3000 graphics, so I really doubt actual bandwidth matters that much. And since there are limitations in size, power, and cooling of whatever GPU would actually fit in that enclosure, I'd estimate, you'd be limited to single slot cards around the Radeon HD 6600 class.

But like I said before any other external GPU would be faster than the Intel HD 3000.

 

[CWeeks]

Benchmarks suggesting performance will be fine...

Hi all,

Being interested in whether gaming on mac minis or MacBooks with poor internal GPUs is feasible led me to this thread. I found a very useful article on the performance of a Radeon 5870 tested in PCIe 2.0 1x, 4x, 8x and 16x across a range of games. The test was performed by the tester taping over pins and therefore restricting the spec and performance. The results surprised me (in a very happy way), with all the games that I play having excellent performance.

The following link is to the Team Fortress benchmarks, but the review table of contents will take you to the crysis, dawn of war 2, etc... benchmarks.

http://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/19.html

I found this review most enlightening because the 5870 is completely compatible with OS X right now and you can buy the card from the apple store. I recognize the technically adept can buy a PC version of the card and flash it with appropriate EFI firmware, but for the sake of many non-tech readers, buying a card from the apple store will be a better idea.

If you are only going to use the card with windows, then any card will do, but for my use case (2011 Mac Mini), a 5870 sounds perfect for a fast, silent 3D gaming workstation (much faster than an iMac) that runs both OSes. All this without the pain of hackintoshes or the $ on a mac pro.

Thanks Sonnet - this is really exciting!

 

[djxavier]

The following link is to the Team Fortress benchmarks, but the review table of contents will take you to the crysis, dawn of war 2, etc... benchmarks.

Awesome link thanks!