SSD in Optical Bay Woes...

[garstudios]

That won't work. A 6g SSD will not work in a 2011 MBP's optical bay. The bay supports it, the wiring doesn't - unless it's an Oct 2011 13".

There are a load of posts here about this and discussion on the owc (macsales blog). If you start at the top of this thread and work your way down you'll get an idea of the issue.

It's a hardware issue - not Windows or OSX

yeah but it should work at 3g speeds. correct?

 

[garstudios]

I amazed that TRIM hasn't been discussed here! I have just come across TRIM Enabler for OS X and wondered if anyone had tried it. I am about to put a 256 GIG Samsung 830 in the HD bay and the 1 TB HD in the optical Bay. I have a mid 2010 MBP i7. I have already set iTunes up to work with all its data on the HD. I will be installing a fresh Mountain Lion GM (I am a dev) on the SSD and using Migration Assistant to move the already trimmed down User account. Fingers crossed all goes well.

p.s. I am not using CCC for this as preliminary tests using the new CCC for Mountain Lion produced a lot of issues. I have used CCC for years with out incident but I'm not willing to risk anything so doing it the Apple way this time.

its been talked about a lot in other threads. i haven't set trim up on mine yet. i set my user folder up on my HDD, so nothing is being written or deleted from the SSD besides the smaller OS stuff/operations/updates/app settings. the only thing on my SSD is OS X Lion and apps. i imagine it will be awhile before i run into any decrease in performance since its a 256gb drive with only about 30gb being used, but yes i do plan on enabling it sooner or later. i have everything moved over and working as of now and don't have time to deal with another issue (if it creates one) so I'm holding out till i have free time to screw with it, even though its supposed to be as simple as...download, install, turn on.

 

[Rajpdx]

yeah but it should work at 3g speeds. correct?

No. It won't work at all. It will hang and crash. A Sata 2 drive will work as the bay will drop to Sata 2 speed.

 

[garstudios]

No. It won't work at all. It will hang and crash. A Sata 2 drive will work as the bay will drop to Sata 2 speed.

are you sure it just doesn't do that if its used as an osx boot drive? has anyone tested using a sata3 ssd as just a storage drive or bootcamp drive in a 2011 mbp optical bay (that is known to have an issue using a sata3 ssd as a mac os x boot drive from the optical bay). I'm not saying your wrong, i just wish people would link a thread showing someone who did what their saying won't work or will work. unless they tried it themselves, then say they did it and it doesn't work. however, theres to many variables just to assume it doesn't work, unless you or some one did exactly what the guy is trying to do with the exact same models and same equipment...on top of that, even the same models differ.

basically you just have to try it.

its been a few weeks since I've had my samsung 830 in the optical bay of my 2012 macbook pro non retina. it seems to be working fine. i ran Blackmagic Disk Speed Test. i will attach the scree shot. i guess I'm getting the speeds I'm supposed to. am i not?

 

[Rajpdx]

are you sure it just doesn't do that if its used as an osx boot drive? has anyone tested using a sata3 ssd as just a storage drive or bootcamp drive in a 2011 mbp optical bay (that is known to have an issue using a sata3 ssd as a mac os x boot drive from the optical bay). I'm not saying your wrong, i just wish people would link a thread showing someone who did what their saying won't work or will work. unless they tried it themselves, then say they did it and it doesn't work. however, theres to many variables just to assume it doesn't work, unless you or some one did exactly what the guy is trying to do with the exact same models and same equipment...on top of that, even the same models differ.

basically you just have to try it.

its been a few weeks since I've had my samsung 830 in the optical bay of my 2012 macbook pro non retina. it seems to be working fine. i ran Blackmagic Disk Speed Test. i will attach the scree shot. i guess I'm getting the speeds I'm supposed to. am i not?

I've tried it. The mere fact that there was a SATA 3 drive in the optical bay caused the issue. The drive was not being used as a boot drive. It also didn't work with a bootable SATA 3 drive in the optical bay. It also didn't work with a SATA 3 drive in the optical bay and no drive in the main bay.

I would link to a post by someone else, but as I'm writing from my own experience I can't be bothered.

(Although the 4 or 5 posts I've made in this thread tell you exactly what experience I've had and with what machines). Search will show a load of posts from people who've tried it and Other World Computing have written extensively about it too.

Hope that helps.

 

[Retrostarscream]

Hate to thread jack but since we are on the subject, I figured this is a good place as any to post this.

I have recently installed a crucial M4 in the optical drive bay of my 13" 2010 MBP.

Although it gives a noticeable speed increase to the machine, the read speed don't quite match up with what other ppl have reported with the same drive on a SATA 2 interface.

I was under the impression that a SATA 3 drive would max out the speed of a SATA 2 controller. Am I naive for assuming this.

My drive performs consistently 211 mb/s plus or minus 5 on sequential reads with black magic speed test &/or Xbench. The ceiling of SATA 2 is 240-260 no ?

The firmware is on the latest revision of 000F & OS Lion clean install (no cloning) with trim enabled.

What can I do if anything to improve the performance of this drive under OSX?

 

[Digitalclips]

Well, funny enough, when I had cloned it and just installed the single SSD in the HD Bay, everything worked great. It wasn't until I took out the optical drive and put the SSD there.

I was able to go get a new set of SHARP torx drivers and an oversized one with alot of force was able to get the stripped screw out. I put the SSD in the hard drive bay and the HDD in the optical bay and everything is working great... Guess the SSD didn't like being in the optical bay... I was getting the same speeds in both locations though, so it supported 6G kinda.

I had all the same issues for the same reasons on a mid 2010 MBP i7. My problem now is the reason I placed the SSD in the optical bay was that the 1 TB HDD is too fat to fit in the optical bay so I can't reverse their positions.

 

[throAU]

Apparently not.

In their earlier investigations they also found differences within 2011 units. I'm surmising that this is a unit where the wiring doesn't support 2 x Sata 3 based on the symptoms reported - which are the same as for the previous model.

----------

I'd put money on this also.

The issue on the 2011s was tracked down by some random dude on the internet to being interference between the WIFI / some other wiring and the SATA cable that runs to the optibay, which causes interference at SATA 3 speeds over that cable.

He managed to fix the problem by doing a whole heap of ghetto home made RF shielding.


Now...

Unless Apple significantly changed the design of the MBP between 2011 and 2012 (they didn't) or significantly upgraded the optibay SATA cable with some sort of RF shielding, I'd put money on it having similar issues to the 2011s.

For what its worth, my 2011 also reads SATA 6G on the optibay port, but I wasn't willing to risk it with an SSD (or any SATA 3 drive for that matter) in the optibay for the reasons listed above (Hence, i went hybrid).


more info:
http://www.markc.me.uk/MarkC/Blog/Entries/2011/3/3_2011_Macbook_Pro_and_SATA_III_6Gbps.html
http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2011/20110415_1_Tinfoilfix--howto.html (17", but same issue as the 15s)

http://blog.macsales.com/9754-owc-offers-fix-for-2011-17-mbp-sata-problems
OWCs take on it.



Conclusion: it's a defect with the MBP classic chassis design. 6G speed (not available on 2010s I believe?) causes problems with the cable running to the optibay on 15s and 17s.

Maybe your drive (attached to said cable) is more/less RF resistant? Maybe your cable is a bit better?

It's luck of the draw.

With regards to data storage and spending significant money on a drive that may cause random problems depending on say, wifi output or other environmental factors - i'd rather not risk it. YMMV.

 

[QE2]

Hate to thread jack but since we are on the subject, I figured this is a good place as any to post this.

I have recently installed a crucial M4 in the optical drive bay of my 13" 2010 MBP.

Although it gives a noticeable speed increase to the machine, the read speed don't quite match up with what other ppl have reported with the same drive on a SATA 2 interface.

I was under the impression that a SATA 3 drive would max out the speed of a SATA 2 controller. Am I naive for assuming this.

My drive performs consistently 211 mb/s plus or minus 5 on sequential reads with black magic speed test &/or Xbench. The ceiling of SATA 2 is 240-260 no ?

The firmware is on the latest revision of 000F & OS Lion clean install (no cloning) with trim enabled.

What can I do if anything to improve the performance of this drive under OSX?

I'm assuming your 2010 machine is the Core 2 Duo with Nvidia 320m? If so, it'd be helpful if you could give an update on your continued experience? Basically I have the same machine, plus a Crucial M4 SSD, and was hoping to put it in the optical bay like you have!

Did you end up putting it into the HDD bay, or did it stay put?

 

[Retrostarscream]

I'm assuming your 2010 machine is the Core 2 Duo with Nvidia 320m? If so, it'd be helpful if you could give an update on your continued experience? Basically I have the same machine, plus a Crucial M4 SSD, and was hoping to put it in the optical bay like you have!

Did you end up putting it into the HDD bay, or did it stay put?

Yes, that's the one and I decided to not pay attention to the numbers results given to me by the performance rating software since I never quite the numbers everyone else got, however having said this, the drive performs reliably fast in daily real world tasks, which is all I ask for.

I did end up switching the position of the SSD to the HDD bay and the original mechanical hard drive that came with the machine in the optical bay for the sole reason of having problems with sleep and wake up procedures, it seemed to never quite work as you would expect it to.

Once the positions were switched up in that manner there came a crisp harmony between both drives and the OS. Everything works as it should.

 

[gametime10]

Well I initially installed a Crucial m4 256GB in my brand new 2012 2.7 i7 in the hard drive bay. I had cloned from the original drive before installing anything on there. Everything was going well, until I decided to move it to the optical bay and put the Apple 1TB drive in the HD bay. I'm still booting from the m4, but I'm getting a bunch of random beachballs and freezes. The worst part is... I had several screws strip on me in the process, so now I can't take the drive in the optical bay out to trouble shoot! Anybody know the best way to back out these small stripped screws and find replacements for them?

I've worked on Macbooks before, but never had this many issues. I'm sick to my stomache about all these problems with the SSD install. I need some recommendations... I've tried repairing disk permissions, resetting SMC and PRAM all with no luck. Should I try to return the m4 and get a Samsung 830 while they're on sale? The M4 worked fine until I moved it...

I had the exact same problem on a previous 2012 13" MBP i7 configuration, where I was putting a 256GB M4 SSD in the optical bay and getting beach balls and freezes. I solved it by updating the SSD to the latest firmware. This was a pain as it required me to reinstall the Superdrive (there's no other way to do it), but that actually doesn't take that long, and it was worth in the end. Once that was done, I had the M4 SSD running at 6G speeds, and created a nice 1TB Fusion Drive setup with the original hard drive.

 

[l0renz]

not true. in the new macbooks mid 2012 (i think 15" only), both the optical drive and hd are running at full 6gb/s.

Sorry I have a mid 2012 13" MacBook Pro, does this mean the optical bay is not 6gb/s supported? Thanks

 

[l0renz]

Oh dear. In my excitement of buying an SSD Samsung 840 SATA III I accidently bought a SATA II optical bay caddy, will this cause problems? (it's still shipping so I don't know)
Thank you!

 

[Mike Boreham]

I've tried it. The mere fact that there was a SATA 3 drive in the optical bay caused the issue. The drive was not being used as a boot drive. It also didn't work with a bootable SATA 3 drive in the optical bay. It also didn't work with a SATA 3 drive in the optical bay and no drive in the main bay.

I would link to a post by someone else, but as I'm writing from my own experience I can't be bothered.

(Although the 4 or 5 posts I've made in this thread tell you exactly what experience I've had and with what machines). Search will show a load of posts from people who've tried it and Other World Computing have written extensively about it too.

Hope that helps.

My experience exactly mirrors what you say here. SATA 3 (6G) devices don't work in the optical bay of my early 2011 17 inch machine, not even at SATA 2 (3G) speed. The SSD is either not seen by the machine at all, or it hangs and beach balls. Hardware issue.

My 2010 17 inch MBP OTOH is quite happy with SATA 3 devices in the optical bay, but all at SATA 2 speed of course, because there is no SATA 3 support in the 2010 MBPs at all, but at least SATA 3 devices work in the optical bay.

On my 2011 MBP I have a 960 Gb SSD in the original HDD bay and 1Tb 5400 SATA 2 HDD in the optical. I would like to have one of the new 1.5 Tb 5400, or 1 Tb 7200 HDD, or another 960 SSD in the optical, but none of these will work because they are all SATA 3. I have sort of sidestepped the issue by making a home brew Fusion Drive from the 960 SSD and slow 1Tb 5400 HDD, which means only the least used blocks of data end up on the slow HDD. Works really well.