SSD Performance Over Time

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Akira81386, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. Akira81386 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    #1
    I understand SSD's will degrade performance over time because the hard drive will become more full and there isn't official SSD support under OS X. I was wondering if you cloned your drive, wiped your drive clean, and then reinstalled your backup if that would restore the drive's performance. Thanks
     
  2. ttran88 macrumors regular

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    Nov 12, 2009
    #2
    technically it would work. but it would be very time consuming.
     
  3. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

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    #3
    yes that will work and give back 99% of the performance values :)

    too bad OSX doesnt support trim eh?

    this discussion could get VERY intense ;)
     
  4. Akira81386 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Apr 19, 2010
    #4
    Yeah, I know. Hopefully Apple will release an update to support Trim. This being my first mac I want to know the best way to backup my drive to do this. Any suggestions or links to point me in the right direction? Thanks
     
  5. matttung macrumors member

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    Apr 17, 2010
    Location:
    HK
    #5
    I used to have a 80gb Intel SSD (The very very early models, with defrag problems), but that totally stopped working after around 6 months of usage - It just died off. It was fixed the first time by writing zeros to the drive, but the drive died again soon after 7 days. Couldn't be fixed at that point -

    I'm now using a 64GB SSD as my primary drive on my Macbook c2d (white), and it has been working perfectly for almost a year - recently, OSX has started to lag really bad, at random times for a prolonged period of time (sometimes 10 seconds, sometimes 30, 40, 50.. etc.), although the drive still performs extremely quickly.

    So, I booted from my SuperDuper! clone, and wrote zeros on the SSD and restored the data from my external clone onto the SSD. The freezes seemed to have shortened, but I'm still unsure wether it's a software problem or a hardware problem.

    You wouldn't need to 'reclone' your SSD frequently, around once every 8~12 months should be fine (at least, for me). :apple:

    But until OSX has TRIM support, I'm not gonna put a SSD into the new MBP i5 that I ordered :p
     
  6. Akira81386 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Apr 19, 2010
    #6
    I hope I will have better luck with my drive. Thanks!
     
  7. henry72 macrumors 65816

    henry72

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    New Zealand
    #7
    Can anyone tell me why? Because this is a very serious problem!!!!!
    Will it effect my data?? << MOST IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    :mad:

    Cheers
     
  8. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

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    #8
    it would be nice. im not that fond of SSDs at the moment. the technology seems very... lacking. they have left many loop holes in the development of it. speed is nice though.

    no! your data will be fine! you should ALWAYS have backups though of course!
     
  9. ttran88 macrumors regular

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    Nov 12, 2009
    #9
    there was a post saying that there is going to be an update to support trim for the up and coming update. yay! :D
     
  10. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

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    #10
    oh really? link us!
     
  11. cool11 macrumors 65816

    cool11

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    Sep 3, 2006
    #11
    I wonder what the hell the are doing there at Apple's central development offices.
    Windows 7 have trim support almost a year now.
    How much difficulty has the osx implementation of trim????
    So many people scream for a good ssd solution!

    On the other hand, new macbooks pro, officially now support an 'apple solution' for ssd, not just go to a marketplace and buy one to put it inside your new laptop.
    So, how can they offer an ssd option if it has possibilities of faulty functioning?
     
  12. Mark Booth macrumors 65816

    Mark Booth

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    Jan 16, 2008
    #12
    Why are so many people living in early 2009 with regard to SSD? The secret to maintaining SSD performance IS TO BUY THE RIGHT SSD! Last year, OCZ and Indilinx released firmware for OCZ SSDs that include Garbage Collection. GC works similar to TRIM but it's built into the firmware of the SSD. GC runs in the background when the SSD is idle. As little as 5 minutes of idle time can make a dramatic difference in SSD performance. And, because GC runs from the firmware in the SSD, no special support is needed in the host computer's OS.

    Read more about GC and how hothardware tested its effectiveness in August 2009 here:

    http://hothardware.com/News/OCZ-and-Indilinx-Collaborate-On-New-SSD-Garbage-Collection-Scheme/

    And, BTW, when OCZ first released the updated firmware (in September/October as I recall) they released one that supported TRIM (firmware version 1.4) and one that supported GC (firmware version 1.41). But in January 2010 they released a single firmware version that supports both TRIM and GC (version 1.5). Yes, you still need an OS that supports TRIM but now that both TRIM and GC are in one firmware, a firmware 1.5 OCZ drive can be installed in a Mac and use GC until support for TRIM comes along.

    The secret to happiness with an SSD is to buy the right SSD in the first place. My OCZ Vertex SSD is about 1 year old and I've filled it nearly all the way full (with photos mostly) on multiple occasions, deleted them, and filled it up again.. and again.. and again. My Vertex SSD tests just as fast today as it did when it was brand new.

    Mark
     
  13. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

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    #13
    you know so much - yet you opted for the OCZ SSD? (with samsung chips) ? hmm ok.

    with the OCZs, you arent guaranteed which model of firmware you will get, one might support GC, one might not.

    SSD - no thanks. not for me (yet). they need to fix the flaws in it first.
     
  14. miniConvert macrumors 68040

    miniConvert

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    Location:
    Kent, UK - the 'Garden of England'.
    #14
    Do Apple-installed SSDs somehow work differently, as they're factory-fit?

    I only ask because we've got Rev A and Rev B MBAs with SSDs and they continue to fly to this day (I'm on the Rev A right now). I know it's only subjective, but there has been no perceivable slowdown. They still kick my 2007 MBP to the curb for everyday tasks.
     
  15. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

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    #15
    they are the same SSDs, same installation - they just charge more for the branding etc..

    even with write amplication and no TRIM support - the slow down of SSD is still going to be >80MB/s - which is still noticeably faster then any mechanical HDD.
     
  16. DesmoPilot macrumors 65816

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    Feb 18, 2008
    #16
    Why knock OCZ? Sure Crucial and Intel have faster drives, but OCZ has a very respectable SSD lineup along with the best support for their SSDs bar none. Also, all of the SSDs out OCZ's door since late January have shipped with 1.5 which - as stated before - supports both TRIM and GC. If you happen to get old stock all you have to do is upgrade the firmware to 1.5 and bingo, that and OCZ supplies a very easy to use flash tool so that's not even an issue.

    SSDs are in their infancy yes, but they've definitely matured to the point where they should be taken seriously (and are by the PC enthusiast community). Of course they're not ideal for mass storage, but used as an OS/application drive they are without doubt the best upgrade you can do for your computer these days.
     
  17. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

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    #17
    im not knocking at all - they do make decent SSDs and the pricing is pretty good. im just making everybody aware of both sides of the story. no use in talking up this great product when there are also down sides.

    and FYI - you cannot custom upgrade the firmware on the OCZ (samsung) drives, you must send back to the factory to be upgraded. so if you get stuck with old stock, you are in trouble. another down side.

    you definitely arent wrong there. they are great for app response time! for mass storage (which is all i care about) they are stupid for the end consumer, and even more stupid for the corporate business - the fact that the controller canfail without warning troubles me the most! you wont know where or when - so backup constantly! they currently have a lifetime of around 10 years (the controller that is).

    the underlying technology really worries me, the fact that they had to implement TRIM/GC is stupid. the fact that the controllers read 512KB at a time (when 99% of drives will use 4KB blocks at a time) confuses the hell out of me. thanks for the write amplification problems....
     
  18. DesmoPilot macrumors 65816

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    #18

    On the samsung drives yes, but OCZ has shipped with MLC chips for quite a while now.
     
  19. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

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    #19
    i was under the impression that all OCZ drives used samsung components.
     
  20. DesmoPilot macrumors 65816

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    #20
    They do, but the Samsung-MLC that OCZ has shipped with for quite a while now has a very easy to use firmware flash tool. I've had to do it on my Vertex 120GB a couple times now and have done so without any hiccup, as have countless others on other forums I frequent.
     
  21. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

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    #21
    ok. thanks for that. i was just going off anandtech said!

    gotta keep learning these things :)
     
  22. cool11 macrumors 65816

    cool11

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    Sep 3, 2006
    #22
    Can somebody tell us if apple's new ssd options(samsung?) for the new macbook pros, will have good performance over time?
     
  23. Lambros macrumors regular

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    Feb 24, 2010
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    #23
    Hey guys, sorry to interrupt this heated discussion, but I didnt want to start a new thread. I want to get an SSD and partition then install Windows alongside OS X (obviously for gaming, etc) so I was wondering, does it work the same way as a normal HDD (i.e. with a disk)? Could I just partition the SSD and load the operating system? Also, wouldnt this be easier than with a normal HDD because I wont have the problem of needing to worry about defrag before partition? Thanks!
     
  24. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

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    #24
    like all SSDs installed in macs, they will have degradation in performance (over time). for a general user, the effects wont be very noticeable. i wouldnt worry about it.

    hey lambros - the SSDs act in EXACTLY the same way as any mechanical HDD - just with lots less space ;) nothing to worry about there.

    p.s. never defrag SSDs ;) it wrecks them!
     
  25. cool11 macrumors 65816

    cool11

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    Sep 3, 2006
    #25
    I am not concerned about a little bit degradation. Is there a disk-corruption possibility?
     

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