Sorry but three gens of keyboard is a mess

[thadoggfather]

i think I have gen1 butterfly on my 2016 ntb (edit: gen 2 in relation to 12” , but the first type of the 2016 MBP’s ‘new’ design) and still works fine and is clicky and noisy minus having to hit volume down key at right angle cause an underlying latch is broken. But still too afraid to repair it cause the keyboard is great overall and I can’t be without my machine (have AppleCare tho)

But changing the design to be similar year over year, for a third time now, since 2017 got a silent KB upgrade (unmarketed), incrementally, shows Apple themselves doesn’t have confidence in their keyboards that didn’t go through rigorous engineering testing or sampling how users felt about it

...Makes you wonder if you get a 2018 is a massively improved keyboard just down the road ? Also adds to consumer confusion in the resell market. Someone needs a PhD in apple keyboards to know what they’re getting

Imo

Keyboards shouldn’t be this bleeding edge thing like iPhone specs. Get it together Apple!

Hopefully this 3rd gen solves peoples complaints but I’m reading it’s same travel and feel simply quieter so the crumb resistant patented keyboard still hasn’t rolled out so I have a feeling it won’t

 

[Beau10]

The keyboard on your machine is a Gen II. The Gen I is only found on the first iterations of the 12" Macbook.

It seems like it's up for debate whether or not there are only 3 iterations - some believe they've made a few silent revisions as well... maybe for the 2017 model, late 2017, etc. based on trying to fix issues with durability.

I guess the good news here is Apple is advertising this as an updated model, the first since late 2016. Yes it is only claimed to quieter, but actually calling it a gen III implies a significant redesign to the mechanism, so that's good news for those worried about durability - if they perceived this to be a problem they probably took steps to address it at some level. Unfortunately, I don't think they're going to openly admit the issue.

As far as getting a massively redesigned keyboard, if that happens it most likely will come during the next physical redesign of the machine which could be a few years out.

There is this recent patent though

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-patent-crumb-keyboard/

 

[thadoggfather]

The keyboard on your machine is a Gen II. The Gen I is only found on the first iterations of the 12" Macbook.

It seems like it's up for debate whether or not there are only 3 iterations - some believe they've made a few silent revisions as well... maybe for the 2017 model, late 2017, etc. based on trying to fix issues with durability.

I guess the good news here is Apple is advertising this as an updated model, the first since late 2016. Yes it is only claimed to quieter, but actually calling it a gen III implies a significant redesign to the mechanism, so that's good news for those worried about durability - if they perceived this to be a problem they probably took steps to address it at some level. Unfortunately, I don't think they're going to openly admit the issue.

As far as getting a massively redesigned keyboard, if that happens it most likely will come during the next physical redesign of the machine which could be a few years out.

There is this recent patent though

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-patent-crumb-keyboard/

As far as I know, yes my 2016 is technically 2nd gen

But there was a 2.1 keyboard , a different one people got after a repair

And now a clear 3rd gen. So technically 3 generations since 2016 and 2017 varied slightly as well (but not marketed like the 2018 is)

 

[Beau10]

But there was a 2.1 keyboard , a different one people got after a repair

From the second line of my comment: "It seems like it's up for debate whether or not there are only 3 iterations - some believe they've made a few silent revisions as well... maybe for the 2017 model, late 2017, etc. based on trying to fix issues with durability."

 

[thadoggfather]

From the second line of my comment: "It seems like it's up for debate whether or not there are only 3 iterations - some believe they've made a few silent revisions as well... maybe for the 2017 model, late 2017, etc. based on trying to fix issues with durability."

I got ya but it’s a semantics
Things so that’s part doesn’t matter to me

I follow what you’re saying tho 12” mb keyboard is diffeeent from mbp’s

2016-2018 mbp and especially 2016 dependent on repair service or late / late manufacturing or not , there are three types of keyboards in a short period of time

The fact that it’s confusing to us, on MR, is a testament the average person will need a degree to figure out what keyboard they’re getting 2016-2017

 

[JPack]

Yes it is only claimed to quieter, but actually calling it a gen III implies a significant redesign to the mechanism, so that's good news for those worried about durability - if they perceived this to be a problem they probably took steps to address it at some level. Unfortunately, I don't think they're going to openly admit the issue.

Calling the keyboard Gen 3 merely implies Apple has an effective marketing team at work. It would be insane for Apple to improve reliability of the keyboard but deny it. To what end? To preserve the resale value of 2016/2017 models and lower the sales of 2018 and newer models?

“This new third-generation keyboard wasn’t designed to solve those issues, Apple says. In fact, company representatives strenuously insisted that the keyboard issues have only affected a tiny, tiny fraction of its user base.”

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/...-touchbar-2018-intel-processor-siri-true-tone

 

[Beau10]

The fact that it’s confusing to us, on MR, is a testament the average person will need a degree to figure out what keyboard they’re getting 2016-2017

Agreed, it's sad that the consumer is left to speculate about this stuff. The big picture view is that the butterfly keyboard was a flawed design out of the gate and Apple is taking multiple steps to mitigate the issues.
[doublepost=1531407974][/doublepost]

Calling the keyboard Gen 3 merely implies Apple has an effective marketing team at work. It would be insane for Apple to improve reliability of the keyboard but deny it. To what end? To preserve the resale value of 2016/2017 models and lower the sales of 2018 and newer models?

They have to deny it because of pending legal issues and the possibility of having to do a full recall. It's a tricky place to be in - if they can't admit there is an issue, they can't admit there is a fix to the issue. They can say that something has been redesigned though... but I agree that it simply may be a marketing thing, and GIII may be a stamp on a collection of small tweaks they've made since GII.

I guess we'll have to wait for the tear down.

 

[JPack]

They have to deny it because of pending legal issues and the possibility of having to do a full recall. It's a tricky place to be in - if they can't admit there is an issue, they can't admit there is a fix to the issue. They can say that something has been redesigned though... but I agree that it simply may be a marketing thing, and GIII may be a stamp on a collection of small tweaks they've made since

The current keyboard repair program is already an admission.

Recalls only apply to products with safety issues. Right now, anyone with a keyboard problem can bring in their MacBook for repair.

 

[Beau10]

The current keyboard repair program is already an admission.

Recalls only apply to products with safety issues. Right now, anyone with a keyboard problem can bring in their MacBook for repair.

Fair point, but the legal issues still pose a threat to the company. They're claiming that it's a tiny portion of the userbase that is having issues and acting like there isn't a durability problem.

 

[unobtainium]

“This new third-generation keyboard wasn’t designed to solve those issues, Apple says. In fact, company representatives strenuously insisted that the keyboard issues have only affected a tiny, tiny fraction of its user base.”

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/...-touchbar-2018-intel-processor-siri-true-tone

That quote is unbelievable to me. I waited to buy a new MBP, worrying about all the keyboard issues I’ve heard about. Finally I convinced myself that it probably wouldn’t affect me and bought a 2017 model. Within a couple months one key started giving me problems. Weeks later a second key is repeating. I haven’t taken it in for repair yet (and I’m sure there are many many users who never will) but I cannot believe that it’s a tiny fraction of users who have the problem. It’s just inherent to these keyboards.

 

[redheeler]

Calling the keyboard Gen 3 merely implies Apple has an effective marketing team at work. It would be insane for Apple to improve reliability of the keyboard but deny it. To what end? To preserve the resale value of 2016/2017 models and lower the sales of 2018 and newer models?

“This new third-generation keyboard wasn’t designed to solve those issues, Apple says. In fact, company representatives strenuously insisted that the keyboard issues have only affected a tiny, tiny fraction of its user base.”

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/...-touchbar-2018-intel-processor-siri-true-tone

Most people probably wouldn't make a distinction between the 2017 and 2018 models. Hence Apple still attempts to deny the keyboards were ever a problem.