SSD on iMac G3 - a tale of pain and failure

[SlimSunny]

Just wanted to stop by and post my experiences trying, and failing, to get an SSD working with OS X Tiger on a Graphite 700MHz that was recently gifted to me by my brother-in-law.

I wanted to avoid cramming a SATA-PATA adapter into the limited fuselage, so I ordered the following two IDE drives:

* Zheino 64gb IDE SSD 64GB PATA SSD 2.5 Inch IDE Pata SSD Disk Drive 44pins 64gb SSD Solid State Drive for Laptop 9.5mm
* 32GB Transcend PSD330 2.5-inch IDE Internal SSD Solid State Disk (MLC Flash)

Along with the following 2.5-to-3.5 chipless adapter:

* QNINE Laptop IDE to Desktop PC Adapter, 2.5 inch 44 Pin HDD Hard Disk Drive or SSD to 40 Pin 3.5 inch PATA Port Converter Card

The Combo Drive on the iMac G3 was broken, so used Target Disk Mode on an Intel Snow Leopard machine and hooked up the FireWire 400 to read a bootleg of the Tiger PPC Install DVD. Try as I might, on both drives, I could not get the Disk Utility included on the Tiger DVD to successfully erase, mount, and unmount a partition in preparation for installation. The Zheino drive would give a read error with any operation, the Transcend drive would erase and mount but would refuse to unmount (so the "Verify" stage of the installation would always fail).

Interestingly, when I reversed the Target Disk Mode, and used the Intel Snow Leopard machine to access the drives still sitting in the iMac G3, I could format, mount, and unmount just fine.

I tried copying an existing hard drive installation to the SSDs and booting from that, but normal boot never seemed to terminate, and I got all kinds of read and disk I/O errors in Single User mode. I was able to boot the copied-drive SSD using a USB enclosure, however; but this is way too slow to be practical. This exercise proved to me that the drives are in working order, but there's something about the internal installation that's a problem.

For the record, I tried every advertised jumper setting on both drives. Nothing doing. I also tested every pin on the QNINE adapter using a multimeter, and they all seemed to check out just fine. (The fact that I could manage the disks from Snow Leopard using Target Disk Mode just fine also indicates the adapter is not the problem.)

Finally, I got my hands on an old 7200rpm IDE from a discarded PC and installed Tiger on that with no problem. The SSDs have gone back to Amazon.

I've seen plenty of posts claiming SSD success on iMac G3s. My question for the group is: What specific SSD, adapter, and OS combinations have proven to work? I'm willing to give it another go, but I don't want to waste more hours waiting for Tiger's Disk Utility to give me uninformative errors. My goal is to run Tiger, not OS 9. I've seen OS 9 success stories but nothing detailed for installing Tiger. I realize Tiger is CPU-bound, and SSDs won't help much, yada yada. But I'm building a machine for a specific purpose where dead silence is of utmost importance.

 

[eyoungren]

I've got a G3 iMac tray loader. A few years ago I decided to put Tiger on it, but I did a little research. From what I picked up, the iMac G3s like a 6GB partition for booting. If you've got a large drive you can partition the rest as a separate drive, but the boot drive should be 6GB.

Now, I pulled the drive out of the iMac, put it in a firewire case and connected that drive to the G4 I was using at the time. I made two partitions, one the 6GB boot partition and the second one for the rest. I then used the G4 to install Tiger on the 6GB partition.

When I was done, I took the drive out of the FW enclosure, put it back in the iMac and fired it up. The boot partition was recognized immediately and the iMac booted straight away, The fact that that iMac has less than 50mb of ram is another problem.

Anyway, I'd suggest trying it this way. Just make sure if you are using the SL Mac that you are partitioning using APM and not GUID or MBR.

 

[SlimSunny]

Thanks @eyoungren. The 7200 I have in there is now 160GB - I don't believe there's a separate boot partition, unless this is created in secret and hidden from view. So I don't think that's the issue. In any event, I am seeing this I/O and unmounting errors before the installation even begins (opening Disk Utility in the Tiger Install DVD).

Yep - using Apple Partition Maps the whole way.

 

[bobesch]

I ran into trouble with a faulty IDE-SATA-adapter, but in my case os9 didn't want to boot, whilst booting into Tiger was fine.
Finally another adapter with 3 bumper-setting options did solve my problem, though the rigid metal EMI-shield needed some "attention" to fit in the adapter&SSD-combination. Maybe inconventionally using some duck-tape to fix the SDD (instead of a metal 2,5"-to-3,5" frame) would have been an easier job.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...esnt-boot-into-mac-os9.2135561/#post-26424807

PS: SSD runs fast, smooth and silent. (No more distraction when listening to the humming sound of the fans ... )

 

[SlimSunny]

Thanks @bobesch! I saw your "hammer post" earlier and it gave me hope that the endeavor must somehow be possible.

How did you install Tiger? Did you copy the drive (block-copy? file-copy?), or run the 10.4.6 installer (on the G3? on another machine? DVD or CD-ROM?). Any and all detail that you can provide, including the adapter and SSD manufacturer names, will be appreciated.

If I give it another go I'm leaning toward the newer IDE-mSATA adapters - looks like it'll fit in the bay just fine without the fat-guy-small-coat routine.

Can't wait to hear the beautiful sound of silence!

 

[Project Alice]

I've got a G3 iMac tray loader. A few years ago I decided to put Tiger on it, but I did a little research. From what I picked up, the iMac G3s like a 6GB partition for booting. If you've got a large drive you can partition the rest as a separate drive, but the boot drive should be 6GB.

This only applies to tray-loader iMacs. The 700Mhz can use up to a 128GB drive.

Now as to the OP's issue:
I had a few problems getting a SATA HDD into my 400Mhz iMac, as well as my iMac G4. I was using a cheap ATA to SATA adapter and it worked for awhile but eventually stopped working. I've yet to find a decent adapter for those things. If you're using a 2.5" SSD though you shouldn't have any problems with space inside the computer. My issue was I was using a 3.5" HDD with the adapter. I doubt I'd have had any problems using a 2.5" drive.

 

[eyoungren]

This only applies to tray-loader iMacs. The 700Mhz can use up to a 128GB drive.

Well…that would explain why I had to do it they way I did then. Thanks.

 

[1042686]

Well…that would explain why I had to do it they way I did then. Thanks.

Just went through that myself tuning up a revB tray loader with a bunch of edutainment apps for my son. I was thinking it was 8gb. Took a while to remember it was 6. Hilarious to me that os9lives installed fine on the other 30Go+ partition.

Plenty of room for a 2.5” form factor for sure.

 

[0248294]

For the IDE to SATA adapter, I would recommend StarTech. In the Original Xbox modding scene, everyone swears by them, because the cheap ones often don't work, have weird issues, or stop working quickly.

 

[bobesch]

How did you install Tiger? Did you copy the drive (block-copy? file-copy?), or run the 10.4.6 installer (on the G3? on another machine? DVD or CD-ROM?). Any and all detail that you can provide, including the adapter and SSD manufacturer names, will be appreciated.
If I give it another go I'm leaning toward the newer IDE-mSATA adapters - looks like it'll fit in the bay just fine without the fat-guy-small-coat routine.

Actually can't remember the way I've installed Tiger on my 400MHz Tangerine with SSD-Upgrade...

I think, I've started formatting and partitioning the drive in an external USB-housing connected to another PPC.

Then it first was "all-os9" on that machine and I started to install os9 by booting the original iMac restore-disk through the CD-slot-drive and later updated in 2 or 3 steps to os9.22. Installation of Classilla and Toast5x had been the only help "from outside" - all the other stuff came via original disks or using Classilla to download stuff from the "Garden".
Installation of Tiger was second. I've got a bunch of 3 Tiger-CDs as well as a Tiger-DVD. I guess installation was through the iMac's slot-drive using the CDs. Other option would have been:
a) my bootable external LG FireWire-DVD-drive (a lucky remnant of my time with Win98SE )
b) using another iMacG3 and install Tiger from CD-disk onto the Tangerine's SSD-partion, which had been set into Target-Disk-Mode (FireWire-connection)
c) using another iMacG3 and clone it's Tiger-partion onto the Tangerine's SSD-partion, which had been set into Target-Disk-Mode (FireWire-connection and CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper!)
I like that FireWire stuff! (also to connect two running Macs to create an ad-hoc FireWire-network-connection, that allows fast file-transfer without TDM. Works even between PPC and late intel-machines or even with a FW800-to-Thunderbolt-adapter)

My IDE-to-SATA adapter is the very same shown on that picture in the other thread. It sports a 3-pin jumper for optional Master/Slave/CableSelect. Look for such a 3-pin jumper, if you order an adapter. Mine came at 3bucks each.

I'd prefer an 2,5" SSD over an mSATA, since SSDs are pretty cheap now - cheaper than the mSATAs.
As the others mentioned, the size of the 2,5" SSD is not a problem, but my adapter and the frame, to fix the 2,5"SSD into the 3,5"-slot did only fit in very tightly. Maybe another or no metal frame would have been more convenient.

So to say getting the SSD to work and installing os9 and Tiger ran pretty smooth and were good fun ...
... AFTER I've got the right IDE-To-Sata adapter!

 

[SlimSunny]

Then it first was "all-os9" on that machine and I started to install os9 by booting the original iMac restore-disk through the CD-slot-drive and later updated in 2 or 3 steps to os9.22. Installation of Classilla and Toast5x had been the only help "from outside" - all the other stuff came via original disks or using Classilla to download stuff from the "Garden".
Installation of Tiger was second. I've got a bunch of 3 Tiger-CDs as well as a Tiger-DVD. I guess installation was through the iMac's slot-drive using the CDs.

Okay, this is helpful. I tried using the Software Restore CDs that came with the computer, but was unable to boot them over FireWire (the Combo drive being kaput). I'll see if I can fix the Combo drive (I tore a solder joint whilst wiping the internal mechanisms), or get my hands on another optical. I could imagine the OS9 part of the firmware liking the local CD drive more than FireWire / Target Disk Mode, although the Tiger DVD booted just fine.

I was very happy with the form factor of the PATA SSDs of both Zheino and Transcend. mSATAs, by the way, are cheaper than you may think, e.g. $25 for Zheino 120GB mSATA SSD Q3 Internal Solid State Drive. I was paying 2-3X that price (and 10X on a per-GB basis) for those PATA SSDs.

 

[bobesch]

Okay, this is helpful. I tried using the Software Restore CDs that came with the computer, but was unable to boot them over FireWire (the Combo drive being kaput). I'll see if I can fix the Combo drive (I tore a solder joint whilst wiping the internal mechanisms), or get my hands on another optical. I could imagine the OS9 part of the firmware liking the local CD drive more than FireWire / Target Disk Mode, although the Tiger DVD booted just fine.

I was very happy with the form factor of the PATA SSDs of both Zheino and Transcend. mSATAs, by the way, are cheaper than you may think, e.g. $25 for Zheino 120GB mSATA SSD Q3 Internal Solid State Drive. I was paying 2-3X that price (and 10X on a per-GB basis) for those PATA SSDs.

It's always good to have a FireWire-connected optical-drive at hands!
The one to rule them all!
They are hard to find now, but not impossible. A functioning case is important - a defective drive can be easily replaced. Mine came at 10 bucks, but the drive had to be replaced ...



There's also a nice one in a current auction (mods: not my auction!)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Que-Drive-...a=0&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

 

[Dronecatcher]

It's always good to have a FireWire-connected optical-drive at hands!

My Formac Firewire DVD is my oldest optical drive...and also the one still working when virtually all my other drives have died (or only play CDs.)

 

[CooperBox]

Talking FireWire connected optical drives, a short while ago (after advise from this forum) I purchased a LaCie external FW400 drive. Can't see any model number indicated, just a 'Design by F.A.Porsche' marked on the chunky grey casing. Lovely piece of kit, and done everything I've wanted from it so far.

 

[Amethyst1]

Talking FireWire connected optical drives, a short while ago (after advise from this forum) I purchased a LaCie external FW400 drive. Can't see any model number indicated, just a 'Design by F.A.Porsche' marked on the chunky grey casing. Lovely piece of kit, and done everything I've wanted from it so far.

I also stuck to LaCie FireWire drives for my G4 Mini. Even had one of them as a striped set with the internal drive. Fun, but not reliable enough as a boot drive.

 

[SlimSunny]

** END OF PANDEMIC UPDATE ** for anyone interested...

I decided to revisit the Summer 2001 iMac now that the sun is out, the machine is approaching its 20th birthday, and the author is approaching a greater one.

I had previously returned most of the Amazon off-brand equipment listed above, since I was unable to pinpoint the source of SSD I/O errors that I was seeing. Was it the drive? The IDE 2.5" to 3.5" adapter? The Tiger install DVD? The answer belongs to a pre-pandemic world.

To get a fresh start on the project, I told the bartender that the old cocktail was sour and to bring around instead an OWC 120GB Mercury Pro Legacy 3.5" IDE/ATA SSD Internal Drive Kit. Reviews indicated that these drives are compatible with G3 iMacs, and so for the first time in over a year, I felt a sense of hope. The drive can be had for $62 and shipping; the 120GB size is the smallest that OWC sells, and the largest that the G3's can boot (I'm told). Alas, the metal bracket that ships with the kit didn't fit into my iMac, so instead I bolted the disk onto a Sabrent 2.5 Inch to 3.5 Inch Internal Hard Disk Drive Mounting Bracket that I had from the previous endeavor.

However, the iMac Software Restore CD – the gray disc that my brother-in-law had held onto for nearly two decades – didn't recognize the SSD, even after reformatting said SSD via FireWire (Apple Partition Map, MacOS Extended, Journaled, Case-Sensitive). It recognized that something was there, and showed a floppy disk with a blinking question mark, but refused to go any further.

But the Mac OS X Tiger installer was more cooperative. It took a couple of attempts to install - a flakey DVD drive gave out on me part-way through the first try using the 10.4.6 Universal Install DVD, but the Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.2 Install CD Set (1-4) got me over the finish line using a non-flakey Que!Fire CD drive that I had ordered from eBay. There are 4 CDs in the set, but if you unselect the various install options, including non-'merican fonts, languages, and printer drivers, then you just need the first two CDs and can congratulate yourself on sparing yourself the time and expense of burning two needless CDs.

All of which is to say - it works! The installation process this time around was flawless, and I could enjoy the celebratory Tiger intro video without the sputtering of a hard disk to mar the experience. Logging in and installing updates is fast - I forgot that I was using a machine from the dot-com days. I feel like I've converted a rickety old VW bug to electric. Thanks to everyone for the perspective and assistance, and to the folks at OWC for keeping another iMac out of the dumpster. As I type this, I'm listening to crickets.

 

[California]

** END OF PANDEMIC UPDATE ** for anyone interested...

I decided to revisit the Summer 2001 iMac now that the sun is out, the machine is approaching its 20th birthday, and the author is approaching a greater one.

I had previously returned most of the Amazon off-brand equipment listed above, since I was unable to pinpoint the source of SSD I/O errors that I was seeing. Was it the drive? The IDE 2.5" to 3.5" adapter? The Tiger install DVD? The answer belongs to a pre-pandemic world.

To get a fresh start on the project, I told the bartender that the old cocktail was sour and to bring around instead an OWC 120GB Mercury Pro Legacy 3.5" IDE/ATA SSD Internal Drive Kit. Reviews indicated that these drives are compatible with G3 iMacs, and so for the first time in over a year, I felt a sense of hope. The drive can be had for $62 and shipping; the 120GB size is the smallest that OWC sells, and the largest that the G3's can boot (I'm told). Alas, the metal bracket that ships with the kit didn't fit into my iMac, so instead I bolted the disk onto a Sabrent 2.5 Inch to 3.5 Inch Internal Hard Disk Drive Mounting Bracket that I had from the previous endeavor.

However, the iMac Software Restore CD – the gray disc that my brother-in-law had held onto for nearly two decades – didn't recognize the SSD, even after reformatting said SSD via FireWire (Apple Partition Map, MacOS Extended, Journaled, Case-Sensitive). It recognized that something was there, and showed a floppy disk with a blinking question mark, but refused to go any further.

But the Mac OS X Tiger installer was more cooperative. It took a couple of attempts to install - a flakey DVD drive gave out on me part-way through the first try using the 10.4.6 Universal Install DVD, but the Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.2 Install CD Set (1-4) got me over the finish line using a non-flakey Que!Fire CD drive that I had ordered from eBay. There are 4 CDs in the set, but if you unselect the various install options, including non-'merican fonts, languages, and printer drivers, then you just need the first two CDs and can congratulate yourself on sparing yourself the time and expense of burning two needless CDs.

All of which is to say - it works! The installation process this time around was flawless, and I could enjoy the celebratory Tiger intro video without the sputtering of a hard disk to mar the experience. Logging in and installing updates is fast - I forgot that I was using a machine from the dot-com days. I feel like I've converted a rickety old VW bug to electric. Thanks to everyone for the perspective and assistance, and to the folks at OWC for keeping another iMac out of the dumpster. As I type this, I'm listening to crickets.

This is the 700mhz Graphite? Nice.