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SSD vs. i7
- Thread starter soulred12
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Uh.
Whether or not you have plenty of RAM, you still need to get data off permanent storage and INTO ram. Having plenty of RAM won't help with that, and in general use this is why an MBA with SSD, half the RAM and a 1.6 core2 duo smokes my MBP unless running large workloads or something that is CPU/GPU bound (and most general day to day desktop stuff simply isn't).
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It depends how big your single tasks are. If you're working on a 6gb file for example in a single app, then 8gb will be much faster than 4gb.
Additionally, RAM does get used for file cache, so it will provide a marginal improvement to disk access speeds (if you are regularly reading/writing the same files) if you have RAM spare, however an SSD will help a lot more in that regard.
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I'm definitely getting an SSD.But, I was hoping someone could advise me on how much space I'll have after putting a partition for windows. Would 32GB be enough to have a functional Windows 7 bootcamp partition?
32gb will be very limiting.
Why run boot camp? If it is to occasionally run Windows applications (not games), then how about running Windows on an external drive, through virtualization (VirtualBox is free)?
If you're trying to run games, then 32gb simply won't be enough to install them anyway really
The best way to run an ssd IMO is to have two drives. One hdd and one ssd. A lot of pc's have two drive bays but on the macbook pro I think you can replace the optical drive with another hdd/ssd. You may want to consider ordering it with an hdd and replacing it with your own ssd. Apple uses cheap ssd's, there are much better ones (more reliable controllers/better speed) and the upgrade price is a little overpriced considering you don't get to keep the hdd your upgrading from when you use the bto option.
SSD's are amazing though.
SSD's are amazing though.
Simply Create/move your virtual machine files there, and open them from within vmware/virtualbox off the external drive?
There's no magic to it, virtual machines are just files, and you can open them from anywhere.
To be honest, I haven't tried it in Fusion, or Virtualbox on the Mac, but pretty sure a friend was running a copy of Windows 7 off a USB external drive on his MBA via Fusion. On a PC in vmware or virtualbox it is trivial to do so. So although I've not tried it on the mac, I can't see any reason it won't work.
Virtualizing Windows eliminates the need to partition your boot drive to host it... additionally (and conveniently) you can also run it on another machine
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I'd buy a 3rd party SSD and get that installed if you can.
The $500 upgrade Apple's asking for a 256 GB SSD is insane (on top of the hidden cost for the original hard drive). For $359 you could get a 256 GB OWC Mercury SSD, swap out the iMac's regular hard drive, put that one in an enclosure and use it as a backup drive.
The OWC drive would probably perform faster, too. A 256 GB SSD can be had for as low as $314 (looking at the Crucial ones on Newegg, here), but OWC's are excellent performers and Mac-centric.
The $500 upgrade Apple's asking for a 256 GB SSD is insane (on top of the hidden cost for the original hard drive). For $359 you could get a 256 GB OWC Mercury SSD, swap out the iMac's regular hard drive, put that one in an enclosure and use it as a backup drive.
The OWC drive would probably perform faster, too. A 256 GB SSD can be had for as low as $314 (looking at the Crucial ones on Newegg, here), but OWC's are excellent performers and Mac-centric.
Additional ram was used for file cache as far back as Tiger or so when it was possible to go 8GB of ram with computers of the time. Even in Leopard you didn't get much from it unless you ran multiple ram heavy applications. That's from my own experience back then. It wasn't until SL and 64 bit application builds that it really seemed to make a huge difference in a single application. Modern hard drives really aren't that slow. They're slower than SSDs. They obviously have longer seek times. Much of the delays seems to be Apple's clunky outdated file system. With an SSD it provides somewhat of a brute force workaround, but it shouldn't take long to load files unless we're we're talking about hundreds of megabytes or into gigabytes per file, at which point ssds can feel pretty cramped anyway. With really huge files if they're saved with some kind of compression, it can be cpu bound even with an ssd.
If we're talking about documents and spreadsheets and iphoto albums, modern drives are fully capable of opening these things quickly. I don't hate ssds. I just think they're over hyped because they mask problems that never should have been problems (although i've used other workarounds in the past). I've used both machine types, and either can perform quite well. It really should never take more than a few seconds for an application to load. If you're just seeing the spinning wheel when you go to load something, it's more likely that it's a file system issue than the raw hardware itself. Note that Apple tried to replace that file system once in the past.
I agree with the consensus here. SSD would be more noticeable. And it might be worth your while installing your own after market (I've got an OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS in my setup, and its performance is staggering).
I know you said you don't want to wait, but if you do ponder the question for the next month, you might then want to lay off a bit on a purchase, those ivy bridge updates may not be too far ahead (depending on which rumours you believe!).
I know you said you don't want to wait, but if you do ponder the question for the next month, you might then want to lay off a bit on a purchase, those ivy bridge updates may not be too far ahead (depending on which rumours you believe!).
I'm definitely getting an SSD.
32GB is pretty low. You won't have much overhead to place any programs on there, unless you were planning on putting them on to another drive. If you can bump it up, I would.
And would the file system problem be solved if you add in more rams? And how much more? Right now I have 4GB and get the spinning wheels all the time.
To give you some hard figures, i have a reasonably clean, patched 64 bit Windows 7 install in a VM here. it is using 16gb of space, for Windows + Office.
If you want a swapfile there's another few gb.
Games? A few gb each.
Your 32 gb is running out REAL fast...
If you want a swapfile there's another few gb.
Games? A few gb each.
Your 32 gb is running out REAL fast...
Okay so here's what I'm thinking.
I buy a bottom-of-the-line MBP 13" for $1100 (I have a student discount), a Crucial 256GB SSD for about $300 (having 256GB makes the issue of space for Windows irrelevant; also, I recently looked up how to replace a hard drive and it doesn't seem too difficult), and some extra memory for $100 or however much it goes for. Then I'll sell the internal HDD that came with the MBP to make up some of the difference. Although, how would I go about wiping it so that it's a clean internal drive that a buyer can use for whatever they want?
BUT, my main question is this: Do new MBPs come with a Lion recovery/install disk? If not, how would I get Lion onto the SSD I add in? (preferably without adding Snow Leopard and then paying $30 to update to Lion)
I buy a bottom-of-the-line MBP 13" for $1100 (I have a student discount), a Crucial 256GB SSD for about $300 (having 256GB makes the issue of space for Windows irrelevant; also, I recently looked up how to replace a hard drive and it doesn't seem too difficult), and some extra memory for $100 or however much it goes for. Then I'll sell the internal HDD that came with the MBP to make up some of the difference. Although, how would I go about wiping it so that it's a clean internal drive that a buyer can use for whatever they want?
BUT, my main question is this: Do new MBPs come with a Lion recovery/install disk? If not, how would I get Lion onto the SSD I add in? (preferably without adding Snow Leopard and then paying $30 to update to Lion)
Simply Create/move your virtual machine files there, and open them from within vmware/virtualbox off the external drive?
There's no magic to it, virtual machines are just files, and you can open them from anywhere.
To be honest, I haven't tried it in Fusion, or Virtualbox on the Mac, but pretty sure a friend was running a copy of Windows 7 off a USB external drive on his MBA via Fusion. On a PC in vmware or virtualbox it is trivial to do so. So although I've not tried it on the mac, I can't see any reason it won't work.
Virtualizing Windows eliminates the need to partition your boot drive to host it... additionally (and conveniently) you can also run it on another machine
Has anyone tried this and can comment?
My MBP has a 128 GB SSD of which I have allocated 30GB for Windows to run in Fusion. I only installed Office 2010 and some smaller apps like Notepad++, and 30 GB is plenty. But it would be nice to be able to put in on an external HD.
Oh, and yes, absolutely SSD over i7, and as much RAM as you can afford.
Go for the i7, because you can add a SSD later on and the prices are dropping drastically.
macfan74318
macfan74318
+1. I would do the i7 as well and upgrade to an SSD later (or even now) for way cheaper than how much it would cost for Apple to do it for you.
I'll give it a shot tonight.
I'm currently doing this exact thing in VMware Workstation 8 right now (at work) as I have a PC laptop with SSD here - i can't see why Fusion would be any different.
I'll set a reminder to check it out when i get home
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From memory it should be even simpler with fusion as the folder/all vm files are contained in an app bundle style file. pick up the single file, drop it somewhere else, double click it to open in fusion... but again, will confirm in a few hours....
TAKE IT WITH i7 CORE to be sure your machine going to last next years lately you can collect some money to add an extra SSD faster than factory and less expensive either by yourself or take it to your apple local store to put for you for 50 dollars.
Cleanly shut down the VM, move it, then re-add it to Fusion. It will ask if you moved or copied the file. Simple.
I have moved VMs plenty of times, and run them from HDD, SSD, and USB drives. Flash to me would be slow for a windows 7 VM, but it would load...eventually. I boot off USB for hypervisors but they are light weight
I prefer 2.5" HD via USB for my less used VMs so I don't chew through all of my 256G SSD on the MBP. I keep only a few often used ones on the SSD.
To the OP...My SSD (Samsung 830, thread is here if you search) in my MBP makes it snappier in every day use over my i3 27" Imac with 1TB HDD. Only for Handbrake is the IMac faster, or if running more then 2 VMs since I have 16G of RAM in the desktop, and the i5 MBP I have tops out at 8.
- b
Just be careful about adding RAM to an SSD-equipped computer. Storage will be constrained to a mere 256GB (you might be used to TB magnitudes of storage on current HDD computers)... minus the RAM dump used for sleep mode (and minus TimeMachine buffer, page file, etc). So let's say you have 12GB of RAM, that's 8GB less available on your SSD than if you kept the original 4GB.
It is especially true, though, if you have a low capacity SSD (say 60 or 120GB) - 8GB is 13% of a 60GB SSD... So yeah with 256 you're quite good, but think about that !
What? I don't assume he'll be working on his machine while it sleeps anyway.
A good rule of thumb is to have ~10-15GB free space on your harddrive for caching, no matter how many gazillions of RAM you have.
If you are going to use bootcamp for windows in the same computer 256gb is quite necessary (specially if you are a developer and are going to have xcode + other suites). Otherwise I think 128gb is enough.
I'm a developer myself and have a macbook pro with 128GB SSD and it's more than enough as far as I keep away from windows and bootcamp.
As for processor I think i5 is enough for most things unless running heavy tasks or want to debug games in iOS simulator :-/
And as for ram, I have 4GB RAM myself and I miss 8GB most of the times (I usually have a lot of apps open at the same time) and paging ins and outs show I'd make a good use of these extra 4GB...
So, my 2 cents, in this order: SSD (256 if bootcamp, 128 otherwise) > 8GB RAM > i7
I'm a developer myself and have a macbook pro with 128GB SSD and it's more than enough as far as I keep away from windows and bootcamp.
As for processor I think i5 is enough for most things unless running heavy tasks or want to debug games in iOS simulator :-/
And as for ram, I have 4GB RAM myself and I miss 8GB most of the times (I usually have a lot of apps open at the same time) and paging ins and outs show I'd make a good use of these extra 4GB...
So, my 2 cents, in this order: SSD (256 if bootcamp, 128 otherwise) > 8GB RAM > i7