Speculation: The ARM 13" MacBook Pro

[essential]

When Ming-chi Kuo announced the first two ARM Mac devices would be a 13" MacBook Pro and a 24" iMac, I was a bit surprised. I figured the old 12" MacBook was the perfect design for a ARM based Apple device. I believe Apple needs an ultra-portable in their lineup, which doesn't exist at the moment (I don't consider the Air an ultra-portable).

Then I got to thinking that after shrinking the bezels, the 15" MacBook Pro became the 16" MacBook Pro. There are rumors that the 13" MacBook Pro will become the 14" MacBook Pro once Apple shrinks the bezels similar to the 16" MacBook Pro.

I'm speculating here but when Kuo references a ARM 13" MacBook Pro, I think it's going to be something very similar to the 12" MacBook body, with shrunk bezels, allowing for a 13" screen. It's going to be designated a "Pro" device because of the power it will be capable of thanks to the A14. The Pro lineup will be 13"/14"/16" MacBook Pro, with the 13" being an ultra-portable. I imagine there will be some sort of other distinctions between the 13"/14"/16" but I'm not sure what besides screen size (once they're all ARM based). Maybe the 13" is fan-less, and the 14"/16" have active cooling just to be able push the A series chips to serious power. It'll be interesting to see how the lineup gets differentiated as the ARM transitions completes, and if there is room for the Air in the lineup.

 

[KPOM]

I would certainly be interested in that hypothetical ultraportable 13”. I agree that ever since Apple dropped the 12” MacBook from their lineup, they have lacked a true ultraportable. Perhaps it would need to be a little thicker in order to accommodate Thunderbolt (which the 12” lacked), but I’d accept that.

 

[Zackmd1]

My thinking is kind of the opposite. I think they will stick an ARM processor into the current 13 inch design and replace the two lower spec models (the ones that stuck with 8th gen processors).

What might be the plan (trying to justify updating the 13 inch model with ARM without also replacing it with 14 inch led) is that this new ARM model becomes the "MacBook" dropping the pro designation. That allows for 13" ARM MacBooks this year with a new 14" led model next year replacing the two Intel 13" Pro models. Then the MBA line gets a refresh moving to smaller bezels and (purely my speculation) the same 12.9 LCD used with the iPad Pro. That should allow the MBA to pretty closely match the late 12" model in size and portability.

So then the lineup would be...
13" MacBook ARM
12.9" MacBook Air (12" MacBook form factor) ARM
14.1" MacBook pro ARM and Intel
16" MacBook pro ARM and Intel
24" iMac ARM
30" iMac ARM and Intel
[automerge]1594321734[/automerge]

I would certainly be interested in that hypothetical ultraportable 13”. I agree that ever since Apple dropped the 12” MacBook from their lineup, they have lacked a true ultraportable. Perhaps it would need to be a little thicker in order to accommodate Thunderbolt (which the 12” lacked), but I’d accept that.

It wasn't an issue with thickness, the Intel m processors lacked the thunderbolt controller and they didn't include a standalone controller on the small logic board.

 

[KPOM]

It wasn't an issue with thickness, the Intel m processors lacked the thunderbolt controller and they didn't include a standalone controller on the small logic board.

Given that the current MacBook Air uses the 10th generation “Y-Class” processor, earlier generations of which were 5W and used in the MacBook, my guess is that the 12” didn’t have the thermal capacity for the TB3 controller. The Air’s cooling system looks designed for Apple Silicon (all the misguided complaints about “overheating” on the MBA forum).

 

[UltimateSyn]

I believe Kuo said specifically that it would be a very similar body to the current 13" MBP. I wish the first ARM laptop was coming with a new form factor, though. More exciting that way.

 

[Waragainstsleep]

Check the front page, he's changing his tune.

 

[Zackmd1]

Check the front page, he's changing his tune.

Yea it now sounds like the 13" could get a slight design update/revision. The MBA is a new addition but makes the most sense to me for not getting any design update since it looks like it was designed with arm in mind from the start.

 

[Falhófnir]

I'd rather they didn't stick to the current model lineup personally, think its a waste having all the very similar 13" machines. Assuming they do near like for like replacements as they did with the Intel transition, hopefully as things bed in they can take advantage of the new silicon's strengths and have a bit of a rethink. The 14" redesign of the $1,799 MacBook Pro would be a start but I don't see the need to continue with the 2TB version as well if the MBA also gets that much better.

 

[Zackmd1]

I'd rather they didn't stick to the current model lineup personally, think its a waste having all the very similar 13" machines. Assuming they do near like for like replacements as they did with the Intel transition, hopefully as things bed in they can take advantage of the new silicon's strengths and have a bit of a rethink. The 14" redesign of the $1,799 MacBook Pro would be a start but I don't see the need to continue with the 2TB version as well if the MBA also gets that much better.

Personally I would like to see them combine the base MBP options and the MBA into one machine. With Apple silicone, I would imagine the chassis of the MBA would be able to handle the increased power demand over the current intel offerings. The 14 MBP would then be able to slot into the $1499-$1799 price bracket. MBA goes away and it is just called a MacBook.

 

[Ma2k5]

I'd rather they didn't stick to the current model lineup personally, think its a waste having all the very similar 13" machines. Assuming they do near like for like replacements as they did with the Intel transition, hopefully as things bed in they can take advantage of the new silicon's strengths and have a bit of a rethink. The 14" redesign of the $1,799 MacBook Pro would be a start but I don't see the need to continue with the 2TB version as well if the MBA also gets that much better.

I know what you mean but then I feel they were happy to have so many versions of the iPad/iPhone - their strategy seems to be to target price points rather than form factors or a “simple” lineup.

 

[awesomedeluxe]

When Ming-chi Kuo announced the first two ARM Mac devices would be a 13" MacBook Pro and a 24" iMac, I was a bit surprised. I figured the old 12" MacBook was the perfect design for a ARM based Apple device. I believe Apple needs an ultra-portable in their lineup, which doesn't exist at the moment (I don't consider the Air an ultra-portable).

Then I got to thinking that after shrinking the bezels, the 15" MacBook Pro became the 16" MacBook Pro. There are rumors that the 13" MacBook Pro will become the 14" MacBook Pro once Apple shrinks the bezels similar to the 16" MacBook Pro.

I'm speculating here but when Kuo references a ARM 13" MacBook Pro, I think it's going to be something very similar to the 12" MacBook body, with shrunk bezels, allowing for a 13" screen. It's going to be designated a "Pro" device because of the power it will be capable of thanks to the A14. The Pro lineup will be 13"/14"/16" MacBook Pro, with the 13" being an ultra-portable. I imagine there will be some sort of other distinctions between the 13"/14"/16" but I'm not sure what besides screen size (once they're all ARM based). Maybe the 13" is fan-less, and the 14"/16" have active cooling just to be able push the A series chips to serious power. It'll be interesting to see how the lineup gets differentiated as the ARM transitions completes, and if there is room for the Air in the lineup.

Good idea. I think very doable.

TDP should be around the same as an iPad Pro 11 for a fanless design. So let's modify the A12Z. It has:

4 "Performance" CPU Cores @ 2.5GHz
4 "Efficient" CPU Cores
8 Apple GPU Cores
6GB LPDDR4 RAM

So just looking at this at a glance, the first problem is the RAM. I'm guessing this is a single stack. We can't afford to power two stacks - I think we can probably use a 12-16GB stack of LPDDR5 from Samsung instead.

The A12 is on N7, and the move to N5 with the A14 lets us pick between 15% more speed or 30% less power for every core. I don't think we need more than 4+4 CPU cores on this, so we'll take the speed. More GPU cores is better for a "Pro" machine, though. We can get to ten if we mostly lean on power reduction, and have a little power left over (might help us speed up our RAM a bit). So that leaves us with:

4 Firestorm CPU Cores @ 2.86GHz
4 Icestorm CPU Cores
10 Apple GPU Cores
12-16GB LPDDR5 RAM

I think that's good enough for a pro machine! The GPU should be markedly better than Intel's high-end 96EU Tiger Lake iGPU. It will still lose to graphics parts with dedicated high speed memory. I don't think, heat-wise, we can afford HBM2E for our primary memory in this device, but someone is welcome to correct me if they think I'm wrong.

 

[Falhófnir]

Personally I would like to see them combine the base MBP options and the MBA into one machine. With Apple silicone, I would imagine the chassis of the MBA would be able to handle the increased power demand over the current intel offerings. The 14 MBP would then be able to slot into the $1499-$1799 price bracket. MBA goes away and it is just called a MacBook.

I know what you mean but then I feel they were happy to have so many versions of the iPad/iPhone - their strategy seems to be to target price points rather than form factors or a “simple” lineup.

Yes I absolutely think its about segmenting the lineup to drive sales at specific price points, but I don't think that's necessary any more. They could free up enough budget headroom from the cheaper chips to put a P3 panel into the MacBook Air, which along with a chip which will likely outperform the current Pro will kill the market niche for the 2 port Pro. The Air can then easily cover the $999-$1,599 price point on its own (a simpler 3 stock models at $999 $1,299 and $1,499 to replace the 4 Air and Pro stock models currently) while the 14" Pro would start from around its current $1,799.

I just hope they are doing it this way for simplicity in the transition (so its easy to know what you're getting from a new Arm machine from a previous reference point, and so they can point to direct performance gains over the Intel versions of a given machine) and when the transition is over they will rationalise the lineup a bit, and give themselves a bit of room to experiment and actually take advantage of some of the exotic new form factors their own silicon makes possible...

 

[leftyMac]

12” macbook form factor was absolutely my favourite. If they could put the power of 13” MBP in the 12” macbook body (thinner bezel etc), I wouldn’t care about the price, I’d pick it up the day they release it.

 

[Boil]

MacBook - starting at US$999.00

12 P cores / 4 E cores / 24 GPU cores - Monolithic SoC design
LPDDR5 RAM Unified Memory Architecture - 16GB / 32GB / 64GB
NVMe SSD (single NAND blade) - 512GB / 1TB / 2TB
Two USB4 (TB3) ports
14" display / 2560x1600 / 120Hz ProMotion / Mini-LED / 4K webcam / FaceID / stereo speakers


MacBook Pro - starting at US$1,999.00

24 P cores / 4 E cores / 48 GPU cores - CPU / GPU Chiplets & RAM on interposer / package design
HBM3 Unified Memory Architecture - 32GB / 64GB / 128GB
NVMe RAID 0 (dual NAND blades) - 1TB / 2TB / 4TB
Two USB4 (TB3) ports
Two TB4 ports
16" display / 3072x1920 / 120Hz ProMotion / Mini-LED / 4K webcam / FaceID / stereo speakers

 

[ophh1]

It will be so disappointing that if the 1st gen ARM MacBook Pro design is recycling the current ones.
I hope Ming Chi Kuo is not accurate on this one. Instead I believe what he meant could be a new MacBook using the Pro design.

Mark Gurman once reported that there are 3 SoCs based on A14 are coming to the new Macs, one of them is a 12-core SoC (8 Performance + 4 Efficient). I assume they are defined as least powerful, moderate, and most powerful.

So if Apple revives the MacBook again, I think the practical Mac product lineup will be like what iPad is currently doing.
MacBook will become the basic model, Air continues to be the lightest but more powerful than OG MacBook, and Pro will still be Pro.

MacBook Lineup (pure speculation)

13” MacBook
- 2020 Entry Level 13” MacBook Pro design without Touch Bar
- Touch ID
- True Tone sRGB display, 60Hz
- 720p FaceTime Camera
- (Rebranded) A12Z OR Apple Silicon based on A14 (Least Powerful) OR whatever the next gen iPad Pro is using
- 8GB RAM (up to 16GB), 128GB SSD (up to 2TB)
- 2 USB-C ports depends on design (USB3.2 or 4), no Thunderbolt
- Starting price ~$799
- Launch in Q4 2020

13” MacBook Air
- Current MacBook Air design OR OR 2015 MacBook design (Fanless) with Magic Keyboard and less bezel display
- Touch ID
- True Tone P3 display, 60Hz
- 720p FaceTime Camera
- Apple Silicon based on A14 (Least Powerful)
- 8GB RAM (up to 16GB), 256GB SSD (up to 2TB)
- 2 Thunderbolt 3/4 ports with USB4
- Starting price ~$999
- Launch in Q4 2020/Q1 2021

14” MacBook Pro
- Brand new design
- Face ID+Touch ID, Touch Bar
- True Tone miniLED P3 display, ProMotion up to 120Hz
- 1080p FaceTime Camera
- Apple Silicon based on A14 (Moderate)
- No optional GPU
- 16GB RAM (up to 64GB), 512 SSD (up to 4TB)
- 4 Thunderbolt 4 ports with USB4
- Starting price ~$1599
- Launch in Q2 2021/Q3 2021

16” MacBook Pro
- Current 16” design with some tweaks to put Face ID module inside
- Touch ID, Touch Bar
- True Tone miniLED P3 display, ProMotion up to 120Hz
- 1080p FaceTime Camera
- Apple Silicon based on A14 (Most Powerful)
- Optional AMD GPU
- 16GB RAM (up to 128GB), 512 SSD (up to 8TB)
- 4 Thunderbolt 4 ports with USB4
- Starting price ~$2199
- Launch in Q3 2021/Q4 2021

23/24” iMac
- Brand new design
- Face ID
- True tone P3 4K Display, 60Hz (current LG UltraFine 4K 23.6” panel)
- 1080p FaceTime Camera
- Apple Silicon based on A14 (Least Powerful or Moderate)
- No optional GPU
- 8GB RAM (up to 64GB), 256GB SSD (up to 4TB), both non user replaceable
- 4 Thunderbolt 3/4 Ports, 2 USB-A Ports, 1 10Gb Ethernet port
- Starting price ~$1099
- Launch in Q4 2020/Q1 2021

 

[MrGunnyPT]

It will be so disappointing that if the 1st gen ARM MacBook Pro design is recycling the current ones.
I hope Ming Chi Kuo is not accurate on this one. Instead I believe what he meant could be a new MacBook using the Pro design.

Mark Gurman once reported that there are 3 SoCs based on A14 are coming to the new Macs, one of them is a 12-core SoC (8 Performance + 4 Efficient). I assume they are defined as least powerful, moderate, and most powerful.

So if Apple revives the MacBook again, I think the practical Mac product lineup will be like what iPad is currently doing.
MacBook will become the basic model, Air continues to be the lightest but more powerful than OG MacBook, and Pro will still be Pro.

MacBook Lineup (pure speculation)

13” MacBook
- 2020 Entry Level 13” MacBook Pro design without Touch Bar
- Touch ID
- True Tone sRGB display, 60Hz
- 720p FaceTime Camera
- (Rebranded) A12Z OR Apple Silicon based on A14 (Least Powerful) OR whatever the next gen iPad Pro is using
- 8GB RAM (up to 16GB), 128GB SSD (up to 2TB)
- 2 USB-C ports depends on design (USB3.2 or 4), no Thunderbolt
- Starting price ~$799
- Launch in Q4 2020

13” MacBook Air
- Current MacBook Air design OR OR 2015 MacBook design (Fanless) with Magic Keyboard and less bezel display
- Touch ID
- True Tone P3 display, 60Hz
- 720p FaceTime Camera
- Apple Silicon based on A14 (Least Powerful)
- 8GB RAM (up to 16GB), 256GB SSD (up to 2TB)
- 2 Thunderbolt 3/4 ports with USB4
- Starting price ~$999
- Launch in Q4 2020/Q1 2021

14” MacBook Pro
- Brand new design
- Face ID+Touch ID, Touch Bar
- True Tone miniLED P3 display, ProMotion up to 120Hz
- 1080p FaceTime Camera
- Apple Silicon based on A14 (Moderate)
- No optional GPU
- 16GB RAM (up to 64GB), 512 SSD (up to 4TB)
- 4 Thunderbolt 4 ports with USB4
- Starting price ~$1599
- Launch in Q2 2021/Q3 2021

16” MacBook Pro
- Current 16” design with some tweaks to put Face ID module inside
- Touch ID, Touch Bar
- True Tone miniLED P3 display, ProMotion up to 120Hz
- 1080p FaceTime Camera
- Apple Silicon based on A14 (Most Powerful)
- Optional AMD GPU
- 16GB RAM (up to 128GB), 512 SSD (up to 8TB)
- 4 Thunderbolt 4 ports with USB4
- Starting price ~$2199
- Launch in Q3 2021/Q4 2021

23/24” iMac
- Brand new design
- Face ID
- True tone P3 4K Display, 60Hz (current LG UltraFine 4K 23.6” panel)
- 1080p FaceTime Camera
- Apple Silicon based on A14 (Least Powerful or Moderate)
- No optional GPU
- 8GB RAM (up to 64GB), 256GB SSD (up to 4TB), both non user replaceable
- 4 Thunderbolt 3/4 Ports, 2 USB-A Ports, 1 10Gb Ethernet port
- Starting price ~$1099
- Launch in Q4 2020/Q1 2021

You wouldn't think they would release a 12"? Honestly I'm very excited about the possibility of a 12" coming back it's so nice to carry it everywhere I go.

 

[Boil]

You wouldn't think they would release a 12"? Honestly I'm very excited about the possibility of a 12" coming back it's so nice to carry it everywhere I go.

Apple has the iPad / iPad Pro for you, just add Smart Keyboard...! ;^p

 

[vigilant]

It will be so disappointing that if the 1st gen ARM MacBook Pro design is recycling the current ones.
I hope Ming Chi Kuo is not accurate on this one. Instead I believe what he meant could be a new MacBook using the Pro design.

Mark Gurman once reported that there are 3 SoCs based on A14 are coming to the new Macs, one of them is a 12-core SoC (8 Performance + 4 Efficient). I assume they are defined as least powerful, moderate, and most powerful.

So if Apple revives the MacBook again, I think the practical Mac product lineup will be like what iPad is currently doing.
MacBook will become the basic model, Air continues to be the lightest but more powerful than OG MacBook, and Pro will still be Pro.

I like where your heads at. I LOVED my MacBook (MacBook Adorable) when I had it. It really showed what Apple had in mind when they thought Intels roadmap was going to be a lot different than what they actually delivered.

For the 12 core SOC, you could be right on the separation of high performance compared to efficiency, but I tend to think of it as an easy split. My reasoning? I don’t think ARM has the same concept of Hyperthreading that x64 has. Keeping it balanced gives 2 benefits. One, because we don’t have Hyperthreading it gives us the ability to have 6 low priority threads in flight at any time. Two, because macOS is much more likely to have more applications open at once, background apps can use the efficient cores.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

Apple has the iPad / iPad Pro for you, just add Smart Keyboard...! ;^p

Yeah I don't want touch and want a computer.. might jump on the 13" wagon and let my 16" stay at home

 

[stratokaster]

My wife loves her 2016 MacBook and refuses to upgrade to anything that is bigger and heavier — I hope Apple will release a true ultraportable once again, even if it's limited to iPad levels of performance.

 

[ophh1]

You wouldn't think they would release a 12"? Honestly I'm very excited about the possibility of a 12" coming back it's so nice to carry it everywhere I go.

I’ve suggested above that the new Air might use the 12” chassis and stretch the screen to 13”.

Come to think of it if there’s gonna be a OG MacBook, it might be possible to use the current MacBook Air design (That means switch the design between MacBook and Air) other than using the entry level pro design without the Touch Bar.

That 12” chassis is way lighter than the current Air. Since Apple Silicon is able to run fanless, it is possible to use that 12” chassis as the new Air. Hopefully Apple can find some way to cram another USB-C port in it, but it seems difficult. Maybe Apple will be ”courage” again to ditch the 3.5mm audio jack to put another USB-C port in it.

Gosh just announce the new lineup already, argh

 

[Boil]

Gosh just announce the new lineup already, argh

Oh, for sure; announce a line-up they have already stated would take two years to complete...

 

[Falhófnir]

I’ve suggested above that the new Air might use the 12” chassis and stretch the screen to 13”.

Come to think of it if there’s gonna be a OG MacBook, it might be possible to use the current MacBook Air design (That means switch the design between MacBook and Air) other than using the entry level pro design without the Touch Bar.

That 12” chassis is way lighter than the current Air. Since Apple Silicon is able to run fanless, it is possible to use that 12” chassis as the new Air. Hopefully Apple can find some way to cram another USB-C port in it, but it seems difficult. Maybe Apple will be ”courage” again to ditch the 3.5mm audio jack to put another USB-C port in it.

Gosh just announce the new lineup already, argh

I very much agree with expanding the screen within the existing 12" MacBook chassis if it's brought back, people are forgetting how thick the bezels are on the 12" (they aren't the same as the current Pro/ Air let alone the 16" Pro) and that's a lot of wasted space at this size where every mm counts. They can't shrink the machine any further as its size is dictated by the full size keyboard, so expanding the screen out to maybe 12.8-13.0" and pushing it into the corners like on the iPad Pro seems like a logical progression to maximise the usable screen space on this most compact design.

Applying the same principal to the larger machines to make a ~13.0" ~15.0" and ~17.0" with minimal footprint designs would be the golden lineup IMO.

 

[Boil]

Applying the same principal to the larger machines to make a ~13.0" ~15.0" and ~17.0" with minimal footprint designs would be the golden lineup IMO.

But Apple has already done this with the 13" & 15", making them into the 14" & 16"...

 

[MrGunnyPT]

I’ve suggested above that the new Air might use the 12” chassis and stretch the screen to 13”.

Come to think of it if there’s gonna be a OG MacBook, it might be possible to use the current MacBook Air design (That means switch the design between MacBook and Air) other than using the entry level pro design without the Touch Bar.

That 12” chassis is way lighter than the current Air. Since Apple Silicon is able to run fanless, it is possible to use that 12” chassis as the new Air. Hopefully Apple can find some way to cram another USB-C port in it, but it seems difficult. Maybe Apple will be ”courage” again to ditch the 3.5mm audio jack to put another USB-C port in it.

Gosh just announce the new lineup already, argh

A 12” with two ports and with Apple Silicon, would be pretty awesome.

Especially if they shrink the bezels