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SpiderMan 3: Venom and Sandman
- Thread starter saunders45
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watcher2001
macrumors 6502a
solvs said:
IMDB is usually pretty solid.
As for not stating Eddie Brock? Could be a couple of things.
1: they simply decided not to give venom a name in the credits, notice they don't name sandman either. William Baker BTW.
2: They are not going with the Eddie Brock angle on venom. Instead they are going with the alien taking over the suit.
GFLPraxis
macrumors 604
I heard the rumor about those actors and characters over a month ago. Kirsten just confirmed it. I'm pretty sure this is real unless they're deliberately planting misinformation.
I wonder which version of Venom?
Cartoon version:
Symbiont attaches to John Jameson's spacecraft. Supervillan (in the cartoon it was Rhino, but Sandman would work as a replacement) tries to steal something off the spacecraft and Spider-Man tries to stop him and the suit attaches to him during the fight. Eddie Brock writes a false article over what happened to suck up to Jonah, blaming it on Spider-Man. Spider-Man proves the article fake and gets Eddie fired. Eddie blames Spider-Man for ruining his life and tails him. When Peter realizes the suit is trying to take over him he gets it off him but it ends up bonding to the nearby Eddie, who goes for revenge.
Original Comic version (Amazing Spider-Man):
Spider-Man finds symbiont on an alien world and comes back with it. Eddie writes articles about this criminal, but Spider-Man proves that it was someone else that committed the crime, which ruins Eddie's reputation and loses him his job, and in turn his house and wife. He goes into a church, planning to beg for forgiveness before he kills himself, but Spider-Man (trying to get rid of the Venom suit) uses the church's bells to force it off him (the Venom suit hates high-pitched noises). It slithers down onto Brock and he becomes Venom and goes out for revenge.
New Comic version (Ultimate Spider-Man):
Eddie Brock is a childhood friend of Peter's. He's a college science student. Their fathers worked together on this suit that was supposed to bond to a person's body and kill cancer cells and heal the body. Peter is forced to steal the suit for some reason (I've ordered Ultimate Spider-Man Hardcover Volume 3 and am waiting for delivery 🙂 I'll find out then) which makes Eddie angry. He finds out Peter is Spider-Man, and Peter tries to warn him about the fact that the suit tries to control the wearer, but Eddie puts it on and goes after Peter, becoming Venom.
There are a few big differences here:
1) The Ultimate version wants to kill Peter Parker and finds out he's Spider-Man. The original wants to kill Spider-Man and LATER finds out he's Peter Parker. It's a significant distinction, at least in the beginning.
2) The original organically generates webs that are stronger than Spider-Man's. While I haven't read USM Volume 3 yet, from my knowledge I believe the Ultimate version does not shoot webs.
3) The original and cartoon ones are aliens. The Ultimate one ties Eddie into Peter's family history and the Venom suit into his father's legacy. This might be a better angle for the movie, as they like to focus on Peter's moral dilemma. It's a lot harder to beat on your childhood friend and father's creation than it is to beat on an insane alien-possessed ex-reporter.
I wonder which version of Venom?
Cartoon version:
Symbiont attaches to John Jameson's spacecraft. Supervillan (in the cartoon it was Rhino, but Sandman would work as a replacement) tries to steal something off the spacecraft and Spider-Man tries to stop him and the suit attaches to him during the fight. Eddie Brock writes a false article over what happened to suck up to Jonah, blaming it on Spider-Man. Spider-Man proves the article fake and gets Eddie fired. Eddie blames Spider-Man for ruining his life and tails him. When Peter realizes the suit is trying to take over him he gets it off him but it ends up bonding to the nearby Eddie, who goes for revenge.
Original Comic version (Amazing Spider-Man):
Spider-Man finds symbiont on an alien world and comes back with it. Eddie writes articles about this criminal, but Spider-Man proves that it was someone else that committed the crime, which ruins Eddie's reputation and loses him his job, and in turn his house and wife. He goes into a church, planning to beg for forgiveness before he kills himself, but Spider-Man (trying to get rid of the Venom suit) uses the church's bells to force it off him (the Venom suit hates high-pitched noises). It slithers down onto Brock and he becomes Venom and goes out for revenge.
New Comic version (Ultimate Spider-Man):
Eddie Brock is a childhood friend of Peter's. He's a college science student. Their fathers worked together on this suit that was supposed to bond to a person's body and kill cancer cells and heal the body. Peter is forced to steal the suit for some reason (I've ordered Ultimate Spider-Man Hardcover Volume 3 and am waiting for delivery 🙂 I'll find out then) which makes Eddie angry. He finds out Peter is Spider-Man, and Peter tries to warn him about the fact that the suit tries to control the wearer, but Eddie puts it on and goes after Peter, becoming Venom.
There are a few big differences here:
1) The Ultimate version wants to kill Peter Parker and finds out he's Spider-Man. The original wants to kill Spider-Man and LATER finds out he's Peter Parker. It's a significant distinction, at least in the beginning.
2) The original organically generates webs that are stronger than Spider-Man's. While I haven't read USM Volume 3 yet, from my knowledge I believe the Ultimate version does not shoot webs.
3) The original and cartoon ones are aliens. The Ultimate one ties Eddie into Peter's family history and the Venom suit into his father's legacy. This might be a better angle for the movie, as they like to focus on Peter's moral dilemma. It's a lot harder to beat on your childhood friend and father's creation than it is to beat on an insane alien-possessed ex-reporter.
Raidersmojo said:
Maybe not. I don't think I've seen him anywhere else besides the 70's show, but perhaps he's a really good actor and you'll be able to look past the fact that he doesn't look like the comic book.
Think back to when Michael Keaton was cast as Batman, everyone said "he's Mr. Mom/Beetlejuice, come on, he's no Batman". Turns out Micheal Keaton is a good actor and he was the best Batman, it didn't matter that he was wasn't the big guy drawn in the comics.
I like when they pick someone NOT just because they look like the comic character. Remember a few other actors that may have looked like the comic, but really didn't do the character justice.
Riddler, Jim Carrey, played the same character he always plays.
Two-face, Tommy Lee Jones, just mimed Jack Nicholson's Joker, missed the whole ex-best friend of Bruce Wayne conflict (though really that was the fault of the script)
Mr. Freeze, Arnold, just painful to watch.
Give me a good actor any day instead of that. I'll wait to judge until after the movie is out. So far this one doesn't look like it's suffering the curse of the 3rd superhero movie, Raimi is still in charge and I haven't heard of any comedians cast as superhero sidekicks. I'm more worried about the next X-Men, now that Singer is out of the picture it could be next Batman Forever.
GFLPraxis
macrumors 604
~Shard~ said:
See my above post discussing the different versions.
Five years ago, Marvel started over from scratch with the Ultimate universe. There are now four new series:
Ultimate Spider-Man
Ultimate X-Men
Ultimate Fantastic Four
The Ultimates (used to be the Avengers)
Since the Amazing Spider-Man series has been going on for around 40 years the story is a jumbled and confusing mess for newcomers. The Ultimate Spider-Man series starts all over again in the 21st century. Great comic series, I highly recommend buying the hardcovers. All the villans get a makeover, too.
For example;
The Green Goblin actually mutates his body, instead of just becoming strong and putting a mask on.
Harry Osborn is the Hobgoblin, instead of the Green Goblin II (the Hobgoblin was a guy that stole Norman's Green Goblin formula in the original comic books).
Eddie Brock is a childhood friend of Peter's and a science student, and the Venom suit is the creation of Brock Sr. and Parker Sr. that went wrong- rather than Eddie being a reporter and the Venom suit being an alien like in the original.
Etc, etc.
There are also a lot of crossovers between the Ultimate series.
However, I'm pretty sure Kristen Dunst did NOT specify whether this is the original (reporter/alien) Venom or the Ultimate (science student/experiment) Venom.
question fear
macrumors 68020
i think it would make a lot more sense if they use the ultimate version. 1) the ultimate version is more up to date, as was mentioned earlier the amazing spider man has way too many plotlines and threads to follow them back easily in a movie. 2) The ultimate version has already shown itself to be amenable to changing aspects of the mythology and villains, something the movies have done as well (peter shooting webs out of his wrists instead of fashioning shooters, etc). Therefore, it feels like there's more flexibility in using the ultimate approach.
Then again, they've gone for a nice meld of many origin and action stories for the first two movies, maybe they will use a totally new origin this time.
-Carly
Then again, they've gone for a nice meld of many origin and action stories for the first two movies, maybe they will use a totally new origin this time.
-Carly
GFLPraxis
macrumors 604
The Ultimate version would also make sense because, well, quite simply, the movie writers for Spider-Man like to make it revolve around Peter's personal life. The Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) is Peter's best friend's father and something of a father figure to Peter himself. Doctor Octavius is a man whom Peter looks up to and respects, and works for his best friend Harry.
So what makes more sense for the third movie; some guy who works at the same place and combines with an alien, or Peter Parker's childhood friend, who goes to the college Peter wants to go to and works in a lab that Peter wants to work in, combining with a suit that Peter's own father created?
The Ultimate version fits the style of the Spider-Man movie writers much better.
However, the one thing that makes me wonder if they'll use the old Venom is that in the first Spider-Man movie, J. Jonah Jameson is told, "We've had Eddie on it for weeks, no one can get a picture of the guy." If this is Eddie Brock they're talking about, then they've already established that Eddie works for the Bugle. However IIRC at the time Spider-Man came out in 2002 the Venom story arc in the Ultimate Spider-Man arc that introduced Venom (issues 38-39 were the first ones to have Eddie in the full suit, and the series started 2000-2001 I believe) may not have occurred yet, so at the time that would have been the only Eddie backstory.
I also wonder about the name of Harry.
Will he be the Green Goblin II, as in the comics, or the Hobgoblin, as in Ultimate Spider-Man?
I know a lot of people who outright think Harry Osborn was always the Hobgoblin, so few would complain, but there was actually an issue of the original Amazing Spider-Man where Harry Osborn as Green Goblin II FOUGHT the Hobgoblin (using a stolen and improved Goblin formula). The original Hobgoblin was some dude who found Norman's goblin formula and glider and improved it.
Since Harry obtained the green suit I'm assuming Harry will be Green Goblin II, but maybe he'll spray paint it yellow and be Hobgoblin.
So what makes more sense for the third movie; some guy who works at the same place and combines with an alien, or Peter Parker's childhood friend, who goes to the college Peter wants to go to and works in a lab that Peter wants to work in, combining with a suit that Peter's own father created?
The Ultimate version fits the style of the Spider-Man movie writers much better.
However, the one thing that makes me wonder if they'll use the old Venom is that in the first Spider-Man movie, J. Jonah Jameson is told, "We've had Eddie on it for weeks, no one can get a picture of the guy." If this is Eddie Brock they're talking about, then they've already established that Eddie works for the Bugle. However IIRC at the time Spider-Man came out in 2002 the Venom story arc in the Ultimate Spider-Man arc that introduced Venom (issues 38-39 were the first ones to have Eddie in the full suit, and the series started 2000-2001 I believe) may not have occurred yet, so at the time that would have been the only Eddie backstory.
I also wonder about the name of Harry.
Will he be the Green Goblin II, as in the comics, or the Hobgoblin, as in Ultimate Spider-Man?
I know a lot of people who outright think Harry Osborn was always the Hobgoblin, so few would complain, but there was actually an issue of the original Amazing Spider-Man where Harry Osborn as Green Goblin II FOUGHT the Hobgoblin (using a stolen and improved Goblin formula). The original Hobgoblin was some dude who found Norman's goblin formula and glider and improved it.
Since Harry obtained the green suit I'm assuming Harry will be Green Goblin II, but maybe he'll spray paint it yellow and be Hobgoblin.
When I heard the Topher Grace would be Venom I hated it. Then as I thought about the idea some more it made perfect sense. Toby Mcguire and Topher Grace are about the same build, thus making the distinction between Spider-man and Venom as true opposites and how either one could have very easily become the other. This assumes that they follow the Ultimate storyline of them being friends. I think Raimi intended this. Ultimately we'll have to wait and see. Why isn't it coming till 2007? Why!!!
GFLPraxis
macrumors 604
Alright, I got Ultimate Spider-Man 2-4 two days ago. That means I have every issue from #1-52, IIRC 😀 The Venom arc is 33-39. So now I know the full story.
And I've got to say, it's very powerful. I really hope they follow the Ultimate version rather than the old "angry reporter combines with alien suit" one. Eddie seems like this great guy at the beginning, a friend whom Peter looks up to, being that Eddie is in college and Peter is a high school kid (granted, that peice will have to chance because Peter is in college in Spider-Man 2). He seems like a really great guy, and when they first meet up after not seeing each other for years he's very excited, very happy, etc. He becomes friends with Peter's friends and everything.
As the story develops you start to wonder about Eddie, from what his friends think of him, how he treats women (hitting on a 15-year-old girl), etc, but whenever you see him around Peter he acts like the nicest guy. Peter tries to finish his father's experiment and steals the suit and puts it on, and there's a bunch of action as he goes around town with the Venom suit kicking criminals around. Poor Shocker. Then he sees a guy that looks like the man who killed his Uncle Ben and the suit takes over and he almost kills the guy. Peter manages to remove the suit he's wearing and gets back to the lab to get the beaker containing more of it and destroy the project. Eddie, meanwhile, saw him on TV wearing the suit and figured out that Peter is Spider-Man, and catches him in the lab. He's very mad but Peter explains what happens and why he has to destroy it. Eddie is upset because that's all he has left of his father, but since he realizes he can't stop Peter agrees with him on what he said.
The reader is left thinking, okay, this looks resolved...but as soon as Peter leaves, Eddie pulls out a second beaker, angry with Peter, feeling he was betrayed. He puts the suit on but is unable to control it and becomes Venom.
It's a really good story because at the beginning it makes you wonder how such a nice guy like Eddie could possibly become Venom and then you start to see how he really is and the act he puts on.
Oh yeah, and Ultimate Venom DOES have webs, but they're different. The original Venom had white patches on the back of his hand that he shot webs out of.
The webs were exactly like Spider-Man's in appearance.
On the other hand, the Ultimate version can shoot off a strand of itself that becomes like the web, out of any part of it's body. And it's black, rather than looking like web. When Spider-Man was in the Venom suit, he would shoot the black webbing out his fingertips and swing on it. When Eddie was Venom one panel showed the black webbing come out his back and swing around him. I can provide scans if anyone wants to see it.
So the Ultimate version would have black webbing coming out of his body, the original would have normal webbing coming out of his wrist or the back of his hand.
And I've got to say, it's very powerful. I really hope they follow the Ultimate version rather than the old "angry reporter combines with alien suit" one. Eddie seems like this great guy at the beginning, a friend whom Peter looks up to, being that Eddie is in college and Peter is a high school kid (granted, that peice will have to chance because Peter is in college in Spider-Man 2). He seems like a really great guy, and when they first meet up after not seeing each other for years he's very excited, very happy, etc. He becomes friends with Peter's friends and everything.
As the story develops you start to wonder about Eddie, from what his friends think of him, how he treats women (hitting on a 15-year-old girl), etc, but whenever you see him around Peter he acts like the nicest guy. Peter tries to finish his father's experiment and steals the suit and puts it on, and there's a bunch of action as he goes around town with the Venom suit kicking criminals around. Poor Shocker. Then he sees a guy that looks like the man who killed his Uncle Ben and the suit takes over and he almost kills the guy. Peter manages to remove the suit he's wearing and gets back to the lab to get the beaker containing more of it and destroy the project. Eddie, meanwhile, saw him on TV wearing the suit and figured out that Peter is Spider-Man, and catches him in the lab. He's very mad but Peter explains what happens and why he has to destroy it. Eddie is upset because that's all he has left of his father, but since he realizes he can't stop Peter agrees with him on what he said.
The reader is left thinking, okay, this looks resolved...but as soon as Peter leaves, Eddie pulls out a second beaker, angry with Peter, feeling he was betrayed. He puts the suit on but is unable to control it and becomes Venom.
It's a really good story because at the beginning it makes you wonder how such a nice guy like Eddie could possibly become Venom and then you start to see how he really is and the act he puts on.
Oh yeah, and Ultimate Venom DOES have webs, but they're different. The original Venom had white patches on the back of his hand that he shot webs out of.
The webs were exactly like Spider-Man's in appearance.
On the other hand, the Ultimate version can shoot off a strand of itself that becomes like the web, out of any part of it's body. And it's black, rather than looking like web. When Spider-Man was in the Venom suit, he would shoot the black webbing out his fingertips and swing on it. When Eddie was Venom one panel showed the black webbing come out his back and swing around him. I can provide scans if anyone wants to see it.
So the Ultimate version would have black webbing coming out of his body, the original would have normal webbing coming out of his wrist or the back of his hand.