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On one hand, it's ridiculous for apple to charge 30% just to use their payment processing. On the other hand, Apple has every right to charge as much as they want. It's their service. Spotify doesn't have to use it. As others mentioned, Spotify can go the other way, just as Netflix has. Sign up in a browser, log in via the app.

Spotify also isn't using Apple's CDN to distribute their content.

It's more absurd that unelected bureaucrats think they can tell Apple how much to charge for their services and how to administer them. Physical goods are one thing, digital services are another.
 
This is ridiculous. Nobody is downloading or using Spotify because of Apple. Spotify didn’t build a business on the back of Apple. Apple needs to stop with this BS that anyone who is successful is only successful because of Apple. So arrogant.
Hmmm i dunno. No one is downloading Spotify without Apple or Google. Sure, you can just access Spotify on their webpage. No one has time for that. If they didn't develop and app to ride on one of these platforms at least, they would not exist today. Period.
So Apple tracks you like google, and stifles competition? Why am I not surprised. Apple sell the hardware and operating system, and then force you to use their marketplace. I'm getting really tired of the apple taxes, such as only being able to use Siri to switch on my front door light if I'm connected to my home wifi, unless I fork out on an Apple TV or HomePod which I don't need as I have google nests which work with any operating system. and now they want 27% of Spotifys income from a click, whilst doing nothing to serve the content?

Everyone is saying apple should leave the EU, but if Spotify quit iOS I think there would be a bigger effect as most people in UK at least seem to use Spotify.

I look forward to laughing at the downvotes.
Then Spotify should speak with their feet. Leave IOS. If it's too expensive to do business with, stop doing business with them. Go Android exclusive. Maybe they can take the customer loss. Maybe some Apple users will leave for Android to stay with Spotify. Maybe enough for Apple to drop prices. Who wins in the end? Who knows.
 
Spotify should speak with their feet. Leave IOS. If it's too expensive to do business with, stop doing business with them. Go Android exclusive. Maybe they can take the customer loss. Maybe some Apple users will leave for Android to stay with Spotify. Maybe enough for Apple to drop prices. Who wins in the end? Who knows.
I think we all know that Apple would win because few people carry two phones or will change to a completely different technology platform for the sake of one app. That's where the monopoly issue comes in.

Personally as a developer, I gave up and added in-app purchases with the prices set 15% higher than on my website. Spotify could do this and be done with it. But I appreciate the principle that some companies and government entities are willing to fight for.
 
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I don't see why Spotify has to pay anything to Apple here. I pay Apple for my device and my services. Spotify doesn't have to pay Verizon every time I stream a song on an iPhone. I pay Verizon. Honestly why does Apple have this special status of being able to triple dip and demand money for everything that touches iOS? They think devs owe them, users owe them, they want to build out advertising revenue, they want people like Google to pay them to be on the platform... they just want to be in every single entity on Earth's pockets and it's gross. They think they deserve it but always conveniently forget the iPhone would be nothing without the rest of the world (the internet/infrastructure, the third party apps on the platform, etc).
Imagine if Microsoft tried to pull this with Windows apps? They’ve already been through an antitrust suit and know better. It’s time to take Apple to court.
 
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No one is stopping Spotify from creating their own mall or going to set up shop in another one. Should Apple be penalized for building the best mall available?
As long as two malls control virtually all sales to consumers in the country, and the proverbial online mall (a whole operating system) costs billions to build, they can't just set up another one.

And Apple should restricted from what they can charge in their mall - and penalised for noncompliance.

Spotify wants to use app technology and access their Customers for free.
...just like Uber, Doordash, Spotify and AliExpress.
It is my opinion that the App Store does play a role in facilitating a transaction between the company and the consumer. Apple put in a lot of effort in getting users to trust in the safety and security of the App Store. They make it easy to pay using iTunes and biometrics and convenient to create a new account via Sign in with Apple.
Absolutely.
It should just not be the only such facilitator on that operating system for services like Spotify.
Deserves is a strange way to put it. Do they deserve a cut for applications installed on macOS? Does MS deserve a cut for Windows applications?
Whether they "deserve" it or not, it's undesirable for the greater economy and society to let them charge as they please.
 
A reminder of what is happening on Spotify and the contribution to the biggest wave of gun violence in Europe



So the question is…why is everyone currently fighting Apple so badly tainted by crime, corruption and harming society?
We get it.

Sideloading results in warfare and human trafficking.
And Spotify is a majory contributor to money laundering and gun violence.

What's next? 👀
 
Spotify DGAF about you. They just raised their prices for the second time in, what, 8 months? Let the corporations fight over their money, they’ll get yours either way.

I’ve got 5 adults on an Apple One family plan, that’s under $8 a month each and we’re getting the music service plus everything else.
 
Hmmm i dunno. No one is downloading Spotify without Apple or Google. Sure, you can just access Spotify on their webpage. No one has time for that. If they didn't develop and app to ride on one of these platforms at least, they would not exist today. Period.
That’s weak sauce. It’s Apple that’s forcing all app distribution to go through the App Store. It’s Apple that’s hindering PWAs on it’s platform because they want everything to go through their App Store.
 
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It’s simple. Apple spends billions on their platform build, maintain and marketing to get and keep customers using it. 75% of Apps are free apps paid for by ads or pay apps on the platform. Spotify wants to use app technology and access their Customers for free. Imagine Apple setting up a table in target to sell iPhones, but refuses to pay them for using their store.
How much does Uber pay Apple for access to iPhone users? And I say access to iPhone users because that’s what this is all about. If Spotify wouldn’t exist without the iPhone then certainly Uber (and Lyft) wouldn’t. But they don’t pay Apple a dime.
 
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That's correct. So why doesn't Spotify do the same? It's the largest music streaming app on the planet just as Netflix is the biggest movie/TV streamer.
It's cosmically dumb to have a system that fundamentally requires payment through only their environment on one hand, and the other hand disallows any possible mention, link, or reference of alternative payment possibilities. That's monopolistic behavior.

And the argument of "the other guys do it" is also (edit) kind of a cop out. They've simply done it because it worked at the time. Some of these services have evolved to become "the biggest" over the entire ecosystem evolution of both the apple app store and their streaming systems. Apple has never, ever allowed even the mention of paying outside of their bubble or even mentioning how to pay outside of their bubble.

This argument always gets cyclical too. Sure, people have the choice of Apple or Android. But do they really? Once you're on an Apple, you literally have one store. It's not like you'll throw your phone away and go get an Android. You are, in very much reality, locked in to that one store. And that one store's rules even disallow devs, customers, anyone to even know that you can pay for something via alternate methods. It's the Apple Way or No Way.

So even citing your example, if Netflix had existed this whole time with a banner inside the app stating very explicitly "To subscribe to our service, please go to netflix.com and pay there!" you'd have a valid argument. And that would be an amazingly easy answer to this. But no. Not allowed. Not even that. Even without a link.

Like mere knowledge of a different payment system (apps can't even mention how to pay on their own sites) is somehow protecting Apple users? No. That's why this is so dumb, and obvious that Apple only takes this stance to drive more money and payment processing through the Apple app store -- it's purely for money, not security.
 
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Yeah I'm sure basic OS features are worth a third of Spotify's revenue. Do you people ever listen to yourselves?
1. This has nothing to do with “basic OS features”
2. The fees Apple charges are not even close to “1/3 of Spotifys revenue”

Yes I do listen to myself, I also have over 20 years experience in the software industry, so unlike you I know what APIs are. Also can understand basic math, which you also seem to be having difficulty with.

Come back when you know more about both.
 
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It's cosmically dumb to have a system that fundamentally requires payment through only their environment on one hand, and the other hand disallows any possible mention, link, or reference of alternative payment possibilities. That's monopolistic behavior.
No it’s not monopolistic unless you have a monopoly, which the iPhone does not.
 
1. This has nothing to do with “basic OS features”
Apple want to charge 27% for some text and a link (!) in an app.

What’s a hyperlink - if not a basic feature?

No it’s not monopolistic unless you have a monopoly, which the iPhone does not.
Apple has a monopoly on app distribution to consumers on iOS.
 
No, I’m saying the tools to make that software isn’t yours (or Spotifys). When you buy a house you don’t get the tools that made it.
Your analogy breaks, in that I don’t have to buy the tools from the people that sold me the house (or mall - the analogy is getting somewhat stretched). In this analogy Apple (the builder) is allowed to stop any other builders working on the house unless we pay them a fee.
 
Which is basically the case for any vertically integrated product where the company controls both the hardware and software. That by itself should not be enough to find Apple guilty.
Apple aren’t guilty of a monopoly.
They may be guilty of abusing that monopoly in anticompetitive ways.
And they should be regulated to limit their power.
 
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Your analogy breaks, in that I don’t have to buy the tools from the people that sold me the house (or mall - the analogy is getting somewhat stretched). In this analogy Apple (the builder) is allowed to stop any other builders working on the house unless we pay them a fee.
No analogy is perfect. But the point is without Apples tools Spotify couldn’t make an app to begin with. Why should Spotify get to use those tools for free?

Further, Apple doesn’t have to allow ANYONE to build an iOS app nor make the tools to allow them to do so. They didn’t have to create the AppStore. They could have done it but limited it to select partners (aka the old video game console model). They could do it but charge a huge fee upfront. That they chose to do it this way is a business decision. Meanwhile Literally no one is forced to make an iOS app, it’s a choice that they have to decide based on the cost of doing so and any value they expect to get in return. Spotify wants to benefit from the work Apple has done to both create the iPhone AND the AppStore AND the tools to build Apps, but doesn’t want to pay Apple a dime for any of it. It’s ludicrous.
 
Apple want to charge 27% for some text and a link (!) in an app.

What’s a hyperlink - if not a basic feature?


Apple has a monopoly on app distribution to consumers on iOS.
That’s not a remotely meaningful definition of a monopoly. Next you’ll say Burger King has a monopoly on the Whopper or Toyota has a monopoly on the Prius.

Apple is not required by any law to allow third party apps (nor should it be) and it’s not required by any law (nor should it be) to provide app building APIs and tools. They choose to do so as a business decision. And Spotify CHOSE to make an App as a business decision. They knew going in what the fees were. Apple didn’t add them after the fact. If you go to a store and decide to buy some food you don’t get to complain that the store charges you the price on that food. They told you what it would cost. They told Spotify what it would cost.

Meanwhile 27% of Spotifys fees on iOS Devices isn’t 1/3 of its iPhone revenue let alone 1/3 of its total revenue.

And finally no, hyperlinks in Apps isn’t a basic feature. It’s not required for the app to work. Hyperlinks are a web site feature. Plus the 27% isn’t just for the text and hyperlink, it covers the API and tools.
 
Malls do take a cut. I owned a restaurant and every mall wanted a percentage of gross. ended up in a mini mall type location that also took a cut. Facts are good! I am no Apple defender…quite the opposite. But Spotify a nd Epic are the bad guys in this. Apple has every right to charge these weasels!
Since you are big on facts, what was the cut?
 
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