Specs of next gen rMBP?

[thaifood]

I would like to see 512GB SSD as entry level storage for the Retina. 256GB is a bit lacking for a "Pro" branded product line, in my opinion.

The rest of the spec will probably just be standard bumps (no more than 10-20ish% to be generous). Perhaps a/c wireless.

Macbook Air, I would like to see IPS panels to replace TN. If a redesign of the Air happens - they might be able to reduce the Air thickness if Haswell can deliver on the battery efficiency.

 

[calderone]

When is it going to sink in for folks that the use of "Pro" has little bearing on the feature set of the machine?

 

[dusk007]

@skeartus
All details about the architecture are already out and known. We won't get anymore than what Anandtech has already in their lengthy report.

@bill-p As far as your battery life discussion goes. What matters most for battery life is low load. Under full load all the notebooks run 1-2h tops. That is where TDP has some meaning.
Where there is supposed to be gains is in low load with the new active idle state already known from the current Atom. 45 or 47 is not a huge difference but if Intel can save 2 W during browsing or office work that usually means 20% gains and more.
A MBP that runs 7h with a 77wh battery must stay at 11W average system power with all and everything included. If the idle states lower that average at the same load scenario to 9W you have a big gain at your hands.
How quickly it can enter the different idle states, how low the power dips when entering this states, how often and frequently it can switch into those, that is where power is saved. The TDP only matters for servers that run close to max load most of the time.
That is what all this is about.
http://anandtech.com/show/6355/intels-haswell-architecture/2
and the following pages.

The TDP is usually set such as the cooling system allows. It is how much power can you provide at a maximum in some form factor when needed. If you look back over the past decade at full load the battery life per Wh hasn't really changed at all. Even the opposite in thinner notebooks you have today even more power consumption than you used to have and batteries didn't really grow all that much either.

 

[skaertus]

It is just a coincidence. Why would Apple be afraid of a laptop that's running what is basically a glorified web browser? It makes no sense. Even now, you can read the reviews of the Chromebook Pixel to see if it is really making that much buzz.

Meanwhile, I don't see Apple bat an eye while the competition comes out with better hardwares than the MacBook Air.

When Apple released the last version of the MBA, in June 2012, nearly all ultrabooks had specifications that were inferior or, at best, similar to it. The only one that stood out in the crowd was probably the Asus Zenbook Prime, because it featured an IPS screen with a 1920x1080 resolution. But putting a 1080p screen on the MBA is probably not the way Apple wants to do it; it will likely get a retina display sometime, and it was probably not yet for prime time back in June 2012.

Now, as of 2013, there are several ultrabooks which match or even surpass the MBA. Let's see what Apple will do.

Chances are the old line will stick for another generation at least, seeing as it's already got a refresh by this February.

I don't think so.

The old line didn't get a refresh in February. The higher-end 15" cMBP was discontinued but, apart from that, I only saw (minor) changes in the rMBP models. Did I lose something?

If Apple planned to discontinue the old line, then they should have dropped support for them by now. Prime example: the MacBook White was last updated in 2010. It wasn't updated in 2011, and then it was only discontinued by 2012.

I didn't know that. Well, perhaps Apple just stops updating and marketing the cMBP.

So my guess is that at least the 15" unibody will stick around for a whole year. If Apple was dropping them, then the refresh in Feb 2013 should have excluded them.

I don't know. Perhaps Apple feels that it should have a 15" option for those who can't afford paying US$ 2,199 for the rMBP. And perhaps it plans to discontinue the cMPB when it is able and/or willing to drop the prices of the rMBP. But, again, this is just a guess, and it's no better than yours. Apple's product launch strategies seem to me a bit confusing (to say the least) as of late. It's not following the pattern of the previous years.

Some things to take into account:

1) iPhone 5 still runs on 1GB of RAM. Competition has 2GB. iPhone 5 still runs on dual-core chip. Competition now has quad-core and even octo-core chips. iPhone 5 still has the same 8MP camera as iPhone 4S. The competition now has a 13MP camera. Also 4" isn't an aggressive push. The Galaxy S4 is 5". That's aggressive.

2) iPad Mini would have been approved by Steve Jobs. It's not 7" (it's more like 8"), and it's still the same form factor as the original iPad. Just with much smaller bezels.

3) The 4th generation iPad was launched in order to unify Lightning connector, nothing more. You're reading too much into it. If they were serious about it, they would have redesigned the thing as well.

4) Like I said, the 13" rMBP had its price dropped because of the February refresh, which has happened... every other year before. It's a usual ritual for Apple. The Chromebook Pixel being released near February is just coincidental.

5) The price of the MBA wasn't dropped. It has remained the same since forever. Apple is just upgrading its base specs.

6) Apple changes the ad campaign of the iPhone 5 all the time. Same for the iPad. It doesn't necessarily mean they're looking at the competition.

If I had to look at each of these facts in an isolated manner, I would agree with you. But it seems too much for me to swallow.

The ad change for the iPhone 5 is clearly towards the Galaxy S4, no doubt about it. It took the front page of Apple's website just as Samsung was unveiling its new top smartphone.

And the price of the MBA was dropped. The current design for the MBA was announced n October 2010. The prices were US$ 999 and US$ 1,199 for the 11"; and US$ 1,299 and US$ 1,599 for the 13". Now, the prices are US$ 999 and US$ 1,099 for the 11"; and US$ 1,199 and US$ 1,399 for the 13". There were price drops, and the last one was in February 2012, when the top range MBA dropped from US$ 1,499 to US$ 1,399.

Or they'll just upgrade its internals like always. I don't see why they have to redesign it so often. The last time they redesigned it was less than 3 years ago. They usually redesign products on a 4-year basis.

Yes, it was less than 3 years ago. But when the ULV Haswell processors are launched, 3 years would have passed already. The 1st gen MBA was redesigned in late 2010, about 2 years and a half following its original release, so a new redesign after 3 years is OK.

The MBP was redesigned after almost 4 years, but that doesn't happen with all the products. The iMac was redesigned in late 2012, after 3 years.

Amazon.com isn't the only place where you can buy rMBP, though, so its ranking is not reflective of actual sales at all.

That's for sure. But the 15" rMBP was much higher on Amazon.com rankings a few months ago.

And if the rMBP 15" wasn't selling well, Apple would have dropped its price by February just like with the 13". Why wait until a few months later?

Because the 15" rMBP is the only product of its type in the market today. No other laptop compares to it. I'm not saying the 15" rMBP is not selling well. It probably is selling well, especially if you consider that it's an expensive product. I'm just saying that it is probably one of the worst-selling Mac laptops, and that its sales have probably declined since launch.

Yeah, but again, you're just wishing for a price drop like with the 13". We both know how that turned out.

No, I'm not. Please don't take it to the personal level. I'm just looking at what I think it will be a trend. I may turn out to be wrong. I just don't care if Apple drops the price of the 15" rMBP or not, I'm not buying it anyway. I could also say that you are wishing that Apple doesn't drop the price of the 15" rMBP, so you can justify your investment in buying one after release. But I won't say that, and I wish you are not doing it, as it might bias your conclusions. Let's not take things personally. If you do take things this way, then I feel it won't be worth discussing it anymore.

Except there is a $1799 15" unibody MacBook sandwiched in between.

If Apple drops the 15" cMBP, which I think it plans to do, there will not be anything between them.

Also Apple's pricing tier doesn't have to be consistent as long as they sell things. Note: rMBP 13" initial pricing.

When Apple released the 13" rMBP, there were still laptops in a lower price range (the cMBP and the MBA). If you look at Apple's portfolio, there are options of products for every price you wish to pay.

Again, just because they dropped the price of one computer doesn't mean they have to drop the price of the other as well.

No, it really doesn't. But, again, it may happen. It's definitely a possibility.

As for the rest of the entry, I'll just post something later. I'm already late right now.

 

[urkel]

When is it going to sink in for folks that the use of "Pro" has little bearing on the feature set of the machine?

When the prices match the specs.

Once again, the USER is being blamed for the faults of Apples decisions. Why? Is it really unrealistic for a person to expect a machine with a $2000+ entry point to have storage options that would reflect the name that APPLE chose for their products?

There's nothing wrong with rational defenses for Apples decisions, but its obnoxious to bash the consumer for not being sycophants and actually questioning the products they invest money in.

 

[Crzyrio]

When the prices match the specs.

Once again, the USER is being blamed for the faults of Apples decisions. Why? Is it really unrealistic for a person to expect a machine with a $2000+ entry point to have storage options that would reflect the name that APPLE chose for their products?

There's nothing wrong with rational defenses for Apples decisions, but its obnoxious to bash the consumer for not being sycophants and actually questioning the products they invest money in.

Most 'Pros' never rely on built in storage, Most 'Pros' work of their external library and with the MBP Apple and Intel has provided us an excellent Thunderbolt interface that makes it awesome to work with.

If Apple were to give you a decent storage, say 1TB with an HDD that would be an utter disappointment, you have a top of the line machine handicapped by a 80MB/s HD. If they went with HDD then people would complain that " ....with a $2000+ entry point to have performance that would reflect the name that APPLE chose for their products?

 

[Stetrain]

After looking through the specs for AMD's new 8000M GPUs I'm thinking that we may see an AMD 8700M series GPU in the next gen 15" rMBP:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6571/amd-releases-full-product-specifications-for-radeon-8000m-series

The 8500/8600M series has half the memory bandwidth of the 8700M, which doesn't seem like a good fit for the number of pixels the rMBP needs to render and scale. The 8800M series is probably going to be way to hot and power hungry for the rMBP. It's also based on an older architecture.

The 8700M series also specs 2GB VRAM on all models, which again makes sense for the 15" rMBP's loads.

The only real difference between different models in the 8700M series (8730M vs 8750M etc.) is clock speed.

I haven't seen any TDP numbers yet for these GPUs so I don't know how they compare with the GT650M in power consumption and heat output, which will really be the main deciding factor for Apple.

This article says that the 8770M should be roughly comparable to the GT650M, so maybe the 8790M will be a good fit:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-8770M.86799.0.html

NVidia's lineup for early 2013 are basically just rebadges of previous generation GPUs. AMD is the only one with a new generation mobile GPU, so I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Apple go back to AMD this generation.

 

[Mr MM]

After looking through the specs for AMD's new 8000M GPUs I'm thinking that we may see an AMD 8700M series GPU in the next gen 15" rMBP:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6571/amd-releases-full-product-specifications-for-radeon-8000m-series

The 8500/8600M series has half the memory bandwidth of the 8700M, which doesn't seem like a good fit for the number of pixels the rMBP needs to render and scale. The 8800M series is probably going to be way to hot and power hungry for the rMBP. It's also based on an older architecture.

The 8700M series also specs 2GB VRAM on all models, which again makes sense for the 15" rMBP's loads.

The only real difference between different models in the 8700M series (8730M vs 8750M etc.) is clock speed.

I haven't seen any TDP numbers yet for these GPUs so I don't know how they compare with the GT650M in power consumption and heat output, which will really be the main deciding factor for Apple.

This article says that the 8770M should be roughly comparable to the GT650M, so maybe the 8790M will be a good fit:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-8770M.86799.0.html

NVidia's lineup for early 2013 are basically just rebadges of previous generation GPUs. AMD is the only one with a new generation mobile GPU, so I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Apple go back to AMD this generation.

actually the 8870m which is the 7870m has the same tdp as the 650m.

Regarding discontnuing the mbp, just take a look at when and how the unibody mbp were introduced.

the mb white, was a different case, since it was an entry line product for the apple ecosystem, and top that it was the educational product.

And no the mbp didnt see a refresh, only the rmbp.

Also Im with dusk on this one, it really doesnt matter the tdp to power consumption, as it was proved in the other thread (5w+ isnt in any way or particular form a negligible difference)

and yes that notebook has optimus, so the draw is pretty negligible on the gpu side of things.

and btw I dont think you realise, that paper that you linked actually said what I said, is for servers, the intel xeon products, the binning on those products is way higher than on consumer lvl products, including LGA 2011

In the end I expect that those improvements are applied across the line up, otherwise we wouldnt see the improvement that was clarksfield to sandy bridge

 

[bill-p]

When Apple released the last version of the MBA, in June 2012, nearly all ultrabooks had specifications that were inferior or, at best, similar to it. The only one that stood out in the crowd was probably the Asus Zenbook Prime, because it featured an IPS screen with a 1920x1080 resolution. But putting a 1080p screen on the MBA is probably not the way Apple wants to do it; it will likely get a retina display sometime, and it was probably not yet for prime time back in June 2012.

Now, as of 2013, there are several ultrabooks which match or even surpass the MBA. Let's see what Apple will do.

There were other Ultrabooks revealed in 2012 with features that exceeded the MacBook Air as well. Check the Acer Aspire S7, or Samsung Series 7.

I don't think so.

The old line didn't get a refresh in February. The higher-end 15" cMBP was discontinued but, apart from that, I only saw (minor) changes in the rMBP models. Did I lose something?

Yeah, you're right. The old line didn't get an upgrade. But if Apple is discontinuing them, it would be next year, not this year.

Also to note, the higher-end 15" cMBP is now built-to-order. It's not like it was completely taken away.

I don't know. Perhaps Apple feels that it should have a 15" option for those who can't afford paying US$ 2,199 for the rMBP. And perhaps it plans to discontinue the cMPB when it is able and/or willing to drop the prices of the rMBP. But, again, this is just a guess, and it's no better than yours. Apple's product launch strategies seem to me a bit confusing (to say the least) as of late. It's not following the pattern of the previous years.

I'm sure it's following the pattern just fine. At least for the Mac side.

The only confusing part was when they upgraded the internals of the iPad last year.

If I had to look at each of these facts in an isolated manner, I would agree with you. But it seems too much for me to swallow.

The ad change for the iPhone 5 is clearly towards the Galaxy S4, no doubt about it. It took the front page of Apple's website just as Samsung was unveiling its new top smartphone.

Revisit the page next week or next month and you'll see them advertising an iPad or Mac or iPod... that takes up the entire front page.

It's just the usual marketing. I think you're reading way too much into it.

And the price of the MBA was dropped. The current design for the MBA was announced n October 2010. The prices were US$ 999 and US$ 1,199 for the 11"; and US$ 1,299 and US$ 1,599 for the 13". Now, the prices are US$ 999 and US$ 1,099 for the 11"; and US$ 1,199 and US$ 1,399 for the 13". There were price drops, and the last one was in February 2012, when the top range MBA dropped from US$ 1,499 to US$ 1,399.

The MacBook Air prices were adjusted due to the price drop of the 13" Retina. Like I said, it makes no sense to have the MacBook Air the same price as a 13" Retina when the 13" Retina has superior specs in every conceivable way.

Yes, it was less than 3 years ago. But when the ULV Haswell processors are launched, 3 years would have passed already. The 1st gen MBA was redesigned in late 2010, about 2 years and a half following its original release, so a new redesign after 3 years is OK.

The MBP was redesigned after almost 4 years, but that doesn't happen with all the products. The iMac was redesigned in late 2012, after 3 years.

I don't see an iMac redesign in 2009. The iMac got a new screen size, but the aluminum design had been around since 2007... If anything, it means Apple didn't refresh the iMac design for 5 years.

Also if a new MacBook Air redesign was in place, we would hear about it by now. It's not like Apple can mass produce a huge amount of new aluminum bodies for the MacBook Air without someone slipping a bit of details to gossipers.

That's for sure. But the 15" rMBP was much higher on Amazon.com rankings a few months ago.

Because it made sense for some people to purchase it on Amazon back then.

It makes less sense now since Apple.com has already started selling refurbished 15" Retina for $200 discount. Look at Retina prices on Amazon, and then look at Apple's refurbished section and you'll see.

In contrast, the 13" Retina got its $1499 discount on Amazon first, and unsurprisingly, it's one of the better selling ones on the charts.

Pricing plays into it heavily, obviously.

Because the 15" rMBP is the only product of its type in the market today. No other laptop compares to it. I'm not saying the 15" rMBP is not selling well. It probably is selling well, especially if you consider that it's an expensive product. I'm just saying that it is probably one of the worst-selling Mac laptops, and that its sales have probably declined since launch.

You're basing that on one online source that's known to have fluctuating prices that affect product rankings. I wouldn't place too much bread there if I were you.

No, I'm not. Please don't take it to the personal level. I'm just looking at what I think it will be a trend. I may turn out to be wrong. I just don't care if Apple drops the price of the 15" rMBP or not, I'm not buying it anyway. I could also say that you are wishing that Apple doesn't drop the price of the 15" rMBP, so you can justify your investment in buying one after release. But I won't say that, and I wish you are not doing it, as it might bias your conclusions. Let's not take things personally. If you do take things this way, then I feel it won't be worth discussing it anymore.

I'm not taking it to the personal level, but your guesses are veering too far into unknown territory. You're basing it all on one online source as your reason for a 15" price drop. I don't think that's enough evidence. So the only conclusion I can come up with for your strong argument is that you're wishing for a price drop. No offense intended, of course.

And of course I'd be biased. These are my personal opinions after all. I haven't seen anyone who can offer his personal opinions without being biased.

With that said, I won't blame you if you'd like to believe that I love my 15" investment so much that I have to spend hours on an online discussion board to defend it. No, really. I'm not being sarcastic. That's also a logical conclusion to come to.

But I think it's the end result that's important. I actually could care less if I turn out to be wrong on every count... because at the end of the day, it's what Apple actually pushes out that matters, right?

And I honestly believe Apple won't drop the price of the 15". Not because I love my computer, but because there isn't much of a reason for them to.

If Apple drops the 15" cMBP, which I think it plans to do, there will not be anything between them.

I'm sure the 15" cMBP will be dropped. It's just a matter of when. And seeing as Apple typically allows a one-year cushioning period for old users, I don't see this happening this year. Maybe next year?

When Apple released the 13" rMBP, there were still laptops in a lower price range (the cMBP and the MBA). If you look at Apple's portfolio, there are options of products for every price you wish to pay.

Yeah. But even without the 15" cMBP, there are still the BTO options that fill in those gaps.

and btw I dont think you realise, that paper that you linked actually said what I said, is for servers, the intel xeon products, the binning on those products is way higher than on consumer lvl products, including LGA 2011

In the end I expect that those improvements are applied across the line up, otherwise we wouldnt see the improvement that was clarksfield to sandy bridge

I'm not sure if you're trying to address me, but the point is not that TDP is an "exact" measurement of power consumption. The point is that TDP is just a rough measurement of power consumption. And the actual relevant point is that processors in the same TDP package should consume about the same amount of power.

Case in point, read this article. It's old, but it should apply the same unless Intel has redefined TDP once again.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article169-page3.html

 

[B...]

BillP, there was an iMac redesign in 2009. They made the iMac unibody aluminum and added edge to edge glass. This, while not as big a difference as from 2011-2012, still counts as a redesign (to me).

 

[bill-p]

BillP, there was an iMac redesign in 2009. They made the iMac unibody aluminum and added edge to edge glass. This, while not as big a difference as from 2011-2012, still counts as a redesign (to me).

I think the edge-to-edge glass was the only change. The 2007 lineup was the one that came with the unibody aluminum design. I know that because I still have a 2007 aluminum iMac in my house. It's a unibody one alright.

I'm not sure that's a "redesign" then. It seems more like a design tweak.

By that standard, the thicker 13" rMBP is also a redesign from the 15" rMBP.

Or another example: adding the backlight to the MacBook Air 2011 lineup was also a redesign.

 

[B...]

I have the early 2009 iMac base model, 20". It has a black back. NOT unibody. The late 2009 models have an aluminum back. YES unibody.

 

[mobi]

Delayed 17" rMBP released, fingers crossed...

 

[bill-p]

I have the early 2009 iMac base model, 20". It has a black back. NOT unibody. The late 2009 models have an aluminum back. YES unibody.

So the aluminum back and edge-to-edge glass constitute as a redesign?

I'm still not seeing how it's a redesign, seeing as the overall look and feel of the computer remains the same. But if you insist.

By that standard, like I said, the thicker 13" rMBP is also a redesign.

And the backlight of the MBA 2011 line should also be a redesign.

If and when Apple updates the 15" rMBP with that rumored cooling tweak, it'll also be a redesign.

And then Apple would have moved to a random redesign schedule years ago.

In fact, disregarding those silly hardware tweaks, I'd say... 2007 to 2009 was only 2 years for a redesign.

 

[B...]

I was just saying that there was a major update to the system in 2009. Changing screen size is pretty major. So is changing how the product looks externally. Upping the storage internally and new processors as well. Pretty major update constitutes a redesign for ME. MBA 2010 changed externally--redesign. It is all opinion though.

 

[Mr MM]

Bill P your inability to read what you link is baffling

Thermal Design Power (TDP) should be used for processor thermal solution design targets. The TDP is not the maximum power that the processor can dissipate

now compare to what you linked me on the other thread.

Intel is listing TDP numbers that are significantly lower than the actual maximum power draw of their CPUs. They are then relying on the fact that most applications barely use the CPU, assuming that it will remain idle most of the time. In the case that an application does max out the CPU for any period of time, Intel relies on their “Thermal Monitor” to automatically slow down the CPU when it becomes too hot to protect it from overheating.

and there is this

really, 5w+ is not negligible.

 

[koyoot]

After looking through the specs for AMD's new 8000M GPUs I'm thinking that we may see an AMD 8700M series GPU in the next gen 15" rMBP

From my point of view - Radeon HD 8790M will be slower than GT650M, especially compared to OC'ed version in Retina MBP.

At least - Radeon HD8850M will be a "step up" in case of performance per watt for Pro lineup.

In Fact, 8870M went into Samsung Chronos 7 - laptops that "copy" the specs from Macbooks.

Another thing, AMD have cut the TDP on this card a bit, by lowering the chips clock a bit, and upping the Memory clocks, which boosted a little overall performance, and lowered power consumption and temperature.

people say that there are Readeon 7000 drivers in OSX 10.8.3. Maybe its because Sapphire released the 7950 card for Mac Pro...?

But most probable is that we will see a Nvidia GPU in next MBP.

 

[Stetrain]

From my point of view - Radeon HD 8790M will be slower than GT650M, especially compared to OC'ed version in Retina MBP.

At least - Radeon HD8850M will be a "step up" in case of performance per watt for Pro lineup.

In Fact, 8870M went into Samsung Chronos 7 - laptops that "copy" the specs from Macbooks.

Another thing, AMD have cut the TDP on this card a bit, by lowering the chips clock a bit, and upping the Memory clocks, which boosted a little overall performance, and lowered power consumption and temperature.

people say that there are Readeon 7000 drivers in OSX 10.8.3. Maybe its because Sapphire released the 7950 card for Mac Pro...?

But most probable is that we will see a Nvidia GPU in next MBP.

As far as I know the NVidia GPUs being released this spring are just rebadges of the previous series, so going with NVidia again would result in basically no performance per watt increase. It's possible but it doesn't seem like a great move.

It's hard to judge on the 8000M series GPUs since there are no TDP numbers yet, but I agree that the 8850M may work given that the 8870M has shown up in similar form factors.

New Apple hardware generally gets its own build of OSX with all of the new drivers included, so the fact that we haven't seen an 8000M series driver yet doesn't really mean much.

 

[bill-p]

Bill P your inability to read what you link is baffling

Well, I give up. Believe what you will.

I'll just wait until there are more Haswell benchmarks before engaging in any of these discussions again. It's taking up too much time.

 

[Mr MM]

As far as I know the NVidia GPUs being released this spring are just rebadges of the previous series, so going with NVidia again would result in basically no performance per watt increase. It's possible but it doesn't seem like a great move.

It's hard to judge on the 8000M series GPUs since there are no TDP numbers yet, but I agree that the 8850M may work given that the 8870M has shown up in similar form factors.

New Apple hardware generally gets its own build of OSX with all of the new drivers included, so the fact that we haven't seen an 8000M series driver yet doesn't really mean much.

well we dont need the numbers, its a simple rebadge and fiddle with clocks

m4000 http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/1677/.html

m6000 http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/1678/.html

the first is the 7750m, thought that gpu is being substituted this year, by a 384 core new gpu

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6571/amd-releases-full-product-specifications-for-radeon-8000m-series

the 2nd is the 7850m, its 43w, 650m 45w

Bill-p its not taking my time, you can present me with more things saying that what Im telling you is right, I can read pretty fast, otherwise I wouldnt be in my 3rd uni degree

 

[skaertus]

There were other Ultrabooks revealed in 2012 with features that exceeded the MacBook Air as well. Check the Acer Aspire S7, or Samsung Series 7.

Yes, there were. But, correct me if I am wrong, but these ultrabooks were only unveiled after the release of the MBA in June. The Acer Aspire S7 and the Samsung Series 7 were released later in the year. At the time the MBA was released, I think the only available option was the Zenbook Prime.

Yeah, you're right. The old line didn't get an upgrade. But if Apple is discontinuing them, it would be next year, not this year.

It's a possibility, but my bet is that Apple will discontinue it this year.

Also to note, the higher-end 15" cMBP is now built-to-order. It's not like it was completely taken away.

Yes, that's right. It's not standard, but you can build an option that meets the specifications of the discontinued model.

I'm sure it's following the pattern just fine. At least for the Mac side.

I don't know. I wouldn't say it is a pattern. Looks like more a lack of pattern to me.

The only confusing part was when they upgraded the internals of the iPad last year.

That was confusing. The refresh of the rMBP line in February was weird as well.

Revisit the page next week or next month and you'll see them advertising an iPad or Mac or iPod... that takes up the entire front page.

It's just the usual marketing. I think you're reading way too much into it.

With a new ad? Don't think so. But I'll wait to see...

The MacBook Air prices were adjusted due to the price drop of the 13" Retina. Like I said, it makes no sense to have the MacBook Air the same price as a 13" Retina when the 13" Retina has superior specs in every conceivable way.

In either way - the price drops of MBA and the rMBP - the reason may well be competition from ultrabooks.

I don't see an iMac redesign in 2009. The iMac got a new screen size, but the aluminum design had been around since 2007... If anything, it means Apple didn't refresh the iMac design for 5 years.

No, I don't think so. It was a redesing in 2009. It was a new body, a unibody aluminium with different screen sizes and different internals. The previous one was just aluminium.

Also if a new MacBook Air redesign was in place, we would hear about it by now. It's not like Apple can mass produce a huge amount of new aluminum bodies for the MacBook Air without someone slipping a bit of details to gossipers.

There have been some rumors, but very little so far. Last year, rumors about the rMBP began in April (I think), and the actual product release was in June. This year, if Apple plans to release an all-new MBA in Q3/Q4, then there is still time for rumors to emerge.

Because it made sense for some people to purchase it on Amazon back then.

It makes less sense now since Apple.com has already started selling refurbished 15" Retina for $200 discount. Look at Retina prices on Amazon, and then look at Apple's refurbished section and you'll see.

Yes, it is true that Apple has a refurbished section right now. But 13" rMBP may also be cannibalizing some 15" rMBP sales. I don't have the sales numbers, as Apple will not disclose them, so, just like you, I am speculating.

In contrast, the 13" Retina got its $1499 discount on Amazon first, and unsurprisingly, it's one of the better selling ones on the charts.

Pricing plays into it heavily, obviously.

Yes, that's for sure.

That's why I think the 15" rMBP is a good seller. The price point of US$ 2,199 will avoid making it a mass-market product. But it is selling very well for a product this price.

You're basing that on one online source that's known to have fluctuating prices that affect product rankings. I wouldn't place too much bread there if I were you.

I know that. But it's the best source I've got, because it's a store that sells huge amounts of products, and it has a ranking. Is there any other sources available?

I'm not taking it to the personal level, but your guesses are veering too far into unknown territory. You're basing it all on one online source as your reason for a 15" price drop. I don't think that's enough evidence. So the only conclusion I can come up with for your strong argument is that you're wishing for a price drop. No offense intended, of course.

Yes, but it's the only source, the only piece of evidence, that I've found. Had I other sources, then I would be happy to consider them...

And of course I'd be biased. These are my personal opinions after all. I haven't seen anyone who can offer his personal opinions without being biased.

With that said, I won't blame you if you'd like to believe that I love my 15" investment so much that I have to spend hours on an online discussion board to defend it. No, really. I'm not being sarcastic. That's also a logical conclusion to come to.

But I think it's the end result that's important. I actually could care less if I turn out to be wrong on every count... because at the end of the day, it's what Apple actually pushes out that matters, right?

And I honestly believe Apple won't drop the price of the 15". Not because I love my computer, but because there isn't much of a reason for them to.

I personally think you've made a great investment in the 15" rMBP. You've paid a high price, but you've also got the best laptop in the world, and which is still the best laptop in the world nine months after its release.

Now, the technology will eventually get cheaper and more widely available. In fact, it has become. I think Apple will discontinue the cMBP and drop the price of the 15" rMBP so it replaces the cMBP. I just think it makes business sense.

In addition, it won't hurt Apple to have the 15" rMBP at a lower price point, given that there will be Windows laptops with the same screen resolution. Apple has priced the 13" rMBP very aggressively - at US$ 1,499, it is a bargain compared to the Google Chromebook Pixel, the Acer Aspire S7, the Lenovo ThinkPad Helix, the Samsung Series 9, and other models. I don't know if it will do the same with the 15" model, although I have a guess that it may do it.

But of course I know nothing of Apple's numbers and projections, so I really can't say if it will happen or not. Apple may choose to keep the cMBP intact and release one more generation of rMBP at the same price point it currently is.

I'm sure the 15" cMBP will be dropped. It's just a matter of when. And seeing as Apple typically allows a one-year cushioning period for old users, I don't see this happening this year. Maybe next year?

Users already had a one-year period to adapt to the new version. It is a little bit awkward for Apple to have a 13" laptop with a resolution of 1280x800 and a 15" laptop with a resolution of 1440x900 in 2013... there are crappy PCs with better resolutions, and it's time for these laptops to be retired.

Yeah. But even without the 15" cMBP, there are still the BTO options that fill in those gaps.

There is. But not everybody buys them. They're not ready for shipping.

I'm not sure if you're trying to address me, but the point is not that TDP is an "exact" measurement of power consumption. The point is that TDP is just a rough measurement of power consumption. And the actual relevant point is that processors in the same TDP package should consume about the same amount of power.

Case in point, read this article. It's old, but it should apply the same unless Intel has redefined TDP once again.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article169-page3.html

Thanks, I'll take a look.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Non Retina MBP gets a redesign

$1199 13" - Superdrive is gone. HDD remains but with Fusion Drive option for additional $150. There is no step up non Retina model. 4 Lbs

$1499 Retina MBP 13 - 256GB SSD standard w/upgrades to 512/768. CPU upgrades to Quad Core for $199. No dGPU.

$1799 15" non Retina - no Superdrive, Fusion Drive option. No hero product upgrade. 5 Lbs.

$1999 15" Retina - 256GB standard. Hero product 512GB standard SSD. Faster dGPU with 2GB option/upgrade.

All new Macs offer new 11ac Wifi and faster SSD (500MBps ). All display, whether non Retina or not are laminated)

 

[Mr MM]

Non Retina MBP gets a redesign

$1199 13" - Superdrive is gone. HDD remains but with Fusion Drive option for additional $150. There is no step up non Retina model. 4 Lbs

$1499 Retina MBP 13 - 256GB SSD standard w/upgrades to 512/768. CPU upgrades to Quad Core for $199. No dGPU.

$1799 15" non Retina - no Superdrive, Fusion Drive option. No hero product upgrade. 5 Lbs.

$1999 15" Retina - 256GB standard. Hero product 512GB standard SSD. Faster dGPU with 2GB option/upgrade.

All new Macs offer new 11ac Wifi and faster SSD (500MBps ). All display, whether non Retina or not are laminated)

that doesnt make sense at all.

You have to understand that apple was only complicated in terms of parts when you went with the mba line, where you will see 4 different mobos for each model, add to that the rmbp 15 are 6 mobos (12 if you add to the fact that there is still stock from the mid 2012 model) and the 13 are 2. This adds to the cost, since stock is dead money.

I see that they are going to shrink to what was before retina, and without the mbp 17

2 models for each product, base and high end. Its simple its clean and it solves issues.

What they may do to alleviate entry cost is to simply remove the SSD from the rmbp 13, and just keep that format to the 15 and the airs.

Other possible change would be to go directly for the NGFF, so that they can get the SSD at better prices, since its a standard now, albeit very new, there is a good possibility of it coming true

Also it doesnt really matter, tdp is not power consumption, its not also a good indicator, what is interesting is the new P-state, and we dont know how to guess at that.

Important changes would be in the chipset, while the cpu itself support 16 lanes of pcie 3.0, I want the chipset to support more than 8 lanes of pcie 2.0. And that the added bandwidth go to thunderbolt, I dont think this will happen this year though.

Skaertus, I would disregard that link, the info is so outdated that it doesnt matter anymore, no one uses that kind of measurement. While intel may still skirt the lines with turboboost, it rarely goes over the designed TDP, the power consumption yes, it can go. You can on the other hand be delighted with this one that Bill posted in the other thread about the debacle that AMD started when they push forward ACP

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/doc/white-paper/resources-xeon-measuring-processor-power-paper.pdf

One thing that I dig out, while looking for more info on TDP is this:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1183742/

that thread actually links the silent pc review article from 2004, to show that intel didnt specify that well how it worked its tdp ratings at the time, not interesting is to note that intel lost the race in power and went for broke (and got some teeth pulled out when it hit the floor) with a design that it wouldnt pursue similarly again for several years.

for people that may have forgot what those weird names are

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/quickrefyr.htm#2004

it was pentium 4, their most ''cool'' cpu since atom with coolwhip

notable posts are 8, 15 , 16
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4205/the-macbook-pro-review-13-and-15-inch-2011-brings-sandy-bridge/14

with that interesting link from anandtech, 54w underload by playing half life 2, thats way too close to the 60w of the psu itself

Misconceptions apart, here is some new line up that leaked today

Intel desktop and mobile CPU roadmap for 2014



View attachment 93865

we gotta confirm whats in what and how its going to roll in terms of release dates, but quads are early as it seems and the ulv and sv dual cores are coming afterwards till june 7

 

[Mago]

My opinion:

Crawling Peg Upgrade its the Apple's way for new product, specially when is something new and succeful.

So we coud spect same CPU clock as first gen rMBP (late 2012, not e2013) but on Haswell core.

I foresee very likely a quad core option for rMBP 13, thats the reason for intel to produce the lower TDP Cuad Core i7, but maybe not available at July, maybe as Early 2014 model.

SSD Storage, 256 as STD for 13"models, and 512 STD for 15", Flash Chip dropped near to half since rMBP was launched, 256GB is not enough for most 15"pro users (it's well known, also like me) so is very likely, of course Faster SSD interace too.

I read some where that the late 2013 Retina Mac will drop HDMI port in favor of two USB 3 ports (or 1 USB3/1 Tblt), and add some other redesigns in order to deal better with CPU/GPU Heat.

Graphics: 13" models Will keep integrated graphics as the only option, 15" will offer new card, 1TFlop capable (maybe ATI), with matched memory bus to Hasswell Architecutre, will reduce Power and increase Top Speed Processing and open the Door to 4K2K video output (HDMI 1.4 maybe included if no changes on chasis as I read before).


Price... 13"models may keep current prices, but 15"may Up 100$ to 2100 for base Model rMBP15 (8GB Ram/ 512GB SSD) but as soon as Early 2014 models are launched price may return to current scheme (2000$ for base rMBP15).