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The problem is the go-to-market strategy... companies like comcast own the highway into your home and the provide the content and don't want competitors.

Even if Sony does create the product and the back-end service, they still need a go-to-market strategy. Apple has the backend service, and is working on the product. The puzzle is the go-to-market.

They either have to work with Comcast, etc Or change the playing field and drag them in kicking & scratching (like they done with their product disruptors).


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The problem is the go-to-market strategy... companies like comcast own the highway into your home and the provide the content and don't want competitors.

Even if Sony does create the product and the back-end service, they still need a go-to-market strategy. Apple has the backend service, and is working on the product. The puzzle is the go-to-market.

They either have to work with Comcast, etc Or change the playing field and drag them in kicking & scratching (like they done with their product disruptors).


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What Sony is doing it making their own Network that will have content on that network. That way, the content can be used on Sony devices at ease.
 
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Sony could be a success on a small scale but I think Apple's more like to win the masses.

This is not a typical Sony move. I want to know who's marketing plan was shown the side door and a trip to Japan landed this. Eventually, television networks become obsolete with content control going away from elites. This is one more step in that direction.
 
Citing that Sony reached out to Comcast owned NBC-Universal is hillarious!

No matter what Comcast said or agreed to in their filing, this was totally about having leverage in the market and market decisions.

The only prayer anyone has with Comcast-NBC-Universal (thats a mouthful) is that they had to sell their soul to get approval, and their refusal to work with other companies could be a violation of their agreement they made with the FTC, which is laughable as it's almost non-enforceable anyway.
 
I am using an AppleTV2, apparently you're not aware of what they're capable of.

You can download anything you like, rip it using Handbrake, and then drag it into iTunes. iTunes will treat it like any other digital content.

Once, let's say Dexter, is in iTunes I can add artwork, the episode ID, group it by season and content type, even add en equalizer setting if I choose to.

From there I can watch it on my LG TV.

So, no, it's nothing like some of the proprietary madness that Sony has tried to lock people into in the past.

I didn't say an AppleTV, I said Apple's (hypothetical) television set that was getting a rumor every day a week or two ago.

And I'm not even slightly interested in what iTunes allows you to do. My question was about playing back video content you purchased from Apple on a non-Apple device (and I mean without transcoding). Heck, how about trying to swap one of those special hard drives in the new iMacs? Apple users complaining about lock-in is rich.
 
The problem is the go-to-market strategy... companies like comcast own the highway into your home and the provide the content and don't want competitors.

Even if Sony does create the product and the back-end service, they still need a go-to-market strategy. Apple has the backend service, and is working on the product. The puzzle is the go-to-market.

They either have to work with Comcast, etc Or change the playing field and drag them in kicking & scratching (like they done with their product disruptors).


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I think Sony and Apple both wanted to create a mini cable network via the web as a direct competitor to cable service. More like a new cable market, but more cherry picked.

The back end service isn't an issue for Sony. It's content partners. (Sony owns a large chunk of Hollywood, in case you forgot: film, tv, etc.)

Do you know how many cable channels are owned in full or in part by Cable providers? The ones who aren't also would have to feel the wrath of Comcast and TWC, and others. Then we get into the fact that the content providers who are free and clear to do what they want still charge a hefty fee to cable operators that they're going to want to charge to Sony/Apple or whoever.

Do cable companies gouge us? Absolutely, but their weighting costs do come down to what they pay to content providers. This is why you see cable providers buying or investing in networks. It cuts their costs, and allows them to profit off of their competitors who need those networks.

Then you get into the muddy issue of needing a really fast internet connection for such a service. (So you still are giving a cable operator money anyway, and cable companies charge a premium for their internet services if you don't subscribe to their TV offerings. So much of a premium, that for $20-$20 more, you could just have a full package with them. Comcast will charge you around $70 for internet alone at a decent speed. Slow connections don't make for great TV over the net.) If Apple/Sony really wanted to compete, simply streaming content would never be enough. It would need to be real time, and providers are not going to want to circumvent commercials that make them the bulk of their money.

I think if any companies out there would ever consider such a thing, it's not going to be network tv (cable or broadcast). It would be subscription channels: HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, Stars, etc. They would be the only group that would have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

HBO doesn't allow web subscription even for their HBO app because they have contract limitations with cable operators, and I'm sure the others do. Now when those contracts need renewed, maybe that could change.

It will always come back to money. At the end of the day, advertisements are the bread and butter of content providers, and any model that wants to cut that gravy train will never fly.

Now Sony actually has a leg up on Apple. They OWN a crap load of content. Sony Pictures owns MGM now, in addition to Tri-Star, and several other groups they've acquired over the years. They also own tons of television shows, and music resources. Where Sony has a chance that Apple didn't is they have something to bargain with: their own content availability. They could also launch a service exclusive of their own content.

So will we see a service from Sony like the rumor suggests? I doubt it, but I could totally see a Sony service with a great bulk of content in it that might be compelling enough to subscribe to.
 
I think Sony and Apple both wanted to create a mini cable network via the web as a direct competitor to cable service. More like a new cable market, but more cherry picked.
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ah, thx for the clarification, I misunderstand the US cable networks...

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People already associate Sony with tv. If they come out with it first, people will remember the Sony name. Apple has no recognition in the tv market.

People also associate Zenith with tv. ;)

As a former Trintron owner, one could argue that whatever cache Sony once enjoyed has been squandered in the last ten years. Even my parents, who used to be unable to conceive of buying anything electronic that wasn't from Sony, just bought a Samsung television. Instead, they've become more known for repeated security breaches and creating failed proprietary formats.

My lone remaining Sony device is the PS3. Were it not for its Uncharted franchise exclusivity, I'd have had it on Ebay a long time ago.

In stark contrast to Sony, Apple's brand popularity and reputation for innovation seem IMHO much better poised to shake up the living room.

-MNF

P.S. As for Apple's reputation in the TV market, the AppleTV is a popular device by many standards. Anecdotal evidence: My luddite parents much prefer its interface to that of the built-in web media applications on their television.
 
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I didn't say an AppleTV, I said Apple's (hypothetical) television set that was getting a rumor every day a week or two ago.

And I'm not even slightly interested in what iTunes allows you to do. My question was about playing back video content you purchased from Apple on a non-Apple device (and I mean without transcoding). Heck, how about trying to swap one of those special hard drives in the new iMacs? Apple users complaining about lock-in is rich.

So, you think that a future Apple Television wouldn't use iTunes?
 
Now that our TVs have a couple of hundred channels, wouldn't it be nice if we could use other than channel 3? The cable companies need to figure a way to work with the TV manufacturers.

You're kidding, right? Am I reading you correctly? Are you still connecting your cable box to Channel 3?

The 80s called and they want their setup back

LOL. My TiVo and Comcast boxes connect to the AV crossbar switch through HDMI - at the best quality that each source can deliver. And the Faroudja chips in the crossbar convert each source to 1080p for the HDMI uplink to the XBR monitor. (and the crossbar does a best-effort to convert the audio for the 6.1 surround system)

The TiVo doesn't even have a "channel 3" RF output. The Comcast box has an RF output, but it's never been connected.


If it's the Sony that we've come to know then the service will be cheap and adequate at best.

It will probably be like everything else Sony does and will undermine itself by trying to lock people into an expensive and unrewarding Sonysphere of unnecessary proprietary peripherals and only Sony owned content.

Can we say *cough* *cough* Thunderbolt and *cough* *cough* *cough* Itunes?


Can I buy a movie on iTunes and play it on whatever software or device I want?

So, you think that a future Apple Television wouldn't use iTunes?

More *coughs*....
 
I am dead certain it would. Do you understand what I'm saying? I'm talking about Apple not letting you taking their content elsewhere and locking you into their devices.

It's a good thing they give you a choice, then. I don't think Apple will be as bad as Sony based on the different histories of proprietary requirements.

As long as Apple doesn't try to lock you into iTunes only content, they should be more successful. I don't know what Apple will ultimately do, with any level of certainty. Just that it would be stupid for them to do that.

It also goes against the legacy of Apple, which is to change the delivery model in order to make sales more important that unit price. Apple fought hard to keep the cost of new songs at $0.99 and even fought to remove DRM at a slightly higher cost with better audio values.

Unless the loss of Steve Jobs has already resulted in major culture changes at Apple, I don't think they are going to become the bad version of Sony quite so soon.

Sony, on the other hand, keeps trying the 'only Sony' proprietary route based on a great reputation they had 20 years ago.

I don't see Sony and Apple going the same route on this, I think Apple understands that the delivery model for content is broken and that lowering prices is key to more consumption.
 
Yes! I would love for Sony to have my personal information so that hackers can break in and steal it while Sony says nothing!

Go Sony!

....no no not really. Sony is a company that needs to crash and burn.


...now if Apple did it on the other hand...
 
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Sony, on the other hand, keeps trying the 'only Sony' proprietary route based on a great reputation they had 20 years ago.

Do you really think Sony is going to produce a TV that will only accept Sony content? Have they ever done that? No. It's ridiculous. Yes, Sony has made some bad content decisions over the years. So has Apple. Sony has not made a TV that does not take standard inputs, and I'm not going to give any more attention to the notion that they ever will.
 
Do you really think Sony is going to produce a TV that will only accept Sony content? Have they ever done that? No. It's ridiculous. Yes, Sony has made some bad content decisions over the years. So has Apple. Sony has not made a TV that does not take standard inputs, and I'm not going to give any more attention to the notion that they ever will.

"Have the ever done that?"

Yes, Sony has made overly restrictive proprietary decisions in the past based on their reputation and have been hurt it because of consumer rejection of too high a price for the product delivered.

All I've been saying is that if Sony tries their only Sony approach again, as they've done a number of times, they will be hurt by it if competitors can deliver a better product & service, as Sony's competitors have been able to do in the past. Hurting Sony sales.

Sony, as they are today, are a far cry from their market height, when Sony (decades ago) dominated consumer electronics in quality and technology.
 
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Can we say *cough* *cough* Thunderbolt and *cough* *cough* *cough* Itunes?

More *coughs*....

Not to be a stickler, but Intel is the one that makes money on licensing Thunderbolt, just like they do with USB. Apple may even be paying Intel to use it. I'm glad though, as the technology looks like it can make life better if mass adopted due to it providing one multi-use wire.

As for iTunes, only video has DRM. If you find a legal download video store without DRM, please let us know. :)

As a former Trintron owner, one could argue that whatever cache Sony once enjoyed has been squandered in the last ten years. Even my parents, who used to be unable to conceive of buying anything electronic that wasn't from Sony, just bought a Samsung television. Instead, they've become more known for repeated security breaches and creating failed proprietary formats.


The Floppy, Beta tapes, CDs, DAT, and DVDs all came out prior to the last ten years. I would not be surprised if a large proportion of people in the MR forums are predated by most of this technology, and, therefore, do not equate Sony with them. The ultimate popularity of Beta and DAT is also debatable having quickly become niche products in all but a few parts of the world.

As for Blu-Ray, what percentage of the market does it hold now? I believe it is up to 15% in the US according to the blue book report from Home Media Magazine published a few months ago, and its future remains cloudy.
 
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Can we say *cough* *cough* Thunderbolt and *cough* *cough* *cough* Itunes?

The key words he used in describing Sony were "expensive" and "unrewarding".

Thunderbolt is an Intel technology that is the logical successor to USB and Firewire. It will be the industry standard, unlike the comparison to Sony's usually doomed proprietary endeavors.

iTunes is neither expensive nor unrewarding.
 
...when your service provider limits your data to 250Gb a month. TV via the web will easy hit that cap when someone in your house has the set on most of the day.

The cable company still controls the pipe.

Internet service is based on shared bandwidth. Not everyone has a T1 line running into their home, so the cable companies do have to manage this bandwidth somehow.

Can't you switch provider? I've been through 6 ISPs before I settled on my current one (BT Infinity with no bandwidth). Surely there's an unlimited bandwidth option available?

Unlimited monthly bandwidth doesn't solve every problem. The issue will probably be how well things work at peak hours with such a system.

Thanks to the iPhone we are already using the internet for iMessaging, Facetime, Skyping

Yes... credit Apple for something that predated them. They didn't invent any of that. They did come out with a very successful phone design. Literally within a week of the first iphone, every email message that I personally received changed from the footer "sent from my blackberry" to "sent from my iphone".

Can we say *cough* *cough* Thunderbolt and *cough* *cough* *cough* Itunes?

Intel still owns thunderbolt. Apple is not receiving any royalties. It's supposed to come out on the Windows side next year, so Apple essentially beta tested the technology for Intel.
 
People also associate Zenith with tv. ;)
As a former Trintron owner, one could argue that whatever cache Sony once enjoyed has been squandered in the last ten years. Even my parents, who used to be unable to conceive of buying anything electronic that wasn't from Sony, just bought a Samsung television. Instead, they've become more known for repeated security breaches and creating failed proprietary formats.

*Cough* Blu-ray *Cough*

Wow - there must be a bug floating around the forums now. ;)
 
Not to be a stickler, but Intel is the one that makes money on Thunderbolt, ...

With only one minority vendor selling systems with TBolt, I doubt that TBolt is "making money" for Intel yet. (But, of course, no one at Intel would have expected a profit in the first year.)


As for Blu-Ray, what percentage of the market does it hold now? I believe it is up to 15% in the US according to the blue book report from Home Media Magazine published a few months ago, and its future remains cloudy.

And Apple just broke past 7.5% in European sales, and the fans think that world domination is just around the corner.

;)
 
Sony beats Apple to the punch. Tens of millions of Sony tv's in homes. It might work.

Unfortunately, Sony will likely get it almost right. The word "almost" is the operative word... they so often leave some part of the equation out so whatever they come up with "Just <doesn't> work." Too bad, I'd love to see them succeed.
 
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