Speculation: New Display

cflem

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 11, 2011
151
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Texas
With the awesome wireless screen sharing/extension abilities in Mavericks and AppleTV - I bet you a buffalo nickel that the exact technology will be built into the next thunderbolt display to allow for quick wireless connections... will have wired too - but how cool will it be to have a wireless option too?

just makes sense.
 

Julien

macrumors G4
Jun 30, 2007
11,162
3,889
Atlanta
...the next thunderbolt display to allow for quick wireless connections... will have wired too - but how cool will it be to have a wireless option too?

just makes sense.
If it's wireless than it won't be Thunderbolt.:D There is a wireless HDMI spec (a couple) but limited to 1080. Of course there is NO way to pass 20Gbps up and 20GBPS down (40Gbps data rate) wirelessly. Someone smarter could calculate but that would require a ton of radio spectrum that is not available.

Also Intel has made no such spec or announcement.
 
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meistervu

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2008
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Plus, the TB connection does more than display data: Gigabit Ethernet, external storage, sound, and most of all charging power for the laptop. It just doesn't make any sense to make it a wireless display.
 

portishead

macrumors 65816
Apr 4, 2007
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los angeles
If it's wireless than it won't be Thunderbolt.:D There is a wireless HDMI spec (a couple) but limited to 1080. Of course there is NO way to pass 20Gbps up and 20GBPS down (40Gbps data rate) wirelessly. Someone smarter could calculate but that would require a ton of radio spectrum that is not available.

Also Intel has made no such spec or announcement.
Not to be picky, but there is no such thing as wireless HDMI, as HDMI doesn't have a wireless spec. It is simply a wireless transmitter/receiver that has HDMI inputs/outputs.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_HDMI

The bandwidth for these is lower than the HDMI spec, so your signal is being compressed and you are not getting the full data. This can cause dropped frames, lag, etc. Not saying it will, but it is possible. Wireless displays are just not feasible right now.
 

cflem

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 11, 2011
151
52
Texas
Thunderbolt and wireless

Guys... I know what the thunderbolt connection gives... But what if it did both that and airplay?

Interesting thought.

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Not to be picky, but there is no such thing as wireless HDMI, as HDMI doesn't have a wireless spec. It is simply a wireless transmitter/receiver that has HDMI inputs/outputs.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_HDMI

The bandwidth for these is lower than the HDMI spec, so your signal is being compressed and you are not getting the full data. This can cause dropped frames, lag, etc. Not saying it will, but it is possible. Wireless displays are just not feasible right now.
AppleTV and Mavericks makes a pretty amazing wireless display... They are feasible and happening.
 

Julien

macrumors G4
Jun 30, 2007
11,162
3,889
Atlanta
Guys... I know what the thunderbolt connection gives... But what if it did both that and airplay?...

AppleTV and Mavericks makes a pretty amazing wireless display... They are feasible and happening.
Not a chance in hell. First the HDMI (MPEG HD) video signal can be easily compressed because it uses the YCrCb color space and compression forgiving video. Computers use RGB color space plus no pro and most consumers would not put up with compression artifacts on a PC just to have wireless. Add to that 1080 HD is 2,073,600 pixels while WQHD is 3,686,400 pixels. The bandwidth required would be several times what is needed for 1080 YCrCb.
 

cflem

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 11, 2011
151
52
Texas
But its already happening...

Not a chance in hell. First the HDMI (MPEG HD) video signal can be easily compressed because it uses the YCrCb color space and compression forgiving video. Computers use RGB color space plus no pro and most consumers would not put up with compression artifacts on a PC just to have wireless. Add to that 1080 HD is 2,073,600 pixels while WQHD is 3,686,400 pixels. The bandwidth required would be several times what is needed for 1080 YCrCb.
Did you WATCH the keynote? AppleTV is now a full fledged second monitor under Mavericks.

???
 

Julien

macrumors G4
Jun 30, 2007
11,162
3,889
Atlanta
Yes I watched the Keynote. If you want to believe the next Apple display may be wireless (against all odds and practicality) you may.....but understand.

The ATV Airplay feature is a lower quality 2ed screen, laid back, 10' casual experience limited to 1920x1080 highly compressed.

There are 2 main reasons the next display will not be wireless.

1) Technical and quality limitations (previously discussed)

2) Apple has a "ton" of effort invested in Thunderbolt and isn't about to abandon it (and all the extras like USB3 and Ethernet) just to offer a wireless display that would alienate the pro market (and many users).
 

brand

macrumors 601
Oct 3, 2006
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127.0.0.1
Plus, the TB connection does more than display data: Gigabit Ethernet, external storage, sound, and most of all charging power for the laptop.
Might want to recheck your facts because most of all the ThunderBolt port does not provide power for charging MacBook, MacBook Pro, or MacBook Air computers.
 

meistervu

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2008
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Might want to recheck your facts because most of all the ThunderBolt port does not provide power for charging MacBook, MacBook Pro, or MacBook Air computers.
You are right:

http://www.apple.com/displays/

Quoting the relevant bit:

"The Thunderbolt Display includes a MagSafe connector that powers and charges your MacBook Pro or MacBook Air. The connector sits on your desk, ready and waiting. No need to unwind the cord to the power adapter that came with your notebook. Leave it exactly where it is, in your bag"

I misread it the first time, but it turned out they just bundle the TB and power cable together.
 

Julien

macrumors G4
Jun 30, 2007
11,162
3,889
Atlanta
Did you WATCH the keynote? AppleTV is now a full fledged second monitor under Mavericks.

???
Forgot I had a video calculator. Here are some rough calculations that will illustrate the hurdles involved.

To pass AirPlay HD video requires about 600Mbps before Apple adds even more compression.

To pass QHD RGB 10 bit requires about 6,500Mbps (can't be compressed for pros or testing comparisons).

That is almost 11x the data (not counting the extra compression Apple adds).

Also Apple could be moving to UHD (aka: 4K) and that ups it to about 12,000Mbps
 
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