SSD used in 2012 Mac mini

Discussion in 'Mac mini' started by Ice Dragon, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. Ice Dragon macrumors 6502a

    Ice Dragon

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    #1
    Pardon if I'm being a bit impatient though has this been revealed yet?
     
  2. Westyfield2 macrumors 6502a

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  3. linds15 macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    considering putting in an SSD is BTO, i don't think anyone has gotten theirs yet. also not many people put an ssd in through apple, everone i have read about on here has the m4, 830, or vertex 4 waiting to be put into it
     
  4. Kryptik.Kode macrumors member

    Kryptik.Kode

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    #4
    I have the OCZ Vertex 4 in my base 2012 Mini and its awesome so far. Almost 500mbps read AND write with Blackmagic.
     
  5. Westyfield2 macrumors 6502a

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    Bath, UK.
    #5
    I can't decide what to do. I want a 256GB SSD in mine. If I were to do it myself I'd chose the Intel 520 series (I've had bad experiences with OCZs and Crucials in other machines), and that costs £185.

    Apple want £240 for their as-yet unknown SSD, so whilst it's £65 more expensive it would save me the hassle of opening it up, and it'd be covered on the AppleCare.

    I just don't want to pay the £240, and then find it's some slow rubbish thing!
     
  6. iamthedudeman, Oct 27, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2012

    iamthedudeman macrumors 65816

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    #6
    The SSD BTO in the MBP's is a Apple Samsung PM 830. Most likely will be the same for the mini's. I have a 2012 non-retina MBP and it has a 2.5 Apple Samsung PM 830 That i ordered BTO.

    The 2012 Mini's BTO option cost only $300! I see no need to give up native trim support, taking the chance of voiding the warranty trying to save less than $50.

    The BTO option Apple SSD is as fast or faster than the aftermarket SSD you will buy anyway. With native trim support. Win, win if Apple is using the same SSD.

    My mini is on the way with a ordered SSD. I will update this thread when i receive it.

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/10
     
  7. Westyfield2 macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    Cheers :).
     
  8. lcseds macrumors 6502a

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    NC, USA
    #8
    The Samsung 830 and Crucial M4 are excellent choices. I am waiting on some speed tests on the 2012 systems. If they are good, I will stick with the Apple solution. After the math, I could save a little over $100 doing myself, but with the trim/garbage collection/firmware updates that are needed, I'd rather have the Apple experience of simply using the machine and not dinking with it. With Applecare, it's all covered for three years. That's worth the extra hundred or so for me anyway.
     
  9. MatthewAMEL macrumors 6502

    MatthewAMEL

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  10. linds15 macrumors 6502a

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    #11
    people are forgetting that if you upgrade yourself, you get to keep the 1TB thats stock, for photo, media, etc. and then add your own ssd for os and applications. i bought a samsung 256 830 for 220 a couple days ago, and ive seen them all over the internet for ~150-170 (im in canada so after shipping and customs i was better off going local)
     
  11. iamthedudeman macrumors 65816

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    #12
    No one is forgetting that. It is for all intents and purposes a bad choice. Why would you jeopordize your warranty and more importantly trim support, firmware updates, for a cheap HD? You paid 220 even worse. Add shipping and the tools to open your box, how much did you save? $50 if that?

    In case you dont know, HDs are super cheap. Hardly a reason give up trim support, warranty, firmware updates for the hassle. It boggles my mind actually why someone would do this. What are you gaining? A cheap HD and $50 dollars or most likely less?

    The BTO option is almost the same price as the drive you just bought. Apple uses the same drive you just purchased.

    I think people are so used to not looking into this and assumes that Apple is charging too much or using a inferior drive. Which neither are true.
     
  12. linds15 macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    apple is charging too much, as a consumer i bought what is most probably the same drive they used for 220. and many other paid 150, so ignoring my pricing, because im in canada, you save 150 on the ssd, and another ~100 on getting to keep that 1TB already in there. thats a saving of 250, and you get to crack open your computer, which to me and many others is fun and or something you'd end up doing anyway at some point
     
  13. milkmandan macrumors member

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    Oct 3, 2012
    #14
    I also agree that Apple is charging too much.

    As for Trim support, can't you just use TRIM Enabler?

    As for warranty, there is no tape or any physical tab you need to break to swap out the hard drives, how would they even know? As far as I know, if you're careful and put everything back to the way it was, they will never know.

    firmware updates? manufacturers will release firmware updates for their drives as well. if it comes down that the 3rd party ssd needs update, it really isn't that hard to update that thing either. and honestly, if it aint broke dont fix it. Samsung 830's have been out for a while, they are reliable and won't need anymore updates as the 840s are coming out.
     
  14. iamthedudeman macrumors 65816

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    #15
    No Apple is not charging too much. $50 premium over the consumer drive is not too much. They added their custom firmwire to the drive as other enhancements to work specifically with OSX. The drive you bought has no such enhancements or Apple firmware. You need a hack to get Trim to work.

    Sorry 1Tb HD's can be had for as little as $70 US. Heck $50 US on ebay. The average price of the Samsung 830 is $200 US. Hate to break it too you, you are not saving 250.

    How about the people who don't need the 1TB drive? What are you going to do with the it? You are still ignoriing the fact that your SSD is not and will not be supported by Apple. You cannot do firmware updates, it will not natively support trim, and you risk your warranty.

    Lets see, you spent $220, kit to remove the drive say $20, plus shipping $10. That is $250 right there. Apple's drive costs $300. You saved $50. Plus you keep the 1TB drive so you made $50. That is more like $100 give or take. Adding a third party SSD when Apple is charging a good price BTO is not a good decision. It Apple was charging $450 like on my MBP, yes its a good decision. They are not. They are charging $300.
     
  15. iamthedudeman, Oct 27, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2012

    iamthedudeman macrumors 65816

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    #16
    They added their custom firmwire to the drive as other enhancements to work specifically with OSX. The drive you bought has no such enhancements or Apple firmware. You need a hack to get Trim to work. The OEM Apple SSD will work with OSX much better and last longer than the drive you are putting in. It's firmware was designed to work with OSX, the drive you bought was not. Isn't that worth the extra money, a drive that was designed to work with the OS, no fear of voiding the warranty, native trim support and firmware updates. I can see if the drive was faster or a better value, then yes replace it yourself. But it's not.

    So to save a $100. You are going to use a hack, take the risk of voiding the warranty, give up the use of firmware that was designed to work with the OS, has no better performance, actually might have less performance depending on the drive, and have no firmware updates for a measly $100? :confused:

    Is that smart? I don't think it is.

    You can't be serious. If you take your machine in for warranty with a third party drive you better remove the drive first. Do you want to do that every time you take in your machine? OSX doesn't support updates to Samsung drives, firmware or otherwise. Nor does Samsung offer firmware via OSX.

    Well they don't need updates right, because you cant update them. :rolleyes:

    Did you ever take a Mac Mini apart. I have many times and it's not that easy. I don't how many SSD's I have installed in them.

    $300 is to much? Do you want apple to give them away for free?

    What are you gaining exactly by going with a third party drive exactly? Do you even know? Save $100 and what else? Please explain this too me. :confused:
     
  16. milkmandan, Oct 27, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2012

    milkmandan macrumors member

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    #17
    Link me an article specifically in which an engineer has broken down the 'extra enhancements' that Apple has made to make the drive work 'better' with OS X. I'd like to see this and I'd like to see some quantifiable benchmark performance difference.

    The average price of the Samsung 830 256GB is $170, NOT $220. I don't know what sites you are visiting, but Amazon already lists it at $170. You are also COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that maybe some people don't WANT a 256GB SSD and only have budget for a 128GB one. Shame on Apple for not even providing that as an option.

    $170 (amazon free ship) + kit $20 + $10 ship = $200.
    He/she makes $70-50 on the 1TB drive.

    Said individual just saved $150. Guess I'll go take that $150 and put it towards something else.

    Of course i'd remove the drive and if i have to take in my machine to get serviced by Apple THAT MUCH, Apple just lost me as a consumer.

    Because there is no NEED to update them. Not because you can't. And yes, YOU CAN.
    When Crucial released their update to the m4 for the xxxxx hour fail timer, guess what? It applied to any Mac that was using the m4 as well. Firmware is not necessarily OS specific, especially if the update has nothing to do with OS interaction and more over the memory controller and the memory chips on the ssd.

    Actually it is that easy. I don't know what to say, if you think a Mac Mini is hard to take apart, you need to spend some time in the custom PC market.

    Saving...MONEY? Money that can go towards a better cause?

    I know this is a mac forum and I shouldn't expect better, but you sound like the average consumer that is willing to blow $1478874823723432 on anything shiny that Apple throws out and not even blink to reconsider another option.
     
  17. iamthedudeman macrumors 65816

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    #18
    Just like in previous designs, Apple runs its own custom firmware on its SSDs.

    What do you think firmware means. Are they going to release a custom firmware that doens't work with OSX?

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/6005/apples-new-ssd-its-fast

    $220 is the price the previous poster paid for his Samsung $220. I don't care how much you can buy it for, the average price is $200. Some more some less. I don't see $170.

    http://shopper.cnet.com/internal-hard-drives/samsung-830-256gb-ssd/4014-9998_9-35020153.html

    wow. $50 makes a big difference. Like I said. The average price you will make is $100. What are you gaining for that $100. Other than $100. And we were never talking about a smaller drive in the first place.
     
  18. Lance-AR macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Location:
    Little Rock, AR
    #19
    My Vertex4 updates firmware just fine while still inside my mini. It also is trimmed. I don't understand why I would want a 256GB drive when I barely use 60GB on my existing setup. Everything else is stored on an R6 for redundancy.

    If Apple had offered a 128GB drive for $150 I would take it. For $300 I'll just move the one I have and add the 1TB drive to the pile of stuff I don't use.
     
  19. milkmandan, Oct 27, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2012

    milkmandan macrumors member

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    Oct 3, 2012
    #20
    The anandtech article you posted doesn't prove anything except that the Samsung 830, Crucial m4, Intel 520 is faster than Apple's drive in every regard except 128K Sequential Write (4K aligned). Which no one cares about. SSDs are known for the FAST random 4k read/write, and sequential read. All of which Apple lost.

    http://www.amazon.com/SAMSUNG-2-5-I...F8&qid=1351391698&sr=8-1&keywords=samsung+830
    I don't care what the average price is on some tech site eg CNET. Amazon, one of the largest online shopping sites has it for $170.

    I am done trying to convince. Have fun with your $300 SSD.

    THANK YOU
     
  20. iamthedudeman, Oct 27, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2012

    iamthedudeman macrumors 65816

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    #21
    So to save a $100. You are going to use a hack, take the risk of voiding the warranty, give up the use of firmware that was designed to work with the OS, has no better performance, actually might have less performance depending on the drive, and have no firmware updates for a measly $100?

    Still no answer.

    Of course i'd remove the drive and if i have to take in my machine to get serviced by Apple THAT MUCH, Apple just lost me as a consumer.

    One time and they lose you as a customer? Who said anything about getting your machine serviced that much?

    Because there is no NEED to update them. Not because you can't. And yes, YOU CAN.
    When Crucial released their update to the m4 for the xxxxx hour fail timer, guess what? It applied to any Mac that was using the m4 as well. Firmware are not necessarily not OS specific, especially if the update has nothing to do with the OS and more over the memory controller on the ssd.


    Really no need to update them? A drive doesn't need to take advantage in optimizations in the OS. Since when? If OSX updates the OS to take advantage of a new feature where flash storage is concerned, which a third party drive cannot do. That isn't important?

    Sorry you are wrong on that one. The Crucial M4 is the only, let me repeat the only drive to have firmware that updates via OSX. And no crucial cannot have firmware updates to work with the OS like a Apple SSD can.

    Actually it is that easy. I don't know what to say, if you think a Mac Mini is hard to take apart, you need to spend some time in the custom PC market.



    Every time you need to take in your mac, taking a drive out of a Mac mini is that easy. No it's not. I can do it in less than 10min. You assume too much. I did enough of them. But for you one time person who never did it before it can be a daunting task. Let alone to do it every time your machine needs serviced. That notion i absurd.

    OWC Skill Level: "Involved"

    http://eshop.macsales.com/installvideos/mac_mini2011_hd_m/

    Saving...MONEY? Money that can go towards a better cause?

    I know this is a mac forum and I shouldn't expect better, but you sound like the average consumer that is willing to blow $1478874823723432 on anything shiny that Apple throws out and not even blink to reconsider another option.


    Give me a break. Didn't I just say I have installed numerious SSD's in Mini's. So many that I can't even count? Pay attention much?:rolleyes:

    I am frugal as they come being a business owner. I can buy what ever I want for my business, but chose to do them my self. Partly because i like tinkering around also and it saved me money. So I would stop assuming so much, it seems you like to do that.

    I only do something or save money when it makes sense. Not 'just because'. And no $100 is not enough reason to add my own SSD. Especially when having to possibly void the warranty, have no firmware updates, no native trim support, etc.

    No it doesn't make sense and is not very smart. No matter how you spin it.

    ----------

    Once again, WRONG!

    From the article. Even Anand agrees with me.

    How does the Apple SM512E stack up to Samsung's reference PM830 and other modern SSDs? I should note that we're forced to test the SM512E in a different state than we do normal drives (I lack the appropriate adapter to get the SM512E working on my SSD testbed), so the results are likely a bit lower than they would be otherwise.

    Lending further credibility to the theory that Apple tweaked Samsung's firmware for more client focused performance is the very solid showing in our sequential tests. With sufficient random IO performance, client workloads are easily bound by sequential IO - the reason being that client applications still operate under the assumption the user has a mechanical drive, which at best can deliver a couple MB/s of random IO performance.

    Overall I'm very pleased with Apple's PM830 based SSD in the Retina Display MacBook Pro. I am curious to see how the Toshiba alternative performs, as well as how the various configurations used in the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro fare. For the first time since Apple's use of solid state storage in Macs, there's no longer a performance reason to swap in a third party SSD.

    "For the first time since Apple's use of solid state storage in Macs, there's no longer a performance reason to swap in a third party SSD."

    I think he knows a little more than you about SSD's.

    You argument is weak and makes little sense. Good luck saving $100 and giving up custom firmware, no performance gains, Trim support, and possible voiding your warranty. All for the grand total of $100.

    Smart decision. ;)

    ----------

    Not via OSX you didn't. You did it via boot. Nor does trim work via OSX, but via a trim hack.

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1408327
     
  21. Defend Tacoma macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    #22
    I'll be installing an SSD in my mini in the next couple of months. I did with my MacBook Pro a year ago, and it has been amazing. No complaints at all! :D
     
  22. linds15 macrumors 6502a

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    Location:
    Great White North
    #23
    iamthedudeman is just a troll, this forum is filled with people who bought the new mini after it was launched, and had m4s, 830s, or vertex 4s on order to throw in it after. so we are all dumb? you're the only right person, im not saying that its not worth it for some people. but the only person who knows me is me, and for me, id rather put in my drive, and keep the 1TB, all while saving ~200$, rather then let apple do it. be real even the apple techs will tell you to go to a 3rd part place to get a different drive put in when the current one fails, thats what led me to get my first SSD. and even if the saving was only 100, which its not but you've convinved yourself it is, theres money for some extra RAM, or money to go my gifts or anything else, TRIM isn't worth 100$.

    and ive taken jailbroken and macs that ive personally updated to the apple store, not once did a genius ever say this isnt ours goodbye. no they sat and helped me

    so trim can easily be hacked, if you dont trust the GC of the drive you bought, warranty being void is a pile of it, and yes 100$ is 100$ no matter who you are
     
  23. iamthedudeman, Oct 27, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2012

    iamthedudeman macrumors 65816

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    #24
    Newbie calling me a troll because I don't make bad decisioins.:rolleyes: That's funny.

    and ive taken jailbroken and macs that ive personally updated to the apple store, not once did a genius ever say this isnt ours goodbye. no they sat and helped me

    Why would they say this isn't yours? What are you talking about? They can void your warranty if they feel you damaged the machine while upgrading it. Even if you didn't. You are allowed to put in your own drive, that in itself doesn't void the warranty. Even if you didn't damage your machine. They have the final say on what is covered and what isn't.

    How are you saving $200 on a 256 drive? Please explain this to me. You are not saving $200. No where close to that.

    You paid $220
    Shipping $10

    Apple charges $300

    You saved $70.
    HD is worth $70 (being generous)

    You saved $140. How is that $200?

    See how easy that is?

    I am not saying everyone is wrong or right. Do what you want.For me saving $50 isn't worth it. For someone else it might be depending on your situation. To each their own. I replied to you since you spent $220 on a Samsung drive, plus most likely a $20 upgrade kit and $10 shipping. I said that you were better off getting the OEM SSD. Not that everyone is wrong. Try reading the thread.

    Because I disagree with putting in your own drive, when there isn't a real good reason for it. To each their own, but for $100, that isn't a good enough reason to do so. For $50 certainly not.

    I probably put more SSD's in macs more so than anyone on here. Either myself or one of my IT guys. I own over 30 macs. All have SSD's in them either Apple SSD or third party SSD. I have more disposable income than most and still elected to add my own drive. So i pay attention to costs vs benefits. so should you.

    I actually weigh the pro's and the cons of doing something.

    Pro's.

    Save $100 to $150 give or take only if you need the 1TB HD. If you don't it less than that. More like $80.

    Con's.

    No native trim support.
    No firmware updates via OSX other than Crucial
    Drive isn't faster than Apple drive.
    Chance on warranty being void if their is a problem.

    See how easy that is? Not one person can give me a pro other than saving a little bit of money. The Pros' don't outweigh the cons in this situation.
     
  24. milkmandan macrumors member

    Joined:
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    #25

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