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Yeah I bought the Arc Ultra last autumn and it has been great. The best soundbar I’ve ever used in my life. Literally have no other speakers and it sounds great with my LG C3 77” that I picked up for $1499 at the same time. Bass is plenty for our home theater, as my wife doesn’t want anything too crazy anyway. No vibration on our wall mount. Might add a couple rears in the future.

Idk what everyone on MacRumors has been whining about /s.

Ok, but for real I get what they did, but I’ve only really used the app when setting it up and then I updated it and turned on some new movie voice boosting feature. Why do so many people use the built in app for stuff like music? I just use the Apple TV or AirPlay and ignore the app entirely.

My only real complaint is that the volume takes way too many clicks on the Apple TV remote to move it up. I swear my old Vizio soundbar had like 10 clicks which was too few and this one has about 100.
 
I currently have five speakers and the Sub Mini, and I'm extremely happy with the setup. It's been working very reliably, and I’m confident it will only continue to improve. Compared to bluetooth speakers it is a night/day experience (Connecting to Bluetooth speakers always felt like a hassle—pairing issues, limited range, and worst of all, music getting interrupted every time a call comes in. Whenever I'm at a friend’s place and they’re using Bluetooth speakers, it honestly feels like stepping back into the Dark Ages. :D )

I did try the Sonos Ace, but ended up returning them - even though they were 50% off. There were two main reasons: first, I realized over-ear headphones might not be for me—I found them a bit uncomfortable, especially due to sweating. e.g. on train rides or during the summer time. Second, I was disappointed that they couldn't function as a standalone "speaker" within the Sonos ecosystem. For example, I couldn’t stream Sonos Radio HD directly to them, even though I’m a subscriber. Plus, I don't own a soundbar.

That said, I’m excited to see what Sonos does next. Our home is already fully equipped, and I don't see any need for upgrades at the moment—the system is fantastic just as it is.
 
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The only reason I went with a pair of Sonos Ace was to switch audio from my Arc to the headphones. This way I can do chores around the house and still hear what's playing on my TV. I'm not terribly impressed by them. It often loses connection, even when I'm playing my PS5 and not moving around. I did use them last week on a plane ride to Japan when my AirPods died and didn't have any issues with that, so maybe it's the audio switching function.

Do newer tv's have Bluetooth so I can connect AirPods? I know I can use AirPods while using my Apple TV, but when using normal cable is what I needed the Aces for.
 
Pandora, Snap and Quibi... as long as you have a certain "look" America is def the land of failing up into more and more wealth... reason #14 China's laughing all the way to being the undisputed global power.
 
I have several Sonos 100 speakers, a "Roam", and a Port. I haven't had any trouble, but I don't have Ace or any of their soundbars.

The app is a host for things you stream. For example, I can stream Iheartradio content to all of my speakers. Or I can stream Pandora. I can also play from my music library on my iphone. For podcasts and zoom calls, I can route them to any or all Sonos speakers through Airplay, and then switch to the Sonos app to adjust levels on any individual Sonos speaker.

I'm also happy. I use it every day and I've never had any trouble with it.

But what would be the point of that? All of the speakers show up on Airplay anyway. The Sonos app just makes some things easier. And once something not dependent on content on my iPhone is playing on the app, it actually transfers itself to the Sonos system, so even if I power down my iPhone, the content will still continue to play on the Sonos system.

In a family situation, individual people can play different content on their selected speakers. For example, somebody in the kitchen could be playing a podcast from Apple Podcasts, while somebody in a bedroom could be playing something from Pandora to the speaker in their room. And somebody else can be listening to streaming radio on Iheart...or they can be on a zoom call and just send the audio to their Sonos speaker.

I like my Sonos system. It's a lot better than having a single Bluetooth audio device that you have to carry all around the house. And the speakers in the bathrooms are clear enough to be able to actually hear them while I'm shaving or showering.
Can't you just stream from the music app or podcast or whatever with airplay to sonos ? And adjust the volume with the iPhone buttons while it's connected with airplay ?
 
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I've never owned any Sonos products but I read about this debacle last year. As I understand it, Sonos' new app made major UX changes and bricked many older products. They apologized Their PR unit responded with formulaic damage-control and the obligatory vague corporate promise to do better in the future.

Since I trust that most of you aren't bots, I want to hear from the Sonos users - did Sonos right their wrongs? Did any of you abandon them for good? How's the ANC on Ace vs. Sony XM5's, APM, or Bose QC? Any major gripes with the Ace overall? I've seen big discounts recently - low-mid $200's range new.
I had wanted to try Sonos for quite a while, but decided to wait until the app situation settled down. Last week I installed a pair of Era 100s and a Sub Mini in my home office and was very satisfied with the app, the installation, and the performance of the system. So satisfied, in fact, that a couple of days ago I picked up the Arc Ultra, Sub 4 and a pair of Era 300s for my TV room. I set up the soundbar and sub first with no issues. I had a question about installing the 300s as surrounds and called the Sonos support line. I was quite impressed that I connected with a very helpful human in about a minute. He provided the help I needed and emailed a support ticket reference number to me. Everything was resolved within five minutes. It has only been a few days, but I'm very satisfied so far.

As to the Ace headphones, I haven't read much positive about them. I'm hanging on to my Airpods Max for now.
 
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I'm 100% satisfied with my recent Sonos products (including a Arc Ultra) and 100% satisfied with the app.
Everything works as expected and I have never experienced any hardware or software issue.
The "Sonos hate trend" shows its age...
 
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Too many snowflakes in this world

I have both an Arc soundbar and a subwoofer and not a single problem with either of them or the app itself.

Tut
 
...comprehensive and competitive search
...lead Sonos into its next chapter of delighting customers, spearheading innovation, and driving growth,...
...has earned the confidence of our employees, customers, partners and shareholders by restoring urgency and a deep commitment to delivering ever-improving experiences...
...compelling vision for Sonos' future, with strong plans to harness technology to benefit our customers...
... We're energized by what Sonos' next chapter...


Never heard so many BS words at a time. Makes me want to vomit when I hear BS marketing words that mean nothing.
 
I love how executives are ‘compensated’.

ie their time is so precious that they have to be compensated for it.
 
Did any of you abandon them for good?
Yes. I didn’t have a huge Sonos set-up, just four Play:1 speakers, which officially don’t support AirPlay. (With an app called SonoAir running on my server they did, just with a 20-30 second lag.) When the app got updated, everything went down the drain. The music would stop, or skip to the next song, or the album would suddenly be over two and a half songs in. The app’s search took them ages to fix – you could look up either the act name OR the album title (finding Pet Shop Boys’ Yes or most acts’ Greatest Hits was quite an exercise) but that eventually got fixed. What didn’t get fixed was sorting. I even emailed the customer service to complain about this and I was told there was simply no way to sort albums by either title or release date.

I now have four HomePod Minis and I couldn’t tell you what the Sonos app has been up to in the last few months. I’m not a huge fan of Apple Music’s interface, but OMG! It is possible to sort albums and playlists however I want? And find them? What is this sorcery?

(Oh by the way, anyone wants to buy four fully functional Sonos Play:1 speakers?)
 
...comprehensive and competitive search
...lead Sonos into its next chapter of delighting customers, spearheading innovation, and driving growth,...
...has earned the confidence of our employees, customers, partners and shareholders by restoring urgency and a deep commitment to delivering ever-improving experiences...
...compelling vision for Sonos' future, with strong plans to harness technology to benefit our customers...
... We're energized by what Sonos' next chapter...


Never heard so many BS words at a time. Makes me want to vomit when I hear BS marketing words that mean nothing.

Welcome to the corporate world ;) (Yes, I hate it too)
 
My only real complaint is that the volume takes way too many clicks on the Apple TV remote to move it up. I swear my old Vizio soundbar had like 10 clicks which was too few and this one has about 100.
Can't you lower your Volume Limit to say 50 or 60% so each click will make bigger adjustments?
 
Wait I totally missed this detail...

The new CEO was 'Chief Product Officer at Quibi'???

Sonos is doomed.
Why would they go with this guy??? Crazy.

More proof once you are in the CEO-sphere of the corporate world you can't mess up bad enough to not find a new company to disrupt for a few years before jumping to the next one.

Quibi??!?
 
Sonos definitely needs better PR.

I've had Sonos for 10 years now - bought my first units in 2015, when I bought the house I'm currently living in. The Play 5 gen 2s I bought still work fine, with all features and current software.

Let's start with "bricked". In 2019 Sonos launched a program where owners of old systems could upgrade their hardware for 30% off. Since Sonos doesn't have stores everywhere, their idea was that instead of you handing in the device the device you enrolled for such an upgrade it was deactivated and should be delivered to recycling. This seemingly benign scheme backfired spectacularly. I see the actual scheme as a big nothing burger, but it is regularly brought up without the context so it's definitely a spectacular PR disaster.

The next big controversy was when they left some old devices behind. Sonos launched their new S2 OS in August 2020 or so, and products launched between 2005 and 2010 didn't get the major update. S1 still got updates for existing services etc, but not new features. Still getting updates after 15 years is very good in my book. What they should have done better was to let S1 and S2 devices coexist in the same app, today they are AFAIK completely separate apps and systems.

An interesting read about the app rewrite can be found here, but there are several. For my use, the problems I experienced was slowdowns - especially when launching, a less intuitive UI, and missing features/weird choices. E.g. tracks from my local library was ordered alphabetically and not by track number, with no reorder possible. That's not a good way to listen to some albums, operas, or audio books...

Since then, the app has been fixed. Still on the slow side when starting, but the rest is OK for my use cases - the things I miss have never been there, e.g. to like a song on Apple Music or Spotify from the app, or use smart playlists. Might be different for others. I mostly start playing from Spotify via Spotify connect, or from Apple Music - or via voice. There has never been problems with these.

Can't tell you anything about the ACE headphones - I replaced my old Airpod Max so with Sony WH-1000XM6. My usecase is using them during transport and at work, not at home where I have all my speakers - so I went with the best reviewed ones and focused on ANC in addition to sound quality. Other than that, I have a lot of devices. 17 in total, I think, including two surround systems and four Ikea Sonos frames. They're great as discrete back speakers.
Thanks you very much for this informative, objective post. Unfortunately I don't see that many posts like yours, and it is indeed filled with good to know, with links to support your views, info.

Thank you.
 
The tech debts and customer relationship are still problematic... Maybe now we'll get EQ presets, and widgets for basic UX of Sonos speakers?
 
The tech debts and customer relationship are still problematic... Maybe now we'll get EQ presets, and widgets for basic UX of Sonos speakers?

Dont worry the Quibi guy knows tons about debt and problematic customer relationships. I'm sure it'll be fine. /s
 
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Idk but like what’s the point of the App? Don’t you use like Apple Music or something? Like why the app is so important?
Sonos speakers are basically standalone music computers. The Sonos app provides a user interface and remote control for the speaker, since the speaker has no display, and only a few buttons (there's no way to scroll through a list of music and select an album to play on the speaker itself). You can use the Sonos app to select a song/album/playlist from, say, Apple Music, hit Play, and the app will tell the speaker "play playlist FOO from music service BAR", and the speaker will do that all on its own (streaming the music from Apple Music or wherever).

You can use the app to raise/lower the volume or pause, or skip forward/backward in songs, and the app will just forward those commands to the speaker which actually takes action on them. This means you could queue up an hours-long playlist, and if, for instance, you wander away from WiFi connection (say, out to the street to grab something from your car, or get the mail, or whatever), the music doesn't break just because your phone temporarily went out of range - because the speaker itself is doing the streaming. It also means you could reboot your phone, while playing, and it doesn't affect the music. You could change devices without affecting the music - say, queue something up using your MacBook, and then close the laptop and pick up your phone and the music is still playing, and you can use the Sonos app on your phone to skip to the next track - because, again, the phone (or Mac) isn't sending the music, it's just a remote control of sorts.

Oh, and by the way, the Sonos speakers (and app) support something like a hundred different streaming services - Apple Music but also tons of others.

Yes, you can airplay to Sonos speakers, but then your phone is tied up with streaming - you're actively pulling a music stream from the internet to your phone that your phone is then retransmitting to the speaker. This means if you turn off your phone, or go out of range, or whatever, the music is cut off. And your phone is using up battery serving as a pipeline between the internet and your speaker.

The other problem with AirPlay is in a house with more than one person - with AirPlay, the person who is playing is in charge - say they get called out of the room for 20 minutes, and another person in the house wants to play something else, or change the volume, or skip a track or something - AirPlay doesn't make that easy to do. But with the Sonos app, every person has an equally powerful remote control in their hand, and the second person can simply use the app on their phone to issue new commands to the speaker.

The app makes it possible to set something going in the background and then move on to other tasks. That said, my Sonos speakers are a home theater setup (Arc, Sub, old Play:1 surrounds), and I mostly use them either with my TV (driven by an Apple TV and a PS5), or I use Sonos Voice Control to directly tell the system what to play ("Hey Sonos, play the album Kind of Blue by Miles Davis"). But I definitely get why other people want to use the app for everything (I have relatives who live in a house with kids, and it's helpful for them all to be able to control the music as needed).

Why do so many people use the built in app for stuff like music? I just use the Apple TV or AirPlay and ignore the app entirely.
If you're using AirPlay, you're tying up the device that is serving as a pipeline between the streaming service and the speaker - whether that's your phone or computer or whatever. Some people would rather avoid that - tell the speaker what to play, using the app, and then be able to do something else with their phone while the speaker handles the work of playing. Same with the Apple TV - you can play music through Sonos speakers using the Apple TV (I do this sometimes), but then it's tying up the Apple TV so it can't do anything else (and keeping multiple devices on, including the actual TV, putting wear and tear on the display panel).
 
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Too many snowflakes in this world
The "Sonos hate trend" shows its age...
The new app that Sonos foisted on people when it was full of bugs and not feature complete, as a replacement for the old app, which was old, but worked well, seemingly just so they could ship their new headphones on time (this was a problem for Sonos, not for their existing customers who had functioning systems), was a complete cluster-****.

It broke existing systems for a lot of customers who had paid a lot of money to have "It Just Works" house-wide audio systems, while not giving them any benefit in return for that pain ("sure, we broke your speakers but now you can buy our new headphones" is not a benefit to existing customers). There were people who had their home audio systems needlessly broken by Sonos and didn't get working sound back for months.

Sonos should have responded to the bad rollout by quickly giving a sincere apology, immediately rolling back out the old software, and then either delaying the release of their headphones for several months until they got the new version of the app finished and debugged, or ship the headphones with a separate copy of the buggy app under another name ("Sonos Ace controller" or whatever), and have the bugs only affect the headphone users until they could properly finish writing the app, and then transition everyone else over to the new app later on, once it worked. What they did instead, apparently because someone was determined to get their "shipped on time" bonus for those headphones, was to gaslight their customers, leaving the ones with broken systems out to dry, for months and months. It was an awful mess. It's going to be a case study in business text books, "how to destroy your company's reputation and customer loyalty in 30 days or less", for years to come, and it tanked their stock price for a while - sure hope that "shipped on time" bonus was worth it.

This change didn't affect me much (my Sonos home theater setup continued to work, I don't use the app very much beyond installing updates), but I can sympathize a lot with the people who got harmed by this. Do you not have any empathy? Or is it just "I am not personally affected so everyone else should shut up"?
 
I've never owned any Sonos products but I read about this debacle last year. As I understand it, Sonos' new app made major UX changes and bricked many older products. They apologized Their PR unit responded with formulaic damage-control and the obligatory vague corporate promise to do better in the future.
Your understanding may be conflating a few events (others have touched on this). Sonos had technical debt in their system - they were supporting speakers that were 10+ years old, alongside recent ones, all controlled by the same app. Imagine how modern software runs (or doesn't) on a 10+ year old computer. The older systems were holding them back from adding new features that they wanted (like putting Dolby Atmos in sound bars), because the "firmware" that runs on the speakers would exceed the capacities the 10+ year old speakers were built with (not enough ram/storage, not fast enough processors for new software).

So, their first pass at addressing this, years ago, was to offer a trade-in program to try to get those older speakers out of the ecosystem - substantial deals (e.g. 30% discount on new speakers) in turn for getting rid of the old ones. Only, since they don't have retail stores, their "solution" was to brick the old speaker and have you take it to a recycling center. As you can imagine, a whole lot of people thought the idea of intentionally turning a speaker that was playing music well five minutes ago into e-waste, for no good practical reason (only an economic one) did not sit well with very many people.

So, they relented, and agreed to fork their software - the old/existing software (the "Sonos Controller" app you could download and the firmware it would in turn download to the speakers) became "Sonos S1" (and would continue to work with all the old speakers, but not the new ones they were going to release), and they released a new "Sonos S2" app, which dropped support for the oldest speakers, but in turn added support to the more modern speakers (i.e. the ones made more recently, that had better storage/ram/cpu), as well as new/upcoming speakers they were releasing, along with new features (like Dolby Atmos). This was a bit inelegant, but meant all the older speakers could still keep playing music until the hardware physically gives out, using the S1 app (which would only get security patches going forward), while people with less-old speakers and new speakers could switch to the S2 app and get new features.

But they were still left with considerable technical debt in the app and the firmware, and things needed a rewrite. And, Sonos was pushing into new product areas - they wanted to make headphones, and the S2 app wouldn't work for that. They spent a long time behind the scenes working on a new revision of the software, that would support all the speakers that the S2 system supported, but also let them do things like headphones. Good plan.

Absolutely terrible execution. They seemingly had some sort of deadline to hit for releasing the headphones (I still stand by my guess that some exec wanted to get his "shipped on time" bonus), and they foisted the rewritten version of the app on all their existing customers when it was only halfway written (missing tons of features that people depended on) and only halfway debugged (I'm sure it ran on their testing setup in the lab, but it was totally broken on a whole lot of different home networks and combinations of speakers out in the real world).

Oh, also, the app was a disaster from a UI/UX standpoint - like some drunk executives took turns throwing darts at a dartboard to decide what UI elements to use where - it had drawers that pull out of pulldowns that pull out of drawers accessed by hamburger menus, along with various bits of clickable text that gave no indication that those elements were, you know, buttons. Like someone had taken a bag of UI ideas and thrown them in a blender. It was needlessly hard to navigate, there was no grand vision to it, and intuition could not help you figure out how to navigate it. And common operations that used to be one or two clicks were now an obstacle course of multiple clicks and menus. And all this added complexity was there at the same time as it was missing a bunch of features people had come to depend on. There were also major performance issues, like hitting volume up/down in the app would take many seconds for speakers in the same room as you to respond, where before this was instantaneous. Everything in the app was slow. And it seemed like a large part of the reason for this was that they were running commands from your house out offsite to a Sonos-owned server, and doing something, and then sending the commands back to the speaker - this is not something that anybody had ever asked for ("but what if I want to adjust the volume of music playing at home while I'm at work?"), and has led to security concerns (why are they sending that data out) that I don't think have been resolved to this day.

It didn't really permanently brick anyone's speakers (to my knowledge), but for many their speakers were left somewhat unusable, or only partially functional - for months on end and I think there were a fair number of people where this meant their systems were as good as bricked until Sonos rectified things ("well, sure, your speakers use to play music just fine, but that was in May, and now it's June/JulyAugust/September - I'm sure we'll get your speakers to play again one of these days"). Imagine if Apple had released an iOS update that rendered, say, a quarter of all iPhones no longer able to make phone calls, and then just left things that way for months on end.

Any sane company would have apologized profusely, immediately reverted to the previous version of the software, and continued to work on the new version of the software behind the scenes until it was fully fleshed out (so all the previous features were properly supported) and fully debugged (so it worked 100% on all the actual installations that were out in the field, that had worked fine on the previous version), oh, and clean up the absolute mess that was the new UI.

That's not what Sonos did. Instead, they gaslighted their customers for months, insisting that only a tiny fraction of a percent of their customers were affected in some minor ways, with a very "who are you going to believe? me, or your own lying eyes?" sort of attitude. Corporate damage control of the PR-only variety. There was a considerable rebellion among users, their community forums got slammed, their subreddit got slammed (with, of course, a handful of apologists with unaffected systems saying "works for me, your problem must be a skill issue" - lots of fun flame wars there), there were lots of damning articles written, lots of home audio/theater installers stopped recommending/carrying/using Sonos gear for "whole home audio" and home theater systems (both because they were directly affected and because they were getting angry calls from people they had sold systems to), lots of bad press, and their stock price tanked (sure hope that "shipped on time" bonus was worth it), and they ended up having to lay off a whole bunch of employees and delay the release of other new products (oh, but the CEO who signed off on all this got his golden parachute on the way out - that's part of what this article is about).

After many months of this, they came out with a very corporate-y PR apology (that did not apologize for all the gaslighting they had done) and a promise to work to improve the situation. This led to a checklist of things they were going to add/improve/fix in the app/firmware, along with regular updates to the app, and a timetable. These updates are still ongoing at this point, though the pace has slowed considerably (there was an initial period of a few months where they cleaned up some of the most egregious problems, now they're chasing smaller problems). The app's UI has improved, but unfortunately using the awful drunken-dartboard UI the new app debuted with as a starting point (rather than scrapping it and making an actually good UI). The app/firmware is still not feature complete compared to where it was a couple years ago. (The thing that annoys me the most personally is, with the old app you could tell the system to play from an arbitrary streaming URL stored in a favorite - I've used this for various password-protected subscriber-only music streams - the new version of the app still cannot do this, even though I can do it with a 3rd-party Sonos controller app talking to my Sonos speakers - Sonos just hasn't bothered to reimplement that in their new app.)

Since I trust that most of you aren't bots, I want to hear from the Sonos users - did Sonos right their wrongs? Did any of you abandon them for good?
No, they have not completely righted their wrongs. It's a work in progress. I don't know if they'll ever actually complete the process, or just decide at some point that they are done (while desired features are still missing, like the "stream arbitrary URL" feature cited above).

I haven't abandoned them, because I'm one of the lucky ones whose system didn't break. My Sonos system (Arc soundbar, Sub, two older Play:1 surrounds) largely serves as a home theater system (driven by an LG TV connected to an Apple TV and PS5) - it still sounds terrific - and, secondarily, gets used for playing music. I control the music primarily using Sonos Voice Control (e.g. "Hey Sonos, play At Fillmore East by the Allman Brothers"), and sometimes by playing music from my Apple TV (Apple Music or several other streaming apps). I would use the Sonos app for controlling music more, if it wasn't so screwed up.

I'm still annoyed at how Sonos handled this, and at the current state of the app, and at the "Sonos apologists", who didn't have problems with their particular systems, so they insisted that anyone else having problems must be making it up or must be doing something wrong.

Previously, Sonos was one of the "good" companies, that made slick, high quality, upscale, innovative, tech gear married to tightly integrated software, that all "Just Works" together (sound familiar?). And then they completely trashed their reputation by screwing over their customers while focused on getting that quarterly bonus at any cost. It's going to take a long time to recover from that.
 
It's difficult for me to even consider looking at Sonos again after the way they've treated customers over the last 10 or so years. I had 2 Sonos speakers ZP and Sonos 5 that were excellent and I still have the Sonos 5!

I just have a rule about considering companies that have shown contempt for their customers - don't give them any more money.
 
Previously, Sonos was one of the "good" companies, that made slick, high quality, upscale, innovative, tech gear married to tightly integrated software, that all "Just Works" together (sound familiar?). And then they completely trashed their reputation by screwing over their customers while focused on getting that quarterly bonus at any cost. It's going to take a long time to recover from that.
Couldn't agree more. They were the darling of magazines like 'What Hifi?' here in the UK and I lusted for Sonos kit - it worked better than anything else, mesh networking and multi-room playback was tremendous with great sound quality. Great kit and interfaces that were feature rich and easy to use.

'Trashed' is definitely the word. They seemed to become a nasty company.
 
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