SSD MacbookPro, TRIM?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Drakas, May 13, 2015.

  1. Drakas macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    #1
    Hi guys,
    i have a Macbook Pro 13 mid-2010 with a Samsung EVO 840 256 Gb(with last firmware EXT0DB6Q).

    I read that i should enable trim features for get perfomance improvements.

    What software should i install between Trim Enabler and Chameleon?

    Thanks
     
  2. dusk007 macrumors 68040

    dusk007

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    #2
    I always used Trim Enabler. You should definitely enable it. Not having Trim is like using an SSD that is constantly 100% full. Which leads to inefficient garbage collection -> high write amplification -> lowered nand lifespan and lower performance.
     
  3. JTToft macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Location:
    Aarhus, Denmark
    #3
    Use TRIM Enabler. But if you're running on Yosemite you should be aware of the potential issues you can encounter. See their support article here: https://www.cindori.org/trim-enabler-and-yosemite/

    Basically, to be sure you won't have issues you should disable TRIM and re-enable kext signing before installing OS X updates and before resetting NVRAM or SMC.
     
  4. Cindori macrumors 68040

    Cindori

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Location:
    Sweden
    #4
    I recently released a successor to Trim Enabler called Disk Sensei, which improves the Trim-enabling procedure a lot. I recommend getting it over Trim Enabler as Trim Enabler will not be updated anymore. Disk Sensei is however currently 100% paid software, but the Trim functionality will be converted to a free feature soon, so you might want to wait for that (ETA June).

    It should be noted that as any Trim utility on Yosemite it is still prone to the issues mentioned in the support article above (but has it's own, updated one here).
     
  5. JTToft macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Location:
    Aarhus, Denmark
    #5
    - Meaning that Disk Sensei also requires the disabling of kext signing for both manual and automatic TRIM?
    If so, how does it improve the TRIM-enabling procedure?
     
  6. 556fmjoe macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    #6
    This is only true when the drive actually is 100% full, or close to it. When there is plenty of free space, the lack of Trim is not a problem at all, assuming the drive has built in garbage collection. I have used many SSDs without Trim and there was no performance degradation. Just leave some unallocated space to ensure that there is room for the garbage collection to work and it will be fine.
     
  7. Cindori macrumors 68040

    Cindori

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Location:
    Sweden
    #7
    By having certain safety mechanisms that decreases the chance of ending up with the gray boot screen.
     
  8. Drakas thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    #8
    So the Chameleon is a free utility? Why i shouldn't use it? xD
     
  9. JTToft macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Location:
    Aarhus, Denmark
    #9
    I can tell you why I wouldn't use it. It's from a developer I don't know and have no experience with. I hadn't even heard of "Chameleon" before your post despite me following SSD matters and these forums quite closely.
    Just get Trim Enabler.
     
  10. dusk007, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015

    dusk007 macrumors 68040

    dusk007

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    #10
    No it is full as soon as enough every LBA has been written to just ONCE. The only way without trim to know data can be marked as deleted is if the LBAs have been overwritten or rewritten elsewhere. To the drive it looks as if all LBAs have been written to after they have been written to just once. Onle with Trim can it see empty space as empty space. This is the important distinction many people that say "no trim is fine" don't understand.
    Garbage collection IS NOT a substitute for Trim. Every drive has garbage collection and garbage collection needs Trim to work efficiently.
    Here is a nice article that explains the problem.

    A drive still works when it is 100% filled because there is always some spare area. But that spare area has been shrunk since Trim has become standard and it really is a problem to use todays SSDs without Trim. They expect it.
     
  11. 556fmjoe macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    #11
    Of course it would be slow if you used every LBA, but in order to do that, you'd have to fill up the drive with data first.That's the whole point of leaving empty space so garbage collection has free space to use. It isn't a problem to use an SSD without Trim if you do this. I have 3 128GB SSDs that have been running for 2 years perfectly fine without Trim. Each one has 96GB partitioned as FFS for the operating system and the rest is unused. They are just as fast as when they were new when used in this manner.
     
  12. terencedriver macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2015
    #12
    Surely TRIM is a legacy thing for when ssds were new.
    Now ssds self manage and don't need OS special support for managing data.
     
  13. dusk007 macrumors 68040

    dusk007

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    #13
    @terencedriver Seriously read the article. You clearly got a knowledge gab there. Trim is a necessity for SSDs. Getting by without Trim is the thing of the past. It is not a question of special support but just a question of proper representation of data. The SSD and the OS see different things. Just read the article and you will understand where you got it wrong.

    @556fmjoe and clearly the solution is to not partition a quarter of your drive to have enough spare area. ;);););) Most people would not do that and it is really an impracticle solution that still leaves you with higher write amplification than with Trim. Shortening the life span of the nand just for stubberness or what?

    All modern SSDs work well and better with Trim.
     
  14. 556fmjoe macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    #14
    The very article you keep mentioning says that Trim is not a necessity. Good to use, but not required or worth worrying about.

    As to partitioning, I have left as little as 8GB free with no performance hit. I leave a much larger portion free now in case I want to get another OS on there, but it isn't necessary to leave that much space empty just for over provisioning. Write amplification isn't really a factor until there isn't free space and the data in space the controller wants to use must be itself moved first.

    Life span isn't noticeably affected. SSDs can easily last decades with normal use. I don't care if it only lasts 20 years instead of 50.
     
  15. mikekirk macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    #15
    Looks interesting, as a Trim Enabler owner I'm considering upgrading. I like the idea of Manual Trim, as I've had problems in Yosemite with Trim Enabler causing Kernel Panics.

    One question. How does Manual Trim work when you have File Vault full drive encryption enabled? I would have thought that even if sectors were zeroed out the drive controller would still see them as containing random noise rather then empty?
     

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