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IMB

I have a friend who works for IBM. He knew about the switch weeks before the anouncment. He was really suprised to read the Apple PR on it, because IMB blamed it all on apple - at least that is how it was presented to him.

Thought I'd share that to back up the article.
 
youngjake said:
I have a friend who works for IBM. He knew about the switch weeks before the anouncment. He was really suprised to read the Apple PR on it, because IMB blamed it all on apple - at least that is how it was presented to him.

Thought I'd share that to back up the article.

That raises the question again - who actually promised the 3 GHz, Apple or IBM? Did Jobs, with his usual aggressive ego, boldly proclaim 3 GHz, and IBM simply couldn't meet it due to the entire processor industry hitting the wall? Or did IBM promise it to Jobs and failed to deliver? There are always two sides to every story... ;)
 
If Apple was happy and satisfied with just a 1-3% marketshare they wouldn't take this risk and would stay with IBM/Freescale... At least thats what I think...

I didn't say they were happy with 1-3%, I said they didn't want more than about 5% marketshare. When their userbase becomes to large it becomes much less agile. Their ability to through backwards compatibility and support to the wind would hurt them much more if they had more marketshare.

Anyway, maybe Intel needs Apple more than we might think, right now Intel has a company that is not afraid of taking huge leaps (totally different technologies/architectures) and they have their own OS...

And how does that help Intel? Microsoft has supported virtually every architecture that Intel makes. Apple's tendency to take huge leaps doesn't help them sell more machines. All it does is stress out their developers and user base. In terms of desktop computing, Apple is a very small player for Intel. I'm sure Intel loves to have an extra 4-5 million sales per year (from having Apple on board) but I don't see how that is really all that big a deal to them. It's a much bigger deal to Apple though.

I think Intel colaboration with Apple was pretty much a slap at MS face as MS has been lately more AMD friendly as well as they went with PowerPC for their consoles...

???
Intel supporting Apple doesn't take away from Intel's support and relationship with Microsoft at all. I'm sure Intel knew their X86 proc in the Xbox was just a stop gap. It was only there because MS needed to get the Xbox on the market quickly. Intel choose not to make a specialized chip (like the one in all other consoles) so I doubt they had any delusions about Microsoft picking an Intel proc for the Xbox 360. X86 procs are simply to expensive when compared to specialized chips.

And from what I understand, MS and Intel actually don't like each other too much,
??? Why would you think that? Microsoft and Intel have made each other a ton of money and they continue to do so. Every architecture Intel makes is supported by Microsoft. Intel made the Xscale to compete in the portable/phone market and Microsoft fully supports it with Windows Mobile. Intel makes the Itanium, P4, and Xeon and Microsoft fully supports them all. Microsoft is almost soley responsible for the Intel/Dell relationship. Without the MS OS and platform Intel wouldn't design it's own motherboards, chipsets, audio, etc. Microsoft has been very good to Intel and vise-versa. I think it's just wishful thinking on the part of the Mac community to think that MS and Intel (or MS and any PC maker) hate each other and hate relying on each other for business. Intel time and time again goes to Microsoft for support. In fact, the video store that started this thread is sponsored by Intel and uses Windows Media technology. As has been previously stated, Microsoft and Intel are working on all sorts of chip designs and DRM solutions together.

People think that G5 (or any other PowerPC used by Apple) was designed solely by IBM/Freescale on Apples request and all I can say is that Apple has a greater processor R&D team than people think, but manufacturing processors in mass quantities is another story...

I'm doubting how much this will make a difference. Apple wants to sell high-margin products to a small dedicated user base. Because their user base is small and Apple does things to keep it small, it makes no sense for Intel to develop special designs for Apple. That's exactly what IBM and Motorola said too.

I bet the reason for the switchover isn't because IBM could produce the 3ghz chips or laptop chips but because those chips were based off the designs they were giving to Sony, Nintendo (and to a lesser extent) Microsoft instead of being designed specifically for desktop computing. After reading the anand article and a few others, it looks like those chips are very good for desktop/personal computer use. If IBM told Apple that those were the only chips they were willing to make for Apple (as in no custom designs) and it was a take it or leave it offer, then of course Apple would leave.
 
BGil said:
If Apple was happy and satisfied with just a 1-3% marketshare they wouldn't take this risk and would stay with IBM/Freescale... At least thats what I think...

I didn't say they were happy with 1-3%, I said they didn't want more than about 5% marketshare. When their userbase becomes to large it becomes much less agile. Their ability to through backwards compatibility and support to the wind would hurt them much more if they had more marketshare.



And how does that help Intel? Microsoft has supported virtually every architecture that Intel makes. Apple's tendency to take huge leaps doesn't help them sell more machines. All it does is stress out their developers and user base. In terms of desktop computing, Apple is a very small player for Intel. I'm sure Intel loves to have an extra 4-5 million sales per year (from having Apple on board) but I don't see how that is really all that big a deal to them. It's a much bigger deal to Apple though.



???
Intel supporting Apple doesn't take away from Intel's support and relationship with Microsoft at all. I'm sure Intel knew their X86 proc in the Xbox was just a stop gap. It was only there because MS needed to get the Xbox on the market quickly. Intel choose not to make a specialized chip (like the one in all other consoles) so I doubt they had any delusions about Microsoft picking an Intel proc for the Xbox 360. X86 procs are simply to expensive when compared to specialized chips.


??? Why would you think that? Microsoft and Intel have made each other a ton of money and they continue to do so. Every architecture Intel makes is supported by Microsoft. Intel made the Xscale to compete in the portable/phone market and Microsoft fully supports it with Windows Mobile. Intel makes the Itanium, P4, and Xeon and Microsoft fully supports them all. Microsoft is almost soley responsible for the Intel/Dell relationship. Without the MS OS and platform Intel wouldn't design it's own motherboards, chipsets, audio, etc. Microsoft has been very good to Intel and vise-versa. I think it's just wishful thinking on the part of the Mac community to think that MS and Intel (or MS and any PC maker) hate each other and hate relying on each other for business. Intel time and time again goes to Microsoft for support. In fact, the video store that started this thread is sponsored by Intel and uses Windows Media technology. As has been previously stated, Microsoft and Intel are working on all sorts of chip designs and DRM solutions together.



I'm doubting how much this will make a difference. Apple wants to sell high-margin products to a small dedicated user base. Because their user base is small and Apple does things to keep it small, it makes no sense for Intel to develop special designs for Apple. That's exactly what IBM and Motorola said too.

I bet the reason for the switchover isn't because IBM could produce the 3ghz chips or laptop chips but because those chips were based off the designs they were giving to Sony, Nintendo (and to a lesser extent) Microsoft instead of being designed specifically for desktop computing. After reading the anand article and a few others, it looks like those chips are very good for desktop/personal computer use. If IBM told Apple that those were the only chips they were willing to make for Apple (as in no custom designs) and it was a take it or leave it offer, then of course Apple would leave.


Well the object of each comapny is to make as much money as possible for the cheapest cost as possible, it also means expanding and becoming a larger company/corporation. Why stop at 5% user base when you can get 6,7,8 and so on %. Basically there is no limit.

I understand that if Apple would grow too large their backwards compatibility and support would lag but then again Apple already is one of the fastest growing PC makers in US, add to that the success of the iPod and financially they were doing really fine without Intel.

I work for one company and cooperate with another simply because they are the only one that offers a certain product but that doesn't mean I like to deal with them. It's nice to have options (Steve Jobs words), MS might have supported Intel throughout but MS eversince Windows 95 became just a marketing company swallowing little software houses one by one (Yes i know Pentium 4 and its GHZ was a marketing campaign also but in all reality Pentium 4 was definately a better product than Windows OS)...

From all my readings I understand that Intel is more than willing to move past x86 architecture (Itanium was their attemp at that, a bad attempt but at least they tried)... With Apple they have someone that is willing to experiment together and besides, its never good for one company to be totally dependent on another, as it goes for Intel and MS...

Apple is definately a whole lot more creative company, it may sound naive but maybe just maybe Intel also wants to innovate (and is not so in love with dollars) but the PC industry is too standardized to really innovate, make huge leaps...
 
How's a video iPod going to help me...

...when it's tucked in my coat pocket or zipped up in my bag when I'm riding on the subway? Who keeps their iPods out consistently while they're using them? Isn't that just asking for it to be snatched?
 
j-a-x said:
I don't want a video iPod. I listen to music every day when I walk to school using my iPod, but I wouldn't watch movies on it, even if I could.

I use my powerbook to watch movies when I'm traveling.

I use my iPod to store music and play it wirelessly to my stereo with my airport express/iTunes, but somehow I don't see myself doing this with video any time soon.

I'd personally rather have a cheaper, smaller, higher capacity iPod than a video pod. I wish they would give the original iPod some new features like the ability to play music wirelessly to an airport express without the need for a computer and iTunes. Now that would be cool.


I think that Apple should make the Ipod "wireless" enabled with Bluetooth or Airport type WiFi. :) That way you would need a dock or docking cable to transfer music or photos to the Ipod. :D They may be able to do something like that with the Ipod Shuffle too. I don't know, and surely they would have to make these new Ipods compatible with Airport Express.
 
Well the object of each comapny is to make as much money as possible for the cheapest cost as possible, it also means expanding and becoming a larger company/corporation. Why stop at 5% user base when you can get 6,7,8 and so on %. Basically there is no limit.

I understand that if Apple would grow too large their backwards compatibility and support would lag but then again Apple already is one of the fastest growing PC makers in US, add to that the success of the iPod and financially they were doing really fine without Intel.

In all reality, Apple's computer business is only gaining marketshare because the second quarter is a very slow quarter for Windows based PC sales and Apple now sells the Mac Mini, which is in a price range they have never entered before. If All of Apple's computers were seeing a large increase in sales then I could buy the "fastest growing" stuff -- because it's basically only the Mini driving new Mac sales it's fair to say that this "growth" won't be sustained into next year.

I work for one company and cooperate with another simply because they are the only one that offers a certain product but that doesn't mean I like to deal with them. It's nice to have options (Steve Jobs words), MS might have supported Intel throughout but MS eversince Windows 95 became just a marketing company swallowing little software houses one by one (Yes i know Pentium 4 and its GHZ was a marketing campaign also but in all reality Pentium 4 was definately a better product than Windows OS)...

But why would Intel prefer to work with someone else? Intel wouldn't care if Windows 3.1 came shipped on their P4 based machines as long as it was selling. Even if Apple took over all of Microsoft's marketshare it wouldn't make Intel another dime because they'd sell the same amount of computers that Windows sells on now.

I bet Intel prefers Microsoft philosophy to Apple's because it's got the possibility for more growth of the PC industry. Bill Gates is the one trying to expand the computer to everyone. It is because of Microsoft, IBM, Compaq, Dell, and e-Machines that the PC industry can sell over 200 million machines. They made them cheap enough where everyone can afford one (or two or three). Apple, on the other hand, has generally chosen to price their machines far outside of what most people can afford. That doesn't encourage growth for Intel. Sure, it makes Apple money but it keeps the number of processors sold to a minimum.

Microsoft is also taking the PC into places where it has never really been before. The Media Center is a perfect example of that. Now people are buying Media Centers for their living rooms, family rooms, and dorms in addition to having another PC in the office or bedroom. Similarly, Microsoft's Pocket PC, Xbox, and Smartphone concepts are bringing Intel processors (and other chips) into places they have never been before. What is Apple doing to get computers and Intel procs (potentially) into places they've never been before? As far as I can see their computers aren't doing much and the only real opportunity for growth is with the iPod. If iPods started carrying Xscales and Intel Wifi chips then that would get Intel products into new markets but Apple's iPod is dwarfed by Microsoft's Smartphone sales and PDA sales.

From all my readings I understand that Intel is more than willing to move past x86 architecture (Itanium was their attemp at that, a bad attempt but at least they tried)...

No they aren't willing to move past X86 and that's the reason why AMD is leading the charge to x86-64. Intel is selling tons of processors on the x86 platform and changing that to another platform (even a relatively small change like x86-64) is just a waste of development dollars unless it brings new sales. In the case of x86-64, Intel is only moving to it so AMD doesn't steal a ton of marketshare from them. That's why the Pentium M isn't 64-bit yet and won't be for a longtime-- AMD's procs are very little threat to the Pentium M so there's no need to keep it on the cutting edge.

The Itanium was Intel's attempt to move the server world to a new architecture. Lots of severs already use "alternative" architectures so it was worth a shot. Then AMD came along with x86-64 and essientially showed people how great it was to have full compatibilty with all the X86 software (Linux and Windows). Apple's presence in the server world is virtually non-existient so I doubt they'll have any effect there.

Ultimately, Apple provides Intel with a guarenteed 2-4% marketshare growth in the the next few years. As far as computers go that's all Apple offers. Apple could jump to some new processor achitecture Intel comes up with but why would they do that? How would selling Apple 4 million procs on a new architecture be any better than selling them 4 million x86 procs? It wouldn't.

With Apple they have someone that is willing to experiment together and besides, its never good for one company to be totally dependent on another, as it goes for Intel and MS...

But why? Microsoft isn't going anywhere. You may hate to hear it but Microsoft is by far the best tech company out there with the exception of possibly Dell. Those two companies are the reason why 200 million PC's will be sold this year. Microsoft's support and products are essientially better for the entire business computing segment. They provide almost everything the industry needs and their support is great too. Apple on the other hand makes large jumps (PPC to X86 for example) and has very little backwards compatibilty commitments. Consumers can handle that but businesses with hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars invested in hardware and software can not. They can't afford to switch OSes every year or even every 18 months.

As much as you think Apple is innovative, they aren't. Their business model of getting very high margins from a very small extremely dedicated user base is innovative but it's not one that will make anyone any money except for Apple. What has Apple done in the past 20 years to make computing more popular or move computing into places it's never been before (this creates massive opporunity for growth)? Absolutely nothing. They seriously tried with the Newton but that was the a failure and a long-time ago.

Microsoft essientailly brought Intel into the PDA market and made them dominate it. Microsoft is bringing Intel into the Cell Phone market. Microsoft brought Intel into the living room with the Xbox and Media Center. Microsoft is going to bring Intel into the automobile market with Windows CE. Microsoft (and some PC companies) put Intel procs on everyone's home. Microsoft brought Intel into the business market. Microsoft is bringing Intel into the digital media market (clickstar, processor DRM etc).

Apple is giving Intel another 2-4% marketshare in the personal computer market (and AMD can't touch it). Possibly, Apple can get Intel into the iPod but I doubt xscales will ever grace non-video iPods (the biggest sellers) because xscales are too expensive for such a simple device.
 
BGil said:
If All of Apple's computers were seeing a large increase in sales then I could buy the "fastest growing" stuff -- because it's basically only the Mini driving new Mac sales it's fair to say that this "growth" won't be sustained into next year.

Is that [that the mini is driving sales] fact or opinion? I was under the impression that Apple has opted not to disclose its sales figures for each individual model. According to some reports, the iMac is the model having better-than-expected sales.

Squire
 
Squire said:
Is that [that the mini is driving sales] fact or opinion? I was under the impression that Apple has opted not to disclose its sales figures for each individual model. According to some reports, the iMac is the model having better-than-expected sales.

Squire

I think you're right on that one Squire - I seem to recall hearing that exact same thing from Apple at some point (i.e. no more reporting by individual machine).
 
Squire said:
Is that [that the mini is driving sales] fact or opinion? I was under the impression that Apple has opted not to disclose its sales figures for each individual model. According to some reports, the iMac is the model having better-than-expected sales.

Squire
IIRC last quarter, the revenue rose much more than the margin did. That's a sure sign that the Mini was eating iMac and eMac sales. But even so, look at the notebook line and you'll see very little growth (comparably).
 
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