Star Trek: Alpha to Delta Quadrants & Everything In Between

[BigMcGuire]

Well, I don't disagree with you about Picard Season 2. I enjoy the action and technical or futuristic effects, but don't enjoy all of the time spend on emotional stuff.

Starting Season 2 Episode 10 right now. It hasn't been easy going. I don't recognize this as Trek. The writing is very poor. "Make sure she didn't borgify anything else" - lol. Sounds like a non-trekkie talking about trekkie stuff lol.

My friend told me how the actor who was the Govt official who held Guinan and Picard (kid who saw the Vulcans) was from the USS Relativity https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Jay_Karnes - I hadn't seen Voyager since HS so I didn't recognize it until he told me.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Starting Season 2 Episode 10 right now. It hasn't been easy going. I don't recognize this as Trek. The writing is very poor. "Make sure she didn't borgify anything else" - lol. Sounds like a non-trekkie talking about trekkie stuff lol.

My friend told me how the actor who was the Govt official who held Guinan and Picard (kid who saw the Vulcans) was from the USS Relativity https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Jay_Karnes - I hadn't seen Voyager since HS so I didn't recognize it until he told me.

Yes, it lacks the writing quality found in older episodes of Star Trek.

 

[Rafterman]

I respectfully disagree with your assertion in your first paragraph. You know the old adage “history is written by the victors.” Given the atrocities committed by the largely victorious imperialists during the colonial period, we tend to look at history through that perspective. They were a small portion of elites who, like most elites, were selfish, petty, and interested primarily in the acquisition of wealth and power. But that was NOT true of most humans back then. Even the European “commoners” were not like that, if you look at history from that point of view.

I think that we can build an egalitarian civilization that is sustainable and works to keep our worst impulses in check and at bay. I think we can even evolve to a point where we rid ourselves of the impulses entirely forever. I just am not very optimistic that we will, especially with the way things are going these days.

PS - not long ago, I was thinking of the TOS episode “Arena,” where we first met the Gorn. But we also met the Metreons. I recall that Kirk asked if they could meet and their respective civilizations become friends, but the Metreon he met said something like “not yet, you’re still too close to your savage roots, perhaps in a thousand years.” Well, in Discovery S3, a thousand years later, do you suppose the Metreons were like “uh, never mind.”

I appreciate the perspective.

But...A certain large segment of our society decided to boycott numerous stores because they recognized LGBT as people. In Florida, the Governor went to war with Disney because they opposed one of his policies. In the US, 50,000 died of gun violence. Homelessness, drug use, racism and bigotry...and no desire by the people to actually fix the issues. We are not only NOT better than 400 years ago, in many ways, we are WORSE.

I always thought most people are good, and while most don't go around committing crimes, too many are still "selfish and petty." Many are fearful of Star Trek's principles (socialism they call it). At least in the US. An "egalitarian" society is something to be fearful of to that large segment I mentioned above.

Maybe there will be an organization like Star Fleet, where only the best of the best go to in order to show the best principles of humanity. But what about those billions of souls outside of Star Fleet? Will they be as good and moral and honorable? History says "no."

 

[BigMcGuire]

I appreciate the perspective.

But...A certain large segment of our society decided to boycott numerous stores because they recognized LGBT as people. In Florida, the Governor went to war with Disney because they opposed one of his policies. In the US, 50,000 died of gun violence. Homelessness, drug use, racism and bigotry...and no desire by the people to actually fix the issues. We are not only NOT better than 400 years ago, in many ways, we are WORSE.

I always thought most people are good, and while most don't go around committing crimes, too many are still "selfish and petty." Many are fearful of Star Trek's principles (socialism they call it). At least in the US. An "egalitarian" society is something to be fearful of to that large segment I mentioned above.

Maybe there will be an organization like Star Fleet, where only the best of the best go to in order to show the best principles of humanity. But what about those billions of souls outside of Star Fleet? Will they be as good and moral and honorable? History says "no."

These are my thoughts and opinions - I respect those who think otherwise.

Here is how I see it:

I grew up with Star Trek. From the days of being a young child, Star Trek intrigued me for several reasons. It showed the best of humanity, it had technology, and it was the discovery of the unknown. Star Trek had a massive impact on young BigMcGuire - it was a big reason why I got into technology and IT at such a young age. One reason why I wanted to type so fast was to be like Data - spent countless hours on Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing to learn. Working together, respecting opinions, helping others, all had a big impact on me growing up.

In HS my friends and I spent countless hours talking about the Borg, hologram technologies, and Species 8472 in Voyager, etc.

I understand Star Trek is a bit utopian but nonetheless this is the foundation of the series. Humanity coming together despite our past, despite our flaws and trying to make the best of what we can and trying to do good in the galaxy. Plenty of episodes cover worlds that haven't figured out their problems yet and can't join Starfleet because of it.

Modern "Trek" throws all this away and not only disregards previous Trek (there are plenty of Youtube videos that cover how Modern Trek's lines directly conflict TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY - sometimes from the very same actor), but focuses on the worst part of humanity, negativity, hopelessness, and selfishness.

I think this is the biggest problem I have. The plot holes, the horrible writing, the disregard of previous Trek and the complete change of what Trek was founded on.

------------

Now don't get me wrong. As a middle aged human living on earth in 2023 in California in one of the largest, richest cities in the world... I am well aware of the evils of humanity and how we treat others. Do I think we can evolve to become Trek someday? No, I don't think so. But that doesn't mean I don't try. For me, religion also plays a part in why I try but that's a whole other topic of discussion. But as a young kid, Star Trek had a huge impact on me and why I'm in a tech field today and it shaped how I tried to live my life in a good way (I was/am a huge Trek fan).

I couldn't stand Discovery. Picard S1 & S2 was very offensive to me but I still managed to watch it. Looking forward to S3 as I hear it's better. Will try SNW and Lower Decks. But I'm ready to give up and just watch TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY going forward.


Apologies for the length of this post. Star Trek means a lot to me. My office is adorned with Star Trek pictures (TNG). 🙂

 

[decafjava]

As two characters in another favourite series of mine (albeit much more pessimistic) humanity is stuck in the forest of distrust, hatred, power seeking, and the cycle of retribution and violence. Even if one can't escape - we must try.

 

[tlnargi]

TNG Picard, absolutely. Not so sure about Picard in, uh, ST-Picard. He was already to do in the changeling insurgent lady (forgot her name) and sort out “the moral implications later.” Hell, even Sisko made a point of saying heroes don’t kill unless they’ve exhausted every option. YouTuber Major Grin had a great video on this point:

Edit: fixed emoji

Thanks for sharing.

I have a personal thesis that since Star Trek has been around for over 50yrs, you can use it as a sort of control to show the decline of American or rather Western civilization.

 

[Mousse]

TNG Picard, absolutely. Not so sure about Picard in, uh, ST-Picard. He was already to do in the changeling insurgent lady (forgot her name) and sort out “the moral implications later.” Hell, even Sisko made a point of saying heroes don’t kill unless they’ve exhausted every option. YouTuber Major Grin had a great video on this point:

😳😨😰😱

That's not my Captain Picard. That not my Dr. Crusher. What have they done to two of my favorite characters?😭

Gawd, this "NuTrek" stuff the goes against everything the Great Bird envisioned of the future. The only NuTrek worth watching [IMHO] is the webtoon Lower Deck, since that series retains the spirit of Star Trek.

[SARCASM]I can't wait for them to remake the Ghandi movie, Ghandi: No More Mr. Nice Guy. Have Ghandi leading a bayonet charge against British troops.[/SARCASM] Bonus points if they give him Dhalsim's warpaint and skull necklace.

 

[Rafterman]

Now that I look at that better picture of Mariner and Boimler on SNW (and in a previous post, I suggested they used that transporter trick from DS9 that got people to/from he alternate universe), I see more evidence that is what they might do. In the picture, Boimler is holding a device that looks alot like that device Smiley used to get from the mirror universe. Plus, in the trailer, Spock is doing the Vulcan thing to Boimler, as it appears Mariner, Boimler, Pike and Noonian-Singh are beaming somewhere. Maybe that's how we see Pike and Singh in the cartoon universe - they went back with them for some reason?

Now why they are moving back and forth, who knows. And is the cartoon universe really another version of the mirror universe? Expect jokes about 2D vs 3D 🙂

 

[sjsharksfan12]

Everything I'm seeing coming out of the SNW hype is making me excited for the season. I liked that they didn't overdo Boimler and Mariner and I and intregued how that crossover is going to work. I just started my rewatch of Season 1 last night to get ready for the new season.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Picard Season 3 - just started the first episode. Wow, what a change. Fixed the intro, a lot more focus on tech, finally the old communicators, referencing past Star Trek episodes in the storyline... Massive improvements.

Complaints so far? Wtf is with the shotgun cocking of the phaser rifle, and it being out of power after a few shots (DS9 - those things fired for a long time before running out). No proximity alerts on ships?

Cool. 😛 River FTW!

Oh my gosh a Space Station! 😀

 

[Rafterman]

Wtf is with the shotgun cocking of the phaser rifle, and it being out of power after a few shots (DS9 - those things fired for a long time before running out).

Because it looks cool?

Maybe they forgot to put the phaser rifle on it's charger before they went to bed the night before 😉

 

[cwerdna]

These are my thoughts and opinions - I respect those who think otherwise.

...
Modern "Trek" throws all this away and not only disregards previous Trek (there are plenty of Youtube videos that cover how Modern Trek's lines directly conflict TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY - sometimes from the very same actor), but focuses on the worst part of humanity, negativity, hopelessness, and selfishness.

I think this is the biggest problem I have. The plot holes, the horrible writing, the disregard of previous Trek and the complete change of what Trek was founded on.

------------

Now don't get me wrong. As a middle aged human living on earth in 2023 in California in one of the largest, richest cities in the world... I am well aware of the evils of humanity and how we treat others. Do I think we can evolve to become Trek someday? No, I don't think so. But that doesn't mean I don't try. For me, religion also plays a part in why I try but that's a whole other topic of discussion. But as a young kid, Star Trek had a huge impact on me and why I'm in a tech field today and it shaped how I tried to live my life in a good way (I was/am a huge Trek fan).

I couldn't stand Discovery. Picard S1 & S2 was very offensive to me but I still managed to watch it. Looking forward to S3 as I hear it's better. Will try SNW and Lower Decks. But I'm ready to give up and just watch TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY going forward.


Apologies for the length of this post. Star Trek means a lot to me. My office is adorned with Star Trek pictures (TNG). 🙂

Indeed I'm sure many of have heard opinions all over the map regarding the various shows, movies and JJ-verse.

might've been the video at work that someone posted regarding how Voyager somehow fired WAY more than the 38 photon torpedoes they had. The video claims they ended up with -85 torpedoes. 🙂

I enjoyed Disco except for season 4. I didn't find Picard offensive but the plot density was very uneven in season 1. S3 towards the end was a LOT of fan service. Wow! Many S3 eps ended with cliffhangers and uhh... "how are they going to get out of that situation?" There are quite a few cameos too.

If you liked TOS, you will probably like SNW. I can't speak to Lower Decks. I have no interest.

Well, not including Disco season 4, DS9 for me was the least favorite and Voyager next. I'm a huge TOS and TNG fan.

Regarding plot holes and YATI (Yet Another Trek Inconsistency), I just have to let a lot of them go. I didn't think the writing in a lot of newer Trek was "horrible" but Disco season 4 was not that great nor compelling. I fell behind and didn't feel too bothered I was behind. My expectations for Disco season 5 are low. Maybe I'll watch but if it exceeds my low expectations, that'd be a good thing.

I was about to repeat what I said earlier, but anyway... in Picard S3, there's no shortage of conflict, esp. between Starfleet officers.

Oh yeah, there are all the jokes about why the ships are so dimly lit inside and if they don't have lights in the 25th century.

If you haven't watched it already, watch https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/william-shatner-presents-chaos-on-the-bridge. It was entertaining and informative. I watched it when it was on Netfilx in the US (not anymore). I also enjoyed https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15766736/episodes?season=1&ref_=tt_eps_sn_1. Gates McFadden is the narrator.

Back to SNW, there's

. If you get geo-blocked, maybe https://www.startrek.com/videos/clip-charges-against-una-chin-riley-strange-new-worlds will work. If you haven't watched most of SNW S1 or rather the key eps behind this (I don't recall which ones besides ep 10), this is a bit of a spoiler/won't make that much sense. Maybe skip if you haven't finished SNW?

 

[Cave Man]

I'm making my way through Picard Season 2 and it ... it... ... it... just wow. I will grit my teeth to get through it and wait for Season 3.

Same. Got to episode 7 and had to turn it off at about 15 min in. Then a few weeks later I started it again and made it to 25 min before turning it off. That was about 3 months ago and I still haven't finished it. Painful to watch.

 

[Mousse]

I was about to repeat what I said earlier, but anyway... in Picard S3, there's no shortage of conflict, esp. between Starfleet officers.

Someone please tell me Star Trek: Picard happened in the Mirror Universe. Geordi restored ISS Enterprise-D, right?

I hate that Paramount is turning the Star Trek franchise into just another pew-pew action sci-fi.

 

[jdoll021]

These are my thoughts and opinions - I respect those who think otherwise.

Here is how I see it:

I grew up with Star Trek. From the days of being a young child, Star Trek intrigued me for several reasons. It showed the best of humanity, it had technology, and it was the discovery of the unknown. Star Trek had a massive impact on young BigMcGuire - it was a big reason why I got into technology and IT at such a young age. One reason why I wanted to type so fast was to be like Data - spent countless hours on Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing to learn. Working together, respecting opinions, helping others, all had a big impact on me growing up.

In HS my friends and I spent countless hours talking about the Borg, hologram technologies, and Species 8472 in Voyager, etc.

I understand Star Trek is a bit utopian but nonetheless this is the foundation of the series. Humanity coming together despite our past, despite our flaws and trying to make the best of what we can and trying to do good in the galaxy. Plenty of episodes cover worlds that haven't figured out their problems yet and can't join Starfleet because of it.

Modern "Trek" throws all this away and not only disregards previous Trek (there are plenty of Youtube videos that cover how Modern Trek's lines directly conflict TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY - sometimes from the very same actor), but focuses on the worst part of humanity, negativity, hopelessness, and selfishness.

I think this is the biggest problem I have. The plot holes, the horrible writing, the disregard of previous Trek and the complete change of what Trek was founded on.

------------

Now don't get me wrong. As a middle aged human living on earth in 2023 in California in one of the largest, richest cities in the world... I am well aware of the evils of humanity and how we treat others. Do I think we can evolve to become Trek someday? No, I don't think so. But that doesn't mean I don't try. For me, religion also plays a part in why I try but that's a whole other topic of discussion. But as a young kid, Star Trek had a huge impact on me and why I'm in a tech field today and it shaped how I tried to live my life in a good way (I was/am a huge Trek fan).

I couldn't stand Discovery. Picard S1 & S2 was very offensive to me but I still managed to watch it. Looking forward to S3 as I hear it's better. Will try SNW and Lower Decks. But I'm ready to give up and just watch TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY going forward.


Apologies for the length of this post. Star Trek means a lot to me. My office is adorned with Star Trek pictures (TNG). 🙂

Well said. I’m an engineer because of Star Trek. I grew up watching reruns of TOS, in addition to TNG, DS9, VOY, and even ENT. Yes Star Trek is utopian, and maybe it’ll take thousands of years to get there (if we last that long). But it gives us something to strive for. I used to ask people who are familiar with the Joss Whedon series Firefly (who usually know Star Trek pretty well) “which future world would you prefer? Star Trek or Firefly?”

Like the old saying goes, “shoot for the moon!” Even if you don’t make it, you might at least make it to orbit and that’s already much better than where you were before and now you’re that much closer to the moon. Or, as TNG Picard might say, “work to better yourself and humanity as a whole.” It’s been the driving force for most of my life and part of the reason why I went into public service.”

PS - howdy neighbor! 😁 I live in the state’s capital but visiting relatives in the LA area this weekend.

 

[jdoll021]

Because it looks cool?

Maybe they forgot to put the phaser rifle on it's charger before they went to bed the night before 😉

Meh, I thought the ST:FC phaser rifles looked pretty dang cool without the needless weapon cocking that seems to be common in SciFi. That cliché wore out its welcome ages ago.

 

[jdoll021]

Thanks for sharing.

I have a personal thesis that since Star Trek has been around for over 50yrs, you can use it as a sort of control to show the decline of American or rather Western civilization.

You’re welcome. 😊

Yeah, I can see it being used by future historians as a sort of allegory or narrative chronicling of the rise and fall of American postwar civilization. I’m sure the rise and fall of Western imperialism will be studied for centuries just like we still study the rise and fall of Roman imperialism today. Maybe our next try at democracy will be a case of “third times the charm!” Just wish I could be alive to see it.

 

[jdoll021]

As two characters in another favourite series of mine (albeit much more pessimistic) humanity is stuck in the forest of distrust, hatred, power seeking, and the cycle of retribution and violence. Even if one can't escape - we must try.

Which series?

 

[Rafterman]

might've been the video at work that someone posted regarding how Voyager somehow fired WAY more than the 38 photon torpedoes they had. The video claims they ended up with -85 torpedoes. 🙂

I think the ST writer's guide says that ships can replicate shell casings and drain anti-matter from the engines to make more torpedoes on the fly.

 

[cwerdna]

LOL! The beginning of the video mentions they have only 38 torpedoes and no way to replace them after they're gone... Who knows? I'm guessing they just decided to stop counting or never bothered...

 

[cwerdna]

Same. Got to episode 7 and had to turn it off at about 15 min in. Then a few weeks later I started it again and made it to 25 min before turning it off. That was about 3 months ago and I still haven't finished it. Painful to watch.

Maybe just put it on hold and skip to season 3. You don't really need to know what happened in S2 for S3.

 

[Rafterman]

You guys are harsh. I don't think I ever watched a show that was "painful" or I quit on in the middle of. Usually, after the first episode, I decide if I like something or not. Picard Seasons 1 and 2 were perfectly OK. Not my favorite, but certainly not as horrible as everyone says. Not everyone likes every ST series.

 

[cwerdna]

I could see quitting in the middle of Disco season 4...

I never did watch all of Voyager and DS9. I've probably seen about 1/2 of DS9 and 2/3 of Voyager.

 

[BigMcGuire]

You guys are harsh. I don't think I ever watched a show that was "painful" or I quit on in the middle of. Usually, after the first episode, I decide if I like something or not. Picard Seasons 1 and 2 were perfectly OK. Not my favorite, but certainly not as horrible as everyone says. Not everyone likes every ST series.

It's definitely possible lol. I have a friend who is a Trekkie and like you he definitely thought Picard Season 1-2 was bad but not "painful" like I described it.

Those seasons were extremely painful as a huge Trekkie fan for me. Not only the bad acting, lines, but they didn't even try to make it Trek, just a cheap sci-fi show. Picard Season 3 - you can tell they actually tried - referenced past episodes, made it more Trek like.

 

[decafjava]

Which series?

Attack on Titan where my avatar comes from. A secondary character (though very popular) Sasha Braus is killed in a war by a child soldier (all fictional btw) and without going into detail is confronted by the young woman's parents who forgive her. My avatar btw of the main character Eren Jeager is an interesting contrast to the main character of another great anime Vinland Saga, Thorfinn Thorfinn Karlsefni (very loosely historically based). Both suffer childhood trauma and both respond in violence, while Eren goes on to commit horrendous acts (for what he thinks are justifiable reasons) Thorfinn eventually turns his back on violence and seeks to find peace. Both highly recommended if you like anime.