Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I am thinking of going to get the Ultra tomorrow. Just wondering if I should get the sub woofer with it. I noticed you didn't mention having a sub. How is the bass with your setup?

My opinion is that Arc bass is plenty deep. I've questioned each friend about their wants for the dedicated sub... but each chose to add it anyway. It certainly adds more bass than Arc alone but I thought Arc sounded just fine for bass.

You can always add to a Sonos setup. Buy the Arc and let your ears judge. Add the sub if want LOWER and/or LOUDER LOWS. If the room is sizable, that could be another reason... but if this is the case, I'd point you towards Receiver plus "dumb" speakers to take better advantage of the "sizable" space. Stereo separation is a thing and any soundbar limits separation of front left & right to the width of the bar. In big rooms, you likely will enjoy audio more if those are physically spread wider.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Act3
My opinion is that Arc bass is plenty deep. I've questioned each friend about their wants for the dedicated sub... but each chose to add it anyway. It certainly adds more bass than Arc alone but I thought Arc sounded just fine for bass.

You can always add to a Sonos setup. Buy the Arc and let your ears judge. Add the sub if want LOWER and/or LOUDER LOWS. If the room is sizable, that could be another reason... but if this is the case, I'd point you towards Receiver plus "dumb" speakers to take better advantage of the "sizable" space. Stereo separation is a thing and any soundbar limits separation of front left & right to the width of the bar. In big rooms, you likely will enjoy audio more if those are physically spread wider.
Started w/ an Arc in ‘21, added ERA 300’s & a sub mini last yr. on sale & was GTG. Moved the Arc & sub mini to a bedroom w/ ERA 100s & also good results. End of ‘24 added an ARC Ultra + new full size sub to go w/ the ERA 300’s & very plz’d but all my subjective opinion so ……..
 
Last edited:
Word of caution to those of you who may be enticed to buy a Sonos home theater... I bought the Sonos Arc Ultra theater kit. The audio quality was fantastic and it was very easy to install. BUT, it had a slight but noticeable audio delay when watching content off of the Apple TV with Atmos enabled... It only went away if the audio was down-mixed to stereo. Apparently of the soundbars brands, Sonos is more susceptible to the audio processing lag, and because it lacks an HDMI in, it cannot be overcome if present.

I went with a wired system instead (AVR+5.1.2), and while it's not as a pretty it sounds the mostly same without the audio lag.

edit:
From rtings
Arc Ultra
Audio Latency: ARC
PCM-2.0 ch
49 ms
PCM-5.1 ch
45 ms
Dolby MAT (PCM) Atmos
64 ms
Dolby Digital
98 ms
Dolby Digital Plus
107 ms
Dolby Digital Plus Atmos
107 ms

vs

Samsung bar
PCM-2.0 ch
34 ms
PCM-5.1 ch
40 ms
Dolby MAT (PCM) Atmos
58 ms
Dolby Digital
79 ms
Dolby Digital Plus
86 ms
Dolby Digital Plus Atmos
90 ms

The ~110 ms atmos latency was noticeable for my particular setup, while the 50 ms 2.0/5.1 delay was not.

With a real AVR, my media inputs go into the AVR and I cannot perceive any latency even with atmos enabled content.
Why do you say it lacks HDMI in? The specs say it has HDMI eARC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Salt City Ute
Why do you say it lacks HDMI in? The specs say it has HDMI eARC.
HDMI in meaning another device(s) can plug directly into it when the sound bar connects to the TV via ARC/eARC. Some soundbars have that, Sonos Arc Ultra did not.

I suspect he meant HDMI passthrough (that HDMI "in" eARC + an HDMI OUT), so that he could have put the TV as last link in the chain: AppleTV to Soundbar to TV instead of AppleTV to TV to Soundbar.

As you point out, it certainly has HDMI "IN".
Exactly

Sonos does have a good return policy so it's easy enough to try out some Dolby atmos 4k content from Apple TV to see if your setup works or not.
 
Last edited:
It's been a good while since I last looked at the viability of a Sonos 5.1 system to accompany a living room gaming console and projector setup (so wireless lag is a concern, and all of the hardware except for front speakers is at the back of the room).

If anyone here happens to have this combination, I'd love to hear what your setup and experience is. I don't want to run an HDMI cable from the back of the room to the front of the room, if that's required.
 
Been a big Sonos user for many years, through the ups and downs. In recent times had significant issues with performance and responsiveness. The Sonos Illuminati (seen a couple in this thread already) will berate anyone reporting such issues by saying they clearly must have network problems and insisting it’s obviously due to a bunch of nonsense like “IP conflicts” or other stupid excuses. Meanwhile every support forum is loaded with people having similar issues. You must be holding it wrong.

The new app rollout was a disaster. Between the feature regression and the disastrous performance it was basically useless. Thankfully there’s very little you actually need the Sonos app for.

That said - things have improved dramatically in the past month or two. The app is much better. A recent firmware update seems to have addressed basically all of my performance and latency issues - things load instantly and respond the way they did in the good old days 5 years ago. I just hope they don’t muff it up again.
 
Arc Ultra
Dolby Digital Plus Atmos
107 ms

The ~110 ms atmos latency was noticeable for my particular setup, while the 50 ms 2.0/5.1 delay was not.

With a real AVR, my media inputs go into the AVR and I cannot perceive any latency even with atmos enabled content.

First of all, I assume the TV was doing audio passthrough for the best quality and latency so that the TV itself didn't play a role in the chain. If the TV was reprocessing the audio signal the TV itself would have introduce some lag or might have reduce quality.

Assuming the TV was doing passthrough properly, 110ms Atmos latency were likely due to using Atmos DD. If you notice, even the Samsung soundbar listed has relatively high lag when processing it (~90ms).

If you can, use Atmos MAT, which implements Atmos through multichannel PCM. This will also provide the best audio quality (PCM is uncompressed whereas Dolby Digital is compressed). With Atmos MAT you should have ~60ms latency, which should be low enough to be unnoticeable.

PS: I don't use my Apple TV much so I'm not sure of its full capabilities, but I have a PS5 and it does output Dolby MAT. With my TV set to passthrough, the receiving soundbar has negligible latency during gaming.
 
I know many hate Sonos now, but I recently upgraded my living room with the Beam 2nd gen, sub mini, and two Sonos One 2nd gen. I think it's been great so far! I have a Sonos Ray in my bedroom as well. Time will of course tell if this becomes a regrettable purchase but I'm a happy customer with Sonos even after their app issues.

The Beam 2nd gen is IMHO very good value for the money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Apple.Fanatic
We have Sonos in the Studio these last two years, two Fives, a move and a Sub. It works from various source, so the tea, can feed their own Spotify playlists and I can use Apple Music via Airplay, the central MacApp runs without any problems at all (but is barely used except when I check an interesting song someone plays or set the EQ), the sound is the best I ever had from a wireless system so far for such a large space. We ran into trouble once due to too much WLAN traffic and that was quickly solved in a live session with support, which was really great.

I know people at the moment love to hate on Sonos, but after trying over a dozen other AirPlay-streaming speakers, these are by far my favorites.
 
I still have the sonos beam2.. and 2 ones.. it works ok but sometimes sonos loses connection and TV shows sonos is connected .. weird ...

same with PS5 your playing a game then TV goes black, sonos is not connected...

My next upgrade will be to Samsung HW-Q990D, tried sonos and never again.
 
It's been a good while since I last looked at the viability of a Sonos 5.1 system to accompany a living room gaming console and projector setup (so wireless lag is a concern, and all of the hardware except for front speakers is at the back of the room).

If anyone here happens to have this combination, I'd love to hear what your setup and experience is. I don't want to run an HDMI cable from the back of the room to the front of the room, if that's required.

For best sound:
  1. You’d have to run a long, shielded HDMI cable, or
  2. move the source portion of the “hardware” to the front of the room or maybe
  3. some kind of wireless or HDMI conversion tech over maybe Ethernet or similar. I’ve seen listings for a few such things (example) but never tried them.
Yes there is also an optical jack but that’s still a cable run from back to front of room plus a substantial trade-off in audio potential.

#2 is likely best possible option for your situation if you want a soundbar-based setup. And that would be ANY soundbar system, not just Sonos.

You may find best practical option for you is to set up a traditional receiver + dumb speakers so that you only need to run 3 relatively thin speaker cables to front left + center + right speakers. Receiver could then also live in the back of the room.

If this, buy a relatively smart receiver for most of the smart speaker benefits without the locked-down marriage of tech guts and sound-making portion of the speakers. Good “dumb” speakers like that should sound just as good 20-30 years from now. Replace the receiver about every 10-12 years to refresh any “smarts” evolution. If I was you, THIS is the way I’d do it in that room. Many net positives including even better sound than you can get from any soundbar, assuming you choose great speakers to enjoy for the next few decades.
 
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
  • Like
Reactions: Agile55
Word of caution to those of you who may be enticed to buy a Sonos home theater... I bought the Sonos Arc Ultra theater kit. The audio quality was fantastic and it was very easy to install. BUT, it had a slight but noticeable audio delay when watching content off of the Apple TV with Atmos enabled... It only went away if the audio was down-mixed to stereo. Apparently of the soundbars brands, Sonos is more susceptible to the audio processing lag, and because it lacks an HDMI in, it cannot be overcome if present.

I went with a wired system instead (AVR+5.1.2), and while it's not as a pretty it sounds the mostly same without the audio lag.

edit:
From rtings
Arc Ultra
Audio Latency: ARC
PCM-2.0 ch
49 ms
PCM-5.1 ch
45 ms
Dolby MAT (PCM) Atmos
64 ms
Dolby Digital
98 ms
Dolby Digital Plus
107 ms
Dolby Digital Plus Atmos
107 ms

vs

Samsung bar
PCM-2.0 ch
34 ms
PCM-5.1 ch
40 ms
Dolby MAT (PCM) Atmos
58 ms
Dolby Digital
79 ms
Dolby Digital Plus
86 ms
Dolby Digital Plus Atmos
90 ms

The ~110 ms atmos latency was noticeable for my particular setup, while the 50 ms 2.0/5.1 delay was not.

With a real AVR, my media inputs go into the AVR and I cannot perceive any latency even with atmos enabled content.
Have you checked the TV sound settings (eArc on/off, audio delay, etc.)? Some TVs, especially Samsung are set automatically to have delay it needs to adjusted.
 
I have 17 Sonos speakers so I have shelled out a lot for Sonos and generally loved them and although this new app is getting better-it is still TERRIBLE and miles behind the old app.

As someone who has Sonos in almost every room in house I would NOT recommend someone buy any Sonos as is until they let people go back to the old app which worked great and didn't give people like myself and others headaches using the new one with many missing features and extra clicks to do basic stuff
 
Have you checked the TV sound settings (eArc on/off, audio delay, etc.)? Some TVs, especially Samsung are set automatically to have delay it needs to adjusted.
I did. There was no true passthrough setting after digging through the LG documentation. I had a regular 5.1 soundbar setup from ~2019 before trying out the Sonos that had no real issues besides being a bit flat. Again, the Sonos sounded and looked great. It was the arc ultra, sonos sub 4, and two Sonos era 300s setup. If it was just for streaming lossless audio, I would've kept it. But I also felt dumb buying all that speaker power and having my wife point out a very noticeable audio delay while watching Wicked on Apple TV.

It's all moot now, my wired system is the bees knees and I don't regret buying it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agile55
Wired with "dumb speakers" will beat about any soundbar setup assuming we don't apply the classic "cheap dumb speakers vs. superior smart ones" type arguments. Most notably, wired fully supports stereo separation to fit a room. Soundbar stereo separation begins & ends at width of the bar. I'd always recommend the traditional setup (receiver plus wired speakers) over any soundbar-based, "smart" speakers and/or wireless setup.

It's very much like going separates for a Mac computer vs. all in one (like iMac). The latter can seem great going in but later- when the smarts age out or have issues- it's "throw baby out with the bathwater" (monitor, speakers, etc all get tossed with the "vintaged" smarts). In traditional, assuming you don't do something stupid with the "dumb" speakers, you probably update the "brains"- the Receiver- every dozen or so years to evolve with evolving A/V standards... much like replacing a headless Mac every 7 or so years while keeping "the rest" in play.

The speakers themselves are likely to be perfectly fine for 20 or 30 years with reasonable care. They don't decay, get "long in tooth", etc. They just play, sounding as good in year 20 or 30 as they sound in week 2 or 3. I purchased my choice of "ideal" for my room about 8 years ago and expect to still be enjoying them in 2045. I wouldn't expect THAT kind of longevity with ANY "smart" speaker options... because the "smarts" will be vintaged long before the speaker itself has any issue at all.

That said though, if I just absolutely wanted "smart" speakers and/or absolutely wanted a soundbar-based system, objective reviews all over the web generally put Sonos at or towards the top of all such rankings. Here's one that is fresh (1/17/25). Note the key line about sound quality (which, to me anyway, is the most important thing to consider)...

"I need to give Sonos [Arc Ultra] the win on sound quality overall, as the massive Arc Ultra soundbar and Era 300 speakers earned their space by immersing me in full and pitch-perfect renditions of everything from rockers Screaming Females’ power ballad “Swallow the World” to a waves-soaked scene from FX’s prestige series “Shogun” where our heroes barely made it through the storm."

CNN chose a Sony soundbar setup as "best" but they traded "overall sound quality" ranking for some price. Apple everything would lose many such contests too due to Apple premium pricing relative to other good, serviceable choices at lower cost. For things like this- where use life is probably 10+ years- I wouldn't allow a few hundred dollars to stand in my way of "win on sound quality overall" but price certainly is a factor for many. If money was really tight, I'd buy the Sony budget worth of Sonos and then add "the rest" later... which would basically be roughly the Subwoofer piece.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Agile55
I liked Sonos just fine until they changed their app. Just look at the recent reviews since the change. 90% 1’s or 2’s, and most of the rest are 3’s. Even with all that, their average rating is still in the higher 4’s because people used to like them. If Apple showed the average over the last six months, it would be around 1.5.
 
Just going to chime in that I've been using Sonos for ~4.5 years. I haven't run into any problems using the app. I admit I only use the Sonos app rarely because I use Spotify app with airplay to play music and you dont need it to watch TV. I just upgraded from the Arc to Arc Ultra and that went smoothly (noticeable improvement btw). Just wanted to provide another datapoint that Sonos systems still works well under many common scenarios but I understand that many others are affected by the app issues.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agile55
This is clearly a network issue. If you know how to set up a network you will have no issues with Sonos speakers.
I wouldn’t say that I’m the most knowledgeable person re: networks but I’m above average. I set up a UniFi network at my office and have made sure that the Sonos speakers are all on the same WiFi network. All I know is that it used to work perfectly before the new app released and then it started dropping speakers, Spotify stopped being responsive on the app, etc. Why? I’m not sure but it should be easier for someone who’s not a complete Luddite. I hope that’s a fair and reasonable expectation.

I will say that my speakers are relatively old. Maybe they just don’t make them as compatible despite all available firmware updates. If that’s the case, shame on them for an entirely separate reason. Their speakers are priced high and it’s reasonable to expect smooth compatibility for the life of the speaker.
 
If there was an ability to give you some monetary thumbs up alternative, I’d give you a buck for this essay. I don’t use Sonos, but looking them up since I’m building my smart home and I like the overall “feeling” of those audio systems, especially since there’s an interesting IKEA Symfonisk Lamp + Speaker hybrid that I’d want to buy in a few months. And I was very surprised to find out that series is actually a part of their collab with Sonos.

If you don’t mind, I’d like to keep a copy of your comment locally since it has some useful new info and a good take from what seems to be an actual long-time owner of their products. Might be useful when I get my hands on a Sonos system myself.

Cheers, dude!
I tried one of those IKEA Sonos speakers for the kitchen. It would show up under airplay and on the Sonos app, would play sometimes and then the sound would just stop. Multiple resets and hours of wasted time for just one speaker, it eventually just showed a constant red light and failed to reset. Returned and never again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agile55
Ahead of 200 posts ripping Sonos left & right for the new app with words like "destroyed", "useless", etc, I'll offer this:
  • Apple people do not even need to touch the new app in a Sonos system already set up. I've owned Sonos speakers for years, use them nearly every day and just about never open the iDevice app. Instead I play music to them from Apple Music app (just as one can airplay to any other speakers too). Friends with them set up as home theater speakers just turn on their TV and their remote controls them (no app required). When I do use the new app to play- say- the Sonos music stations themselves (or Pandora/tunein/etc), it works just fine for me.
  • The Mac Sonos app is still readily available as the "same old Mac app" for anyone willing to "workaround" if they don't like the new app. While less convenient than one on a mobile device, it is fully functional as a workaround until the new app gets to where one judges it needs to be.
  • I've helped friends set up new Sonos systems since the new app was released and all went just fine using the new app.
  • Objective reviews often rank Sonos towards the top of all smart speaker choices. Perhaps that's part of the problem here since Apple also sells smart speakers? All Apple competitors are bad, bad, bad.
  • The new app is a wholesale change from the old app... exactly like Apple sometimes makes wholesale changes to apps. Those who do not like change vent.
  • The new app appears to be an attempt to bring most popular uses of their app to the top. Previously, they were often multiple clicks away, but now you can design the "home" page as you want it and it's one click to play. I learned how to build the top "home" page as I want it and very much appreciate one click to anything I want to play now... vs. how the old app handled it.
  • The new app has been out a good while now... and has had multiple updates to put some missing features back in again.
All that is not to say there were NO problems with the new app: many did have some negative experience with it- especially on release quite a while ago. Wholesale change requires learning new ways to do old things and that sometimes gets a lot of gripes all to itself. In Sonos's RUSH to release it, they did not include some features available in the old app... and subtraction of features/functionality often yields gripes. Sonos clearly could have handled the change much better than they did but the rush to new revenue seems to have overridden enough beta testing to try to get it right the first time. Our favorite company makes that same mistake on an annual basis these days.

The point of this post is to help those who may read the thread understand that it's not all abominationationally terrible doom & gloom destruction & futility for all Apple people everywhere who own or want to own Sonos equipment... even if it appears that way by the time you get to post 100 or so. In the ways speakers are mostly used with Apple stuff, one doesn't even have to open the Sonos app at all (and could even delete it entirely with no consequence). Friends with recent installations gush & praise how well their setups sound, work, work with AppleTV-based setups, play home-shared media or airplayed music, etc... none of which requires opening the Sonos app at all.

If you want some smart speakers that have already worked out a solid surround sound setup with subwoofer (vs. only stereo at best HomePods) from a company focused on only speakers (vs. that being a hobby-like sideline) and like what you read on objective sites and in objective reviews about Sonos, consider buying from someone with a solid return policy and then HEAR with your own ears in your own home. If it's as bad as some say, return them. And if it's as it has been for my own friends (and myself), you'll probably find they are quite great in a mostly-to-fully Apple home.

Now on with the brand bashfest... 🍿
1. If you just Airplay why even bother with sonos? You get more for your money spent elsewhere.
Key features of the app is que management and can be controlled by 10 different devices, on device with buttons etc like no one else.
2. The Mac Sonos app is currently disabled in lots of ways
3. The sacked the CEO over the app, which tells you how bad it is

I had to revert back to Sonos S1 to be able to use it which works ok for me but I will never buy a new Sonos product.
 
I did. There was no true passthrough setting after digging through the LG documentation. I had a regular 5.1 soundbar setup from ~2019 before trying out the Sonos that had no real issues besides being a bit flat. Again, the Sonos sounded and looked great. It was the arc ultra, sonos sub 4, and two Sonos era 300s setup. If it was just for streaming lossless audio, I would've kept it. But I also felt dumb buying all that speaker power and having my wife point out a very noticeable audio delay while watching Wicked on Apple TV.

It's all moot now, my wired system is the bees knees and I don't regret buying it.
Totally get it, I cannot stand lip sync issues while watching tv myself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8667132
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.