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Sonnet Introduces Thunderbolt 4 Dock With Up to 90W Charging for Macs
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Looks like ATTO sells a Thunderbolt → Dual 40G adaptor for a mere $1,995!
I completely agree. A 2.5 GbE controller chip is less than $3 (example: Intel i225-V is $2.4 according to https://www.servethehome.com/current-intel-i225-2-5gbe-nics-are-missing-big-feature/, while the more commonly used and lower quality Realtek 8125B should be even cheaper).
Considering how cheap it would be for them to add it I just think it is stupid of Sonnet not to. It would also be a great differentiator versus the competition. Regarding the market, 2.5 GbE is now commonly available on most mid to high-end PC motherboards (for example the majority of AMD X570 or Intel Z490 boards). Switches are coming down below $150, but you can also use without switch to hook up directly to NASes with faster ports.
With the market being targeted for this dock (e.g. creative professionals), more than doubling the network speed for less than $3 is a no-brainer in my opinion. Even if customers wouldn't use it at once it would be much more future-proof than the now over 20-year old 1 GbE standard.
Perhaps the biggest market driver pushing for 2.5 GbE is that very many WiFi routers and access points are now marketed with more than 1 GbE speeds, and many naturally have 2.5 GbE ports to feed them. These ports can also be used to hook up computers with such ports.
This one is $249. Adding only $50 to get 10 GbE with the OWC Pro dock is quite attractive.
Personally I prefer the QNAP T310G1S adapter, which is $199 for 10 GbE over SFP+ and therefore more power efficient and without fan (10 GbE over normal Cat6 cable uses a lot of power, so most adapters, including the OWC Pro dock therefore has a fan).
I’m always a bit dismayed at the price of hubs & docks that essentially let you plug things into ports that used to come standard on laptops. It’s not like Apple laptops are cheaper now even after factoring inflation. This is a complaint against Apple, not accessory makers. This one looks very nice.
Granted, you're getting more ports and a hub is very nice. But still...
Granted, you're getting more ports and a hub is very nice. But still...
Okay,
can you point a a link or tell how these works?
Does the hub show to the master device as a usb device?
And if you connect a tb device to this hub, then that tb stream is encapsuled in usb (alt mode) stream?
How about an tb3 to usb4 adapter for us with old tb3 ports? Then a tb4 hub after that. And...
Wiki says:
"The USB4 specification states that a design goal is to "Retain compatibility with existing ecosystem of USB and Thunderbolt products." But compatibility with Thunderbolt 3 is only optional for USB4 hosts and USB4 peripheral devices."
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4#Thunderbolt_3_compatibility )
No mention about relationship between usb4 and TB4.
and
"The USB4 specification was released on 29 August 2019 by USB Implementers Forum,[69] based on the Thunderbolt 3 protocol specification."
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)#USB4 )
Again, no mention about relationship between usb4 and TB4.
About TB4:
Thunderbolt (interface) - Wikipedia
"Thunderbolt 4 was announced at CES 2020[73] and the final specification was released in July 2020."
It would be hard for usb4 to include tb4 in the usb4 specs, because tb4 specs weren't released when usb4 specs were released.
Although, this bit is interesting:
"Those HUBs are backwards compatible with Thunderbolt 3 devices and can be backwards compatible with Thunderbolt 3 hosts."
SO, is it possible to use these tb4/usb4 (which one is it? both?) hubs with tb3 mac?
"Can" might mean that it's possible, but not implemented in any current product?
Hmm, this is getting interesting:
Buy Razer Thunderbolt™ 4 Dock Chroma - Black | Gaming Pc Accessories | Razer.com
Purchase Razer Thunderbolt™ 4 Dock Chroma - Black (gaming pc accessories), or browse through our extensive selection of gaming peripherals, and more at razer.com
www.razer.com
"Compatibility:
- Mac Systems w/Thunderbolt™3 Port running MacOS 11.1 Big Sur or Later"
That TRT™4CD was announced one week ago, so I didn't find any user experience with it.
OWC's hub didn't mention anything about using it with old tb3 intel mac, when it was released, AFAIK, but now it does. Strangely id doesn't work as a tb hub with windows...
Caldigit probably works with windows, because they don't say that it doesn't work...?
(I'd boot mini2018 with external windows drive through this hub...)
Seems to be that usb4 is not needed from the master device (computer)?
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Then we have the issue with optical TB3 cables and what they can/cannot do in relation to TB4/USB4?!
Oh what joy!
forums.macrumors.com
Oh what joy!
Optical Thunderbolt 3 Cables Begin Rolling Out in Lengths Up to 50 Meters
PSA: CalDigit have released their active 2m Thunderbolt 4 cable ($80). https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-usb-4-cable These ones are among the first ones released, and are almost identical to their TB3 ones, offering full 40Gb, 100W Power Delivery. Question most will wonder is: What are...
forums.macrumors.com
All M1 Macs support 2 displays natively, but since the Air & Pro have a built-in display which counts as 1 of those, they can only have 1 external display without software workarounds.Not sure why this keeps getting passed around but M1 Mini can support 2 monitors.
Mac mini - Technical Specifications
See all the technical specifications for Mac mini with the M4 or M4 Pro chip.www.apple.com
Video Support
Simultaneously supports up to two displays:
- One display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz connected via Thunderbolt and one display with up to 4K resolution at 60Hz connected via HDMI 2.0
Market research shows I only buy devices that make my desk look like spaghetti-octopuses. /s
Thunderbolt? USB-A? SD Card slot? Audio jack? If only there were a laptop with such versatility built in! Oh, wait, there is - my Early 2015 MacBook Pro!
(plus...HDMI!)
(plus...HDMI!)
TPS65988: Titan ridge output ports - Interface forum - Interface - TI E2E support forums
Part Number: TPS65988 Hi team, On the Intel titan ridge reference design, it shows that TR have one PCIe Gen 3, one DP and one USB3.1 Gen 2 output as below shows
e2e.ti.com
Adaptertek Technology Co., Ltd.
Adaptertek and Intel Collaborate to Release the World's First Thunderbolt 3 Titan Ridge ModuleWith the support of Intel (Shenzhen), Dong Guan Chen Shuan Electronic Co., Ltd (Adaptertek) pioneered the
www.adaptertek.com
Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 controllers (as shown in the 1st link above) had 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports, an x4 PCIe 3.0 port, 1 Displayport, and 1 USB 3.1 Gen 2 port on the controller. It seemed like all Titan Ridge docks ended up targeting compatibility with non-Thunderbolt USB-C computers and so didn't utilize the x4 PCIe 3.0 port. Instead all the non-display ports like USB-C, USB-A, Ethernet, SD card, and audio are connected through a series of internal USB hubs to the Titan Ridge's single internal USB 3.1 Gen 2 port and so are bottlenecked to a combined 10Gb/s (as shown in the Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 dock reference design in the 2nd link). This provides more bandwidth for the non-display ports than a basic Type-C USB 3.1 Gen 2 hub, but less than older Alpine Ridge Thunderbolt 3 docks where the non-display ports were implemented using dedicated controllers off the x4 PCIe 3.0 port.
Are Goshen Ridge Thunderbolt 4 docks still implementing compatibility with non-Thunderbolt USB-C computers by hanging all the non-display ports off Goshen Ridge's USB 3.1 Gen 2 port? The Ethernet port in the Sonnet Echo 11 Thunderbolt 4 dock is from a Realtek RTL8153B which is an USB-Ethernet controller rather than a PCIe-Ethernet controller suggests this to be the case. Does anyone know if Goshen Ridge at least has more than one internal USB 3.1 Gen 2 port now or are all the USB-A, ethernet, SD card, and audio ports still bottlenecked to the 10Gb/s of a single internal USB 3.1 Gen 2 port?
The freely downloadable USB4 specification describes everything in exquisite detail.
If you connect two USB4 capable devices, they will establish a USB4 link at the maximum speed supported by both devices and proceed to tunnel the USB3 protocol as well as the DisplayPort and PCI Express protocols if supported by both the host device and any downstream devices.
If you connect two Thunderbolt capable USB Type-C devices, one or both of which lack USB4 support, they will establish a Thunderbolt 3 Alternate Mode link at the maximum speed supported by both devices and proceed to tunnel the DisplayPort and PCI Express protocols. USB functionality is facilitated through USB3 host controllers integrated into the Thunderbolt controllers with the resulting PCIe packets then being tunneled over the Thunderbolt link.
If you connect a DisplayPort Alternate Mode capable device to USB4 or Thunderbolt host, they will establish a DisplayPort Alternate Mode link. This can be either a 4-lane DisplayPort main link or a 2-lane DisplayPort main link plus a single-lane SuperSpeed USB link. No tunneling is involved—native signaling is employed.
If you connect a USB3 device to a USB4 or Thunderbolt host, they will establish a SuperSpeed USB3 link at the maximum speed supported by both devices. No tunneling is involved—native signaling is employed.
USB4 hubs are required to support Thunderbolt 3 on all downstream facing ports. USB4 and Thunderbolt 4 docks, such as this Sonnet device, are required to support Thunderbolt 3 on the upstream facing port as well as all downstream facing ports. No adapters are required between Thunderbolt 3 and USB4 devices that support interoperability. AFAIK, no adapters are possible that would allow Thunderbolt 3 hosts to work with USB4 devices that do not support Thunderbolt 3 Alt Mode.
Aside from the upstream facing port and three downstream facing Thunderbolt/USB4 ports, Goshen Ridge only provides a single USB 3.2 Gen 2x1 port and a single PCIe Gen3 x1 port. I expect to see most designs eschew PCIe based controllers entirely for the sake of compatibility, but also reduced complexity and cost.TPS65988: Titan ridge output ports - Interface forum - Interface - TI E2E support forums
Part Number: TPS65988 Hi team, On the Intel titan ridge reference design, it shows that TR have one PCIe Gen 3, one DP and one USB3.1 Gen 2 output as below showsAdaptertek Technology Co., Ltd.
Adaptertek and Intel Collaborate to Release the World's First Thunderbolt 3 Titan Ridge ModuleWith the support of Intel (Shenzhen), Dong Guan Chen Shuan Electronic Co., Ltd (Adaptertek) pioneered thewww.adaptertek.com
Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 controllers (as shown in the 1st link above) had 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports, an x4 PCIe 3.0 port, 1 Displayport, and 1 USB 3.1 Gen 2 port on the controller. It seemed like all Titan Ridge docks ended up targeting compatibility with non-Thunderbolt USB-C computers and so didn't utilize the x4 PCIe 3.0 port. Instead all the non-display ports like USB-C, USB-A, Ethernet, SD card, and audio are connected through a series of internal USB hubs to the Titan Ridge's single internal USB 3.1 Gen 2 port and so are bottlenecked to a combined 10Gb/s (as shown in the Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 dock reference design in the 2nd link). This provides more bandwidth for the non-display ports than a basic Type-C USB 3.1 Gen 2 hub, but less than older Alpine Ridge Thunderbolt 3 docks where the non-display ports were implemented using dedicated controllers off the x4 PCIe 3.0 port.
Are Goshen Ridge Thunderbolt 4 docks still implementing compatibility with non-Thunderbolt USB-C computers by hanging all the non-display ports off Goshen Ridge's USB 3.1 Gen 2 port? The Ethernet port in the Sonnet Echo 11 Thunderbolt 4 dock is from a Realtek RTL8153B which is an USB-Ethernet controller rather than a PCIe-Ethernet controller suggests this to be the case. Does anyone know if Goshen Ridge at least has more than one internal USB 3.1 Gen 2 port now or are all the USB-A, ethernet, SD card, and audio ports still bottlenecked to the 10Gb/s of a single internal USB 3.1 Gen 2 port?
This Sonnet dock bears an uncanny resemblance to the OWC dock as far as the layout anyway.
eshop.macsales.com
Which one will be better? 🤔
OWC 11-Port Thunderbolt Dock for Mac & Thunderbolt PCs
Expand your workstation with the OWC 11-Port Thunderbolt 4 Dock. Connect all your peripherals, displays, & devices with ease. Simplify your setup now!
eshop.macsales.com
Which one will be better? 🤔
Probably performs exactly the same. They gotta be using the same board from an OEM. This happen sometimes, even among bigger peripheral makers like them. The CalDigit TB3 bus powered hub that even Apple Stores have it, is literally the same one that OWC makes, just with the logo printed differently.This Sonnet dock bears an uncanny resemblance to the OWC dock as far as the layout anyway.
OWC 11-Port Thunderbolt Dock for Mac & Thunderbolt PCs
Expand your workstation with the OWC 11-Port Thunderbolt 4 Dock. Connect all your peripherals, displays, & devices with ease. Simplify your setup now!
View attachment 1732020
View attachment 1732021
Which one will be better? 🤔
I have an honest question and hope not to get a snarky reply: why would I pay $250 for this one instead of $60 for the Aukey TB dock that’s available on Amazon? Aukey is a familiar brand that makes lots of high quality chargers, cables, etc. I don’t see why I’d pay $250 for this.
Totally agree (with both of you). What device is that supposed to be, the one next to his right hand?
I believe you meant ‘octopi’, lol.
This Sonnet dock bears an uncanny resemblance to the OWC dock as far as the layout anyway.
OWC 11-Port Thunderbolt Dock for Mac & Thunderbolt PCs
Expand your workstation with the OWC 11-Port Thunderbolt 4 Dock. Connect all your peripherals, displays, & devices with ease. Simplify your setup now!
View attachment 1732020
View attachment 1732021
Which one will be better? 🤔
SD5700T Thunderbolt™ 4 Dual 4K Docking Station with 90W PD - Windows/macOS/Chrome | Universal Laptop & USB Docking Stations | Kensington
SD5700T is compatible with Thunderbolt™ 4-enabled Windows 10 laptops and backward compatible with Thunderbolt™ 3 MacBooks running macOS 11 or later.
www.kensington.com
Buy Razer Thunderbolt™ 4 Dock Chroma - Black | Gaming Pc Accessories | Razer.com
Purchase Razer Thunderbolt™ 4 Dock Chroma - Black (gaming pc accessories), or browse through our extensive selection of gaming peripherals, and more at razer.com
www.razer.com
Kensington and Razer also have almost identical Thunderbolt 4 docks. I'm guessing all 1st generation Thunderbolt 4 docks are using the same Intel reference design with the only difference seemingly being whether they include the extra USB 2.0 charging port. Hopefully some companies are going to put the effort into making custom 2nd generation Thunderbolt 4 docks with more variety for release later this year.
It's interesting how strikingly similar the port configuration is on this one vs the OWC TB4 Dock. I wonder if the internals are from a common third-party supplier and OWC and Sonnettech are just wrapping their own chassis around them?
this dock appears to support two 5K displays. How does this work over one cable? According to apple's own specs, the macbook's that do support this, require two TB3 (one in each side to power each). I assure this was to do with bandwidth limitations combination cables. Is this solved now?
Thunderbolt 4 and Thunderbolt 3 using the newer Titan Ridge controllers support 2 x DisplayPort 1.4 streams with Display Stream Compression in a single cable allowing 2 x 5K displays assuming the GPU is capable of it.