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SSD not a good idea on MBP?

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mrgiapanta

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 5, 2010
105
0
OC, California
I read an article on Gizmodo about choosing the right hard drive.
http://gizmodo.com/5496302/the-right-hard-drive-for-you

and this is what the article said regarding SSD for OSX:
"Unfortunately, there's no way to properly maintain an SSD on OSX today. OSX doesn't support the TRIM command and there aren't any OSX-native tools for Intel drives. The only way to restore like-new write speeds on a Mac is to backup your drive, format it, then restore from your TimeMachine backup. If you frequently write large files, you'll definitely notice the performance hit. For that reason, it's not a great idea to buy a SSD to upgrade your MacBook Pro today."

So is it really not a great idea to buy a SSD for my MBP?
 
M

mac8867

macrumors 6502
Apr 5, 2010
457
22
Saint Augustine, FL
mrgiapanta said:
I read an article on Gizmodo about choosing the right hard drive.
http://gizmodo.com/5496302/the-right-hard-drive-for-you

and this is what the article said regarding SSD for OSX:
"Unfortunately, there's no way to properly maintain an SSD on OSX today. OSX doesn't support the TRIM command and there aren't any OSX-native tools for Intel drives. The only way to restore like-new write speeds on a Mac is to backup your drive, format it, then restore from your TimeMachine backup. If you frequently write large files, you'll definitely notice the performance hit. For that reason, it's not a great idea to buy a SSD to upgrade your MacBook Pro today."

So is it really not a great idea to buy a SSD for my MBP?
Click to expand...

Yup... it's a really bad idea to put in a drive that will perform 200 times faster than any regular hard drive, just to watch it degrade to only 180 times faster over time. Really disappointing :)

If you can afford an SSD and are comfortable with the amount of storage. Do it. They make the most amazing performance enhancement you will ever see. There are threads and threads and more threads on this site talking about all the techno-magic ---- but, my advice. Just buy one and enjoy.
 
C

carbonfly

macrumors regular
Nov 9, 2007
188
0
Here is my question......after a few years when the SSD has "degraded" and you want to run TRIM. why not pull the SSD out and hook it to a windows 7 machine to run the optimizer or can you run the optimizer in windows 7 bootcamp?
 
pesc

pesc

macrumors regular
Jan 20, 2006
191
69
Carbonfly: Because the Win optimizer doesn't understand the HFS+ filesystem on the SSD.

mrgiapanta: No it is more difficult than that. The SSD won't understand that it is being reformatted. It will just see a lot of writes to blocks. To restore the SSD you need to take it out, put it in a Win machine, run the SSD manufacturers tool to clear it, put it back into the Mac, and restore it from your TM backup.

Anyways, the performance degradation is with random writes. A degraded quality SSD is still writing much faster than a HD. And the reads (which you do most of) don't degrade. So go ahead and buy one anyway!
 
S

snouter

macrumors 6502a
May 26, 2009
767
0
joelcsf said:
Have a read of this http://www.oczenterprise.com/whitepapers/ssds-write-amplification-trim-and-gc.pdf

Full disclosure: it's published by OCZ and I have now switched exclusively to OCZ SSDs. The idle time garbage collection works and is filesystem/OS agnostic.

In short, the Engadget article is wrong.
Click to expand...

I also found similar information on the Crucial website. I have a 128GB Crucial SSD in my new 17".

Hard drives are fine. If that's all you've ever known, they are as good as ever - both 5400 and 7200. Prices on SSDs are dropping and soon you will be able to address the real concern with SSDs - price for size.

However, once you go SSD, you never go back. They are the most dramatic single component upgrade I can think of, ever. Well, maybe the i7 920 is up there.
 
A

Apple-NoEscape

macrumors 6502
Mar 25, 2010
467
0
United Kingdom
May as well jump in here as I am also thinking about the SSD, should I but the 512GB one apple offers or buy it else where? Uk btw if anyone knows anywhere better to order one.
 
J

JimAtLaw

macrumors 6502
Sep 26, 2006
279
13
Bay Area, CA
Apple-NoEscape said:
May as well jump in here as I am also thinking about the SSD, should I but the 512GB one apple offers or buy it else where? Uk btw if anyone knows anywhere better to order one.
Click to expand...

Is TRIM standardized enough yet to work reliably across different drive models/manufacturers? I was thinking Apple's SSD option, though hideously expensive, would be the most likely to securely roll in TRIM support once Apple implements it, and went ahead and paid my money for the Apple 512GB SSD. (Consider: Will Apple really take the trouble to program the OS and/or firmware to incorporate support for TRIM for other drives that it doesn't ship?)
 
A

Apple-NoEscape

macrumors 6502
Mar 25, 2010
467
0
United Kingdom
JimAtLaw said:
Is TRIM standardized enough yet to work reliably across different drive models/manufacturers? I was thinking Apple's SSD option, though hideously expensive, would be the most likely to securely roll in TRIM support once Apple implements it, and went ahead and paid my money for the Apple 512GB SSD. (Consider: Will Apple really take the trouble to program the OS and/or firmware to incorporate support for TRIM for other drives that it doesn't ship?)
Click to expand...

Is the 512GB SSD really worth £1000 more than the 500GB HDD? Or even better how much would it really cost to buy the HDD seperatly at a different shop (e.g pc world/ amazon etc) compared to the SSD? Is the speed boost really that noticable and significant?
 
U

UKBeast

macrumors 6502a
Jan 21, 2010
625
53
Turkey
Apple-NoEscape said:
Is the 512GB SSD really worth £1000 more than the 500GB HDD? Or even better how much would it really cost to buy the HDD seperatly at a different shop (e.g pc world/ amazon etc) compared to the SSD? Is the speed boost really that noticable and significant?
Click to expand...

It is absolutly noticable but 512GB SSD is much too far expensive, not worth to buy..

128GB or 256GB are considerable...
 
M

mac8867

macrumors 6502
Apr 5, 2010
457
22
Saint Augustine, FL
For what it's worth --- an I post on the SSD threads a lot... the only SSD I would even consider putting in my machines is either the Intel or the OCZ Vertez/Mac edition.

500+ GB is ridiculously expensive for me, but cost is relative to your means. I run a 250 as my main OS drive with a secondary drive for "transient" data.

On Trim, if you stick to Intel or OCZ drives, don't worry about trim. They either support it on the OS or their own garbage collection works superbly.
 
Jaro65

Jaro65

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2009
3,822
926
Seattle, WA
The SSD's that Apple puts in now are apparently from Toshiba. The Kingston SSDNow V+ is apparently the same drive (or at least it uses the identical controller). There are reviews available online. These drives are really not bad and include both a TRIM (which we can't use in OS X) and also garbage collection (which drive does by itself). The test on Tom's Hardware site showed a very negligible degradation over time. I think we're at a stage now where we really don't need to worry about this issue at all. Just put a drive in and use it as a regular drive.
 
Thiol

Thiol

macrumors 6502a
Jan 26, 2008
693
0
I've said this in a lot of threads, but it's worth emphasizing. The performance "degradation" is small enough in the good drives (i.e. Intel) that the average user will not notice.
 
M

mac8867

macrumors 6502
Apr 5, 2010
457
22
Saint Augustine, FL
Thiol said:
I've said this in a lot of threads, but it's worth emphasizing. The performance "degradation" is small enough in the good drives (i.e. Intel) that the average user will not notice.
Click to expand...

Even the technically astute will be hard pressed to MEASURE a change in performance --- if, like you say, you stick with a solid brand, OCZ or Intel
 
D

Dozerrox

macrumors 6502
Dec 23, 2009
452
1
Exeter
mac8867 said:
Even the technically astute will be hard pressed to MEASURE a change in performance --- if, like you say, you stick with a solid brand, OCZ or Intel
Click to expand...

That's good to know.

Could anyone estimate when a decent 256 gig SSD will be available for under say £200? I know it's a lot off the prices now, but it's probably what I'd pay for such a drive.
 
A

Apple-NoEscape

macrumors 6502
Mar 25, 2010
467
0
United Kingdom
Thiol said:
I've said this in a lot of threads, but it's worth emphasizing. The performance "degradation" is small enough in the good drives (i.e. Intel) that the average user will not notice.
Click to expand...

Is there a site where you can compare the price of of various models of SDD throughout different shops?
I would love to go with the 500GB one but I just think the asking price of apple is way ott...
Or even just a decent place to buy intel ones from? Preferably online that ships uk?
 
A

Amnak

macrumors 6502
Nov 16, 2009
461
48
Apple-NoEscape said:
Is there a site where you can compare the price of of various models of SDD throughout different shops?
I would love to go with the 500GB one but I just think the asking price of apple is way ott...
Or even just a decent place to buy intel ones from? Preferably online that ships uk?
Click to expand...

I've read that the ssd apple puts in the new mbp is not that much more expensive than what you'll find on the net.
 
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