South Korean Court Declares Samsung and Apple Violated Each Other's Patents, Halts Product Sales of Older Devices

[pacalis]

Stop bashing on these lawyers. These are corporate lawyers paid a salary regardless of the outcome. They aren't the ambulance chasers that take 50%

Corporate counsel aren't typically expert at handle complex IP cases. With all major litigation corporate lawyers work with external firms.

 

[Compile 'em all]

Anyone knows when is the final verdict in the US?

 

[2bikes]

that hurts samsung way, way worse. Nexus, s2, and those tablets are still some of their top sellers

And S3 doesn't use the bounce effect? It could be that s3 wasn't included in the trial because it was just launched when they were preparing for the case and that with this result they can act on it quickly.

 

[KPOM]

please, dont post without researching first.

Given that the Samsung devices that were banned were also their top sellers (even to this day) it'll hurt them a hell of a lot more than it'll hurt Apple.

So yes. It is actually pretty fair, and there was most certainly zero 'home court' advantage here.

As has been said before, BOTH companies are EQUALLY responsible for patent violations, Apple is not some innocent bystander here, far from it.
.

I read in the FT that it may be easier for Samsung to work around the patents (to remove the bounceback feature) than for Apple to work around the wireless patents. However, I suspect that Apple will be able to license the wireless patents, albeit on less favorable terms. Samsung can't go too far, though, since that could draw the ire of regulators in the US and Europe concerned about Samsung using FRAND patents as "weapons."

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Anyone knows when is the final verdict in the US?

However long it takes for the jury to get through their deliberations. Most guesses are that it will be measured in weeks.

 

[ahireasu]

Guess it's easier to play on the home court. "Apple, you can't sell your new stuff. Samsung, you can't sell the stuff that you're not selling any more anyway." Really fair.

Are you serious?What are you smoking?iphone 4 and ipad 2 is new products while SGS2 and tablets 7" and 10.1" are old?
You sould cut the apple pipe is not good for you.

 

[2bikes]

I read in the FT that it may be easier for Samsung to work around the patents (to remove the bounceback feature) than for Apple to work around the wireless patents. However, I suspect that Apple will be able to license the wireless patents, albeit on less favorable terms. Samsung can't go too far, though, since that could draw the ire of regulators in the US and Europe concerned about Samsung using FRAND patents as "weapons."

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However long it takes for the jury to get through their deliberations. Most guesses are that it will be measured in weeks.

Out of tens of iOS patents, Apple is pursuing the bounce back the most. This must have some significance. Maybe in their eye, it is one of the most important effects for consumer acceptance. Samsung can remove it with a simple update and Apple probably already knows this but doesn't think it will help Samsung.

 

[DwightSchrute]

I wish the US courts would ban sales of both company's devices. That might be the key to making them stop this ridiculous patent war. Maybe Microsoft/Nokia could pay off some judge to do it.

 

[KPOM]

Out of tens of iOS patents, Apple is pursuing the bounce back the most. This must have some significance. Maybe in their eye, it is one of the most important effects for consumer acceptance. Samsung can remove it with a simple update and Apple probably already knows this but doesn't think it will help Samsung.

My guess is that it makes the UI appear more refined. Somewhat facetiously, Apple also "suggested" to Samsung as part of the US federal case that they could work around Apple's design patents by cluttering up their home screens.

 

[samcraig]

And S3 doesn't use the bounce effect? It could be that s3 wasn't included in the trial because it was just launched when they were preparing for the case and that with this result they can act on it quickly.

My Skyrocket doesn't use the bounce effect. That came out prior to the SIII.

I'm not directing this at you - but to board posters in general. I understand that many people here love their iPhones and iOS - I do to. I have plenty of Apple devices. But I also read and learn about other devices and their OS. It seems that some posters here never bother to do the same and either post guesses or opinions as facts which just proliferates "bad data." What's worse is - then it becomes "canon" and other people use that same bad data on other threads.

It's ok not to know something. I certainly don't know everything there is to know about the case, Samsung or Apple. But when I do post - I do my best to make sure it's factually correct and/or I state quite clearly that I don't know and ask for someone to verify whether I'm correct or not.

Again - this is not directed at you 2bikes. Just making a point.

 

[mjtomlin]

Samsung invented the 3G technology that Apple is using. (Without permission)

Samsung has IP used in the 3G specification, but so does Apple and a few dozen other companies around the world. Samsung has no other option but to sue over these patents that they refuse to license for a reasonable fee. They are playing the public perception game here; trying to make Apple look bad by "stealing" their IP. Samsung needs to be careful if they continue down this path, they are already in trouble (as is Motorola) in the EU and the USA for attempting to use these SEPs to block sales of competing devices.

Apple has gone on record saying they would never sue over standards essential patents, and so far they've been true to their word.

 

[shartypants]

I love it! The Korean court is treating them like their kids: ok, if you both can't get a long, I'm taking away some of the toys from each of you!

Maybe they will think twice about going to court again

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Guess it's easier to play on the home court. "Apple, you can't sell your new stuff. Samsung, you can't sell the stuff that you're not selling any more anyway." Really fair.

umm the iPhone4 and iPad2 are apples new stuff? that is a new one.

 

[samcraig]

Pretty subjective though.

What one company deems "fair" might not seem "fair" to another. Which is why the courts are deciding.

And what one company deems "essential patents" another might not.

Both companies are "playing" the same game.

Samsung has IP used in the 3G specification, but so does Apple and a few dozen other companies around the world. Samsung has no other option but to sue over these patents that they refuse to license for a reasonable fee. They are playing the public perception game here; trying to make Apple look bad by "stealing" their IP. Samsung needs to be careful if they continue down this path, they are already in trouble (as is Motorola) in the EU and the USA for attempting to use these SEPs to block sales of competing devices.

Apple has gone on record saying they would never sue over standards essential patents, and so far they've been true to their word.

 

[johncarync]

Apple's fine of $17,650 might not sound like much but,
in South Korean currency, it's ₩20,000,000.

 

[boronathan]

I don't think this hurts either side much if at all

 

[sweetbrat]

Stop bashing on these lawyers. These are corporate lawyers paid a salary regardless of the outcome. They aren't the ambulance chasers that take 50%

I didn't see anyone "bashing" the lawyers. Someone just said that they're the winners in all this, which is true. Whether or not they get a portion of the settlement money, they're still the only ones that are coming out on top here. They're getting paid. Apple and Samsung, at least in this case, are at a bit of a stalemate.

 

[Jb07]

Its FRAND.

By definition, Apple and Samsung have to come to an agreement on fair and reasonable licensing fees, though in most other countries, there would be no injunction as there are other remedies.

South Korea needs to be careful that they don't inevitably start a trade war over FRANDed IP.

Not trying to be rude, but I think the judges know what they are doing.

 

[willmtaylor]

Its[sic] FRAND.

By definition, Apple and Samsung have to come to an agreement on fair and reasonable licensing fees, though in most other countries, there would be no injunction as there are other remedies.

South Korea needs to be careful that they don't inevitably start a trade war over FRANDed IP.

This type of litigation is only legit/allowed in Korean courts, so this has little effect elsewhere (I.e. the current battle in the U.S. court).

Also, I find it humorous that the Galaxy Tabs are banned; this will probably cost Samsung literally HUNDREDS of dollars in sales.

 

[KdParker]

So this is like a split decision. Why not just throw out both lawsuits?

 

[Cjet500]

Apple's fine of $17,650 might not sound like much but,
in South Korean currency, it's ₩20,000,000.

Image

And you should also let people know how Korean Won works too.
In US, a penny or $0.01 is the lowest value while Korean Won is 10. There are no below 10 Won so no 5won 1 won or in decimals. So, Korean Won is simply *1000. A penny $0.01 is 10 Won. If Korean Won started at 0.01 instead of 10 won then all of sudden 20 million Won becomes 20,000 or if a penny was 10 instead of 0.01 then you are looking at 17million.
It's a simple math. It's a matter of what unit(or decimals) you prefer to use. Don't try to give an impression that the court fines from Korea is somehow a significant number

 

[KdParker]

I wish the US courts would ban sales of both company's devices. That might be the key to making them stop this ridiculous patent war. Maybe Microsoft/Nokia could pay off some judge to do it.

Whoaaaa...hold on there.

Let me get my iPhone 5 (or new iPhone) first.

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Corporate counsel aren't typically expert at handle complex IP cases. With all major litigation corporate lawyers work with external firms.

Absolutly, these are firms that are getting nice fees for there services.

 

[2bikes]

My Skyrocket doesn't use the bounce effect. That came out prior to the SIII.

I'm not directing this at you - but to board posters in general. I understand that many people here love their iPhones and iOS - I do to. I have plenty of Apple devices. But I also read and learn about other devices and their OS. It seems that some posters here never bother to do the same and either post guesses or opinions as facts which just proliferates "bad data." What's worse is - then it becomes "canon" and other people use that same bad data on other threads.

It's ok not to know something. I certainly don't know everything there is to know about the case, Samsung or Apple. But when I do post - I do my best to make sure it's factually correct and/or I state quite clearly that I don't know and ask for someone to verify whether I'm correct or not.

Again - this is not directed at you 2bikes. Just making a point.

I understand your point and I agree. I have not used S3 and my question was a real question. I do however play around with other phones when I get a chance. It is just that there is so many different phones that it is impossible to research all of them and this is a forum to learn these things.

But having said this, I also see people reading comments from different POVs which change the perception of the reader. We don't have facial expressions or tones in letters. So maybe, there could be others out there that are like me, writing to questions and understand the facts.

 

[lcmazza]

Apple's beta testing = FAIL

wrong section

 

[surf2snow1]

And you should also let people know how Korean Won works too.
In US, a penny or $0.01 is the lowest value while Korean Won is 10. There are no below 10 Won so no 5won 1 won or in decimals. So, Korean Won is simply *1000. A penny $0.01 is 10 Won. If Korean Won started at 0.01 instead of 10 won then all of sudden 20 million Won becomes 20,000 or if a penny was 10 instead of 0.01 then you are looking at 17million.
It's a simple math. It's a matter of what unit(or decimals) you prefer to use. Don't try to give an impression that the court fines from Korea is somehow a significant number

Why not just start at 1 won instead of 10?

 

[Marcus-k]

Its FRAND.

By definition, Apple and Samsung have to come to an agreement on fair and reasonable licensing fees, though in most other countries, there would be no injunction as there are other remedies.

South Korea needs to be careful that they don't inevitably start a trade war over FRANDed IP.

Well obviously it's not FRAND, or atleast Samsung did nothing wrong, since the court ruled in Samsungs favour over it.

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Why not just start at 1 won instead of 10?

Why not start at 10 won instead of 1?