Star Trek: Alpha to Delta Quadrants & Everything In Between

[Bug-Creator]

It’s strange, this is a hit for them, yet they are ending it and instead are trying to shove the academy show down our throats.

Ah, StarTrekAcadamy the hate-of-the-week after just seeing 1 short trailer.

As to the end of StrangeNewWorld, it is the same as with Andor in that other universe, being a prequel with a finite amount of story to tell is a key aspect to their success.

Just imagine if the decided to retcon the whole story of Pike and younger Spock on a previous "5 year mission" and how it ended. Would have been easy, just let Pike go "f##k the future" in one of the episodes where he had the chance and simply retell some more TOS stories with Cpt Pike.

Pitchforks would have been out.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Ah, StarTrekAcadamy the hate-of-the-week after just seeing 1 short trailer.

As to the end of StrangeNewWorld, it is the same as with Andor in that other universe, being a prequel with a finite amount of story to tell is a key aspect to their success.

I haven't yet caught the final couple seasons of SNW, but conceptually this was never going to be a 7-season show, for the reasons you mention. It was always going to end within that predetermined window. TNG ended when it was still in good form, but I think the writers were tiring by the end of season 7 (and getting into other Trek writing), and had they kept going with the show we might have seen the quality decline.

I was skeptical LD, but now having watched it I think that series, while it ended well, probably had more in the tank.

I'm concerned I won't like Academy, but I'll wait to have a concrete opinion until I've watched it.

 

[CWallace]

Because every streaming show has to be a "prestige" show to justify the subscription fee, the production costs are so much higher than they are for network television so season lengths are significantly shorter. Discovery could hit $20 million for their most effects-heavy episodes and Academy is said to be similar when taking into account set construction and such (production costs are expected to drop by one-third to one-half by Season Two).

Of course, even $20 million seems like a bargain compared to the $50-60 million Netflix dropped on the final season of Stranger Things.

 

[maflynn]

As to the end of StrangeNewWorld, it is the same as with Andor in that other universe, being a prequel with a finite amount of story to tell is a key aspect to their success.

I think they could have kept StrangeNewWorlds going, or shifted with a different captain and ship.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

So, in other words, I could live comfortably for a thousand years (assuming I could live that long) on what it costs to film a single TV episode.

I think they could have kept StrangeNewWorlds going, or shifted with a different captain and ship.

They could have - but chronologically that would precisely overlap with TOS and essentially gave been a new show. Risky.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Ah, StarTrekAcadamy the hate-of-the-week after just seeing 1 short trailer.

As to the end of StrangeNewWorld, it is the same as with Andor in that other universe, being a prequel with a finite amount of story to tell is a key aspect to their success.

Just imagine if the decided to retcon the whole story of Pike and younger Spock on a previous "5 year mission" and how it ended. Would have been easy, just let Pike go "f##k the future" in one of the episodes where he had the chance and simply retell some more TOS stories with Cpt Pike.

Pitchforks would have been out.

The way I have heard it put is (and agree with) by someone who has watched all of modern and original Trek ... "modern Star Trek is Star Trek made by people who don't like or understand Star Trek for people who don't like or understand Star Trek."

I'm only 40 so maybe I'm an old fart, fine - but I agree with that based on what I've seen.

Pitchforks ? Heh heh. Eh, no... I'm not lifting a finger to do anything. But I sure as hell don't like what I see lol.

 

[bradl]

The way I have heard it put is (and agree with) by someone who has watched all of modern and original Trek ... "modern Star Trek is Star Trek made by people who don't like or understand Star Trek for people who don't like or understand Star Trek."

I'm only 40 so maybe I'm an old fart, fine - but I agree with that based on what I've seen.

Pitchforks ? Heh heh. Eh, no... I'm not lifting a finger to do anything. But I sure as hell don't like what I see lol.

Some interesting points and unanswered questions from the trailers that I've seen.

If you look at the list of officers that were on the wall there.. You'll notice a couple of interesting promotions and a non-promotion:

• After all of those years, Harry Kim finally gets promoted to Admiral;
• Crazily enough, Lt. Jr Grade Wesley Crusher.
• Commander Samantha Wildman (she was still an Ensign on Voyager).
• Lt. Cmdr B'Lonna Torres.
• Lt. Nog.

Interestingly enough, Data, Tom Paris, and Julian Bashir still have not been promoted. What gets me here are a couple of things. It was noted that Star Trek: Online was canon to the entire Star Trek timeline, so if that was the case, this has to happen between Nog's promotion to Captain and the end of VOY. This is also bouyed by the fact that Geordi is still at the rank of Commander, putting this after Voyager and before ST: Picard. If that indeed is true, Wesley was already gone from Starfleet and off with the Traveler during this time, so how could he have come back to Starfleet, earned a commission, and then went off again for Picard?

And if Harry and Samantha were the same rank all the way through VOY, how did he get from Ensign to Admiral in such a short period of time, outranking Geordi in his move from Commander to Commodore?

EDIT: They also show Seven of Nine being promoted to Captain. She wasn't promoted to Captain until the last episode of Picard.

A LOT of unanswered questions here, as they now have a lot of continuity problems.

BL.

 

[CWallace]

Interestingly enough, Data, Tom Paris, and Julian Bashir still have not been promoted.

Data was KIA as a Lieutenant Commander in Star Trek: Nemesis. And Tom Paris and Julian Bashir may have left the service at those ranks.

What gets me here are a couple of things. It was noted that Star Trek: Online was canon to the entire Star Trek timeline, so if that was the case, this has to happen between Nog's promotion to Captain and the end of VOY. This is also bouyed by the fact that Geordi is still at the rank of Commander, putting this after Voyager and before ST: Picard. If that indeed is true, Wesley was already gone from Starfleet and off with the Traveler during this time, so how could he have come back to Starfleet, earned a commission, and then went off again for Picard?

Wesley was in uniform at Riker and Troi's wedding in Star Trek: Nemesis and it looks like he had the rank of Lieutenant Junior Grade. Omitted footage had him as part of the Engineering division aboard the USS Titan, so he apparently did rejoin Starfleet and earn his commission and then stayed long enough to be promoted to LTJG before leaving the service at a future date and returning to the Travelers.

And if Harry and Samantha were the same rank all the way through VOY, how did he get from Ensign to Admiral in such a short period of time, outranking Geordi in his move from Commander to Commodore?

It depends on his service record. He was likely immediately promoted to full Lieutenant when Voyager returned and taking into account Time in Grade and his service aboard Voyager, he likely made Lieutenant Commander within a couple of years of returning from the Delta Quadrant and if he switched to the Command Track and showed sufficient aptitude as a Second Officer and Executive Officer, within a decade he was likely a Captain with his own command. Flag Rank progression would depend on his duty rosters, but if he was attached to major commands or important projects, he could gain four stars within another 20 years.

 

[cwerdna]

The way I have heard it put is (and agree with) by someone who has watched all of modern and original Trek ... "modern Star Trek is Star Trek made by people who don't like or understand Star Trek for people who don't like or understand Star Trek."

I'm only 40 so maybe I'm an old fart, fine - but I agree with that based on what I've seen.

Pitchforks ? Heh heh. Eh, no... I'm not lifting a finger to do anything. But I sure as hell don't like what I see lol.

Interesting.. FWIW, I skimmed https://trekmovie.com/2026/01/08/ea...haracters-star-trek-lore-and-different-tones/ last night.
"Paramount has made the first six episodes of ‘Star Trek: Starfleet Academy’ available to members of the media in advance of the January 15 premiere. They have allowed for early reviews to coincide with Tuesday night’s season premiere event at the Museum of Natural History in New York. The following has minor spoilers, and as per usual, TrekMovie will post extensive recap/reviews and podcast discussions for each individual episode, starting on Thursday, January 15..."

I'm not enthusiastic about this enough to bother turning back on Paramount+ when it airs. I will wait for reviews. But (maybe I've said this before), since to me Disco S4 was a waste of time, I didn't bother with S5 (based on what someone at work told me who'd seen all of Disco). So, given that Academy is in the 31st century and Disco went there.... umm, I'm not too optimistic.

I'm saying this as a huge Trek fan (favorites are TOS and TNG but I liked Enterprise and Picard S3).

 

[maflynn]

The way I have heard it put is (and agree with) by someone who has watched all of modern and original Trek ... "modern Star Trek is Star Trek made by people who don't like or understand Star Trek for people who don't like or understand Star Trek."

Here's the issue as I see it, and this includes Star Wars.

The producers want a bigger audience, and so they're producing shows, and series that fall outside of the mold of franchise.

The question is, how many people like science fiction but didn't care for the original series (TOS/TNG/DS9/etc)? Are these the people Paramount is trying to reach? I think if you like scifi, you'll largely enjoy the traditional star trek type shows.

If you're not a scifi fan, is this the market they're chasing? Will a non-scifi fan really watch a space show that has teenage angst as the theme?

What Star Trek and Star Wars really needs to do, is lean into their fanbase, not attack them. What's happening now is you're turning off your most ardent fans, and the non-fans are largely not coming to watch. Its a lose-lose situation

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

@maflynn You make a lot of good points there.

I suspect they are seeking viewers, not appeasement of the existing customer base.

I also suspect that what all of these shows are trying for is to reach the sort of cross-over appeal that the reboot of Battlestar Galactica achieved. That show was widely watched by demographics far beyond traditional Sci-Fi audiences.

 

[Euroamerican]

Agreed, Obi. I'm in the demographic that grew up on TOS, and found even TNG a bit of stretch.... Grew to accept that one, but DSG and beyond have rarely peaked my interest.

I just watch the old original series episodes if they happen to come up on terrestrial TV. Other than that, I'm pretty much done with it.

 

[wonderings]

To me it seems like they are looking for an audience where there has not been an audience before. The shows look like CGI garbage and the lack of consistency in uniforms has always driven me nuts. More so with the newer series. Not sure what time frames we are looking at but it is like Star Fleet is going through constant rebranding. I could see the uniforms change and evolve, but he logo itself should be much more consistent to retain the history of Star Fleet and their values while the universe changes, that stays the same.

With the amount of time travel and altering of the time lines who is really dead and who is really alive? Who is what rank and did what is all up in the air. I would love them to scrap everything ever done under the Star Trek name and come at it with a fresh writing to create a consistent world/universe and universe that makes sense and has people who actually feel like real people with real problems. I do a moderate amount of reading, mainly classics ranging from The Odyssey and newer... obviously. What I see in all these stories is the problems humanity goes through does not really change. Our struggles are real and seemingly eternal no matter how advanced or how barbaric the society you live in. Star Trek plays out a lot like they have actually surmounted the human condition and yet really have not. The idea of Star Trek is fantastic in my opinion, it just just all layers and mumbo jumbo that conveniently saves the day now.

 

[Non-Euclidean]

OK, I stumbled into these 2 links yesterday. Some great Star Trek Phase II/ST TMP era stuff.

An article about the episodes for Star Trek Phase II. Some of these will be familiar.

19 lost episodes of 'Star Trek': The adventures of Captain Kirk and the Enterprise you've never seen



An intriguing article about the actor whose role got axed from the series/movie, when Nimoy came back.

'Star Trek' and the Actor Who Nearly Replaced Mr. Spock in the 1970s | Woman's World

 

[Non-Euclidean]

The way I have heard it put is (and agree with) by someone who has watched all of modern and original Trek ... "modern Star Trek is Star Trek made by people who don't like or understand Star Trek for people who don't like or understand Star Trek."

I'm only 40 so maybe I'm an old fart, fine - but I agree with that based on what I've seen.

Pitchforks ? Heh heh. Eh, no... I'm not lifting a finger to do anything. But I sure as hell don't like what I see lol.

I would say that could apply to STD, and the abomination Section 31, but not so much to SNW.

 

[Non-Euclidean]

@maflynn You make a lot of good points there.

I suspect they are seeking viewers, not appeasement of the existing customer base.

I also suspect that what all of these shows are trying for is to reach the sort of cross-over appeal that the reboot of Battlestar Galactica achieved. That show was widely watched by demographics far beyond traditional Sci-Fi audiences.

Agreed.

The existing fanbase is taken for granted.

I did subscribe to Paramount and dropped it a year ago.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

When it comes to continuity I try to give Trek writers the benefit of the doubt. In the Blu-ray TNG extras the writers talk about continuity checks being a time consuming process by season 7, and since then there have been what, 7 more trek series not counting movies?

So it’s gotten complicated. This is also why I am skeptical of time travel plots - they really muddy the waters when it comes to continuity.

 

[CWallace]

The Star Wars and Star Trek shows are tremendously expensive to produce and the original fanbases started watching 30 (SW Prequels), 40 (TNG), 50 (SW Originals) or 60 years ago (TOS) so they're now likely in their 50s-80s and those demographics are of lesser interest to most advertisers. Plus they are literally ageing out/dying off so if the franchises are to continue, they need to find new, younger viewers with different ideas of what makes "compelling" television than the older generations.

So they have to aim new shows for younger audiences that advertisers prefer to target. And when you consider the prevalence of "second screen" viewers in those audiences, the studios need to tailor the content even more toward them to get them to watch the television screen rather than their smartphone screen.

Anyway, it sounds like Alex Kurtzman expects to have his contract renewed.

Star Trek Franchise Head Alex Kurtzman Gave Us An Update On His Contract And How He Feels About His Future

We have some insight into what's to come.

www.cinemablend.com

 

[Mousse]

• After all of those years, Harry Kim finally gets promoted to Admiral;

NoOOoOoo...He was the Eternal Ensign.😘

• Crazily enough, Lt. Jr Grade Wesley Crusher.

He left with the Traveler so he was no longer around to advance in rank. *looks left, then right* *leans in conspiratorial* Wesley is probably holed up in a pocket universe leading the fight in the Temporal Cold War. That's what I like to think happen.🤗

• Lt. Cmdr B'Lonna Torres.

Was she ever in Star Fleet?🤔 I know it's customary for the Chief Engineer to be at least a Lt. Cmdr.

• Lt. Nog.

So Capt. Nog in Jake's alternate timeline [DS9: The Visitor] never happened.😢

Interestingly enough, Data, Tom Paris, and Julian Bashir still have not been promoted.

Data could never attain the rank of Captain because he wouldn't be able to carry out diplomatic duties that is a required. The guy can't read the room, man.😉 Captain Data starts yet another war due to diplomatic faux pas.😂 I don't know why I couldn't make Commander, though. One of the test requires that he order an officer to their death. He would have had no problem with that, because "the needs of the many out weighs the needs of the few or the one."

Tom Paris was a criminal.

Bashir was augmented. We know how Star Fleet views on the genetically enhanced. He's lucky they didn't revoke his commission.

A LOT of unanswered questions here, as they now have a lot of continuity problems.

I hate when they try to retcon because the new people don't share Gene's vision of the kumbaya future.

 

[bradl]

NoOOoOoo...He was the Eternal Ensign.😘

That title now belongs to Ezri Dax.

He left with the Traveler so he was no longer around to advance in rank. *looks left, then right* *leans in conspiratorial* Wesley is probably holed up in a pocket universe leading the fight in the Temporal Cold War. That's what I like to think happen.🤗

If what others said is right (Nemesis was so bad that I never saw it or Insurrection) and Wesley was in a Starfleet Uniform during Riker's and Troi's wedding, then he had to have returned to Starfleet Academy sometime after Season 7 and Nemesis, because he never made it past Ensign in rank and Cadet at the Academy. So how his return and promotions had occurred, and them him leaving again and returning in Picard hasn't been depicted, which doesn't give to any explanation for him..

Was she ever in Star Fleet?🤔 I know it's customary for the Chief Engineer to be at least a Lt. Cmdr.

She was in the Academy, and dropped out prior to graduation.. I want to say she was a 2nd year student at the Academy.

So Capt. Nog in Jake's alternate timeline [DS9: The Visitor] never happened.😢

Nope.. that didn't.. But if this is right, then nothing in ST: Online was canon either, leaving his promotion to Captain out as well..

Data could never attain the rank of Captain because he wouldn't be able to carry out diplomatic duties that is a required. The guy can't read the room, man.😉 Captain Data starts yet another war due to diplomatic faux pas.😂 I don't know why I couldn't make Commander, though. One of the test requires that he order an officer to their death. He would have had no problem with that, because "the needs of the many out weighs the needs of the few or the one."

I don't know.. He did command one ship during Redemption, Pt. 2, and took it upon himself to use his good judgment and disobey direct orders to stop a Romulan invasion. But I don't remember him getting any type of promotion, even up to and through Picard.

Tom Paris was a criminal.

That got promoted, demoted, and promoted again, while Kim remained an Ensign.

Bashir was augmented. We know how Star Fleet views on the genetically enhanced. He's lucky they didn't revoke his commission.

Which is crazy, seeing that both Hugh and Icheb were promoted!

I hate when they try to retcon because the new people don't share Gene's vision of the kumbaya future.

Imagine all of the sadness when you notice that Geordi La Forge's name is right above a Silva La Forge, and everyone being upset that he didn't actually marry Leah Brahms.

BL.

 

[CWallace]

Which is crazy, seeing that both Hugh and Icheb were promoted!

To be fair, both of them were physically augmented, not genetically augmented. Starfleet and the Federation are okay with the former.

 

[wonderings]

When it comes to continuity I try to give Trek writers the benefit of the doubt. In the Blu-ray TNG extras the writers talk about continuity checks being a time consuming process by season 7, and since then there have been what, 7 more trek series not counting movies?

So it’s gotten complicated. This is also why I am skeptical of time travel plots - they really muddy the waters when it comes to continuity.

Then they should stop doing it. Saying it is too hard is not an excuse for writers, it is just an excuse because they cannot maintain a consistent cohesive universe. The next question is what has made it complicated? I think a big part of it is the time travel episodes. How many times does that happen? Too many to count and how many times would the entire series be altered by time travel in the various shows and movies at various time periods. It has gotten silly and dumb and that is hard to keep straight when you use these cheap plot points for stories. If I could start Star Trek over completely I would love for it to have the tone of the latest Battlestar Galactica series. The show was brilliant, great writing with humans that felt real going through real problems while set in this sci fi backdrop. The sci fi tech is not the main character as it is so many times in Star Trek. It was a great stage for great story telling.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Then they should stop doing it.

I agree that time travel episodes can be a real problem, and at this point they’ve been overdone.

But when done right (TNG’s Yesterday’s Enterprise, for example), they can be excellent.

If I could start Star Trek over completely I would love for it to have the tone of the latest Battlestar Galactica series.

This is purely personal opinion, but I disagree. BG was a well-done show but the world and stories are the antithesis of Trek.

 

[wonderings]

I agree that time travel episodes can be a real problem, and at this point they’ve been overdone.

But when done right (TNG’s Yesterday’s Enterprise, for example), they can be excellent.




This is purely personal opinion, but I disagree. BG was a well-done show but the world and stories are the antithesis of Trek.

You can keep the worlds and races in Trek but deal with them in a believable way. Deal with real issues in real human ways. BG did that, lots of tense moments with characters and dealing with a whole host of interesting things from religion to politics and just about everything else.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

You can keep the worlds and races in Trek but deal with them in a believable way. Deal with real issues in real human ways. BG did that, lots of tense moments with characters and dealing with a whole host of interesting things from religion to politics and just about everything else.

I think Trek does that. But Trek is not intended to be primarily about conflict between characters in the more traditional sense. This is something that caused friction between Roddenberry and his writers.

Most other sci-fi shows are more like BG in that sense, so (again, just a personal opinion), I don’t think Trek should go that route. If it does it will lose the qualities that made it unique (whether you like them or not).

On the other hand, I think the traditions / conventions / fashions of writing and TV will always be tugging in that direction. If Trek becomes totally character driven, or dystopian, or focused on ‘save the universe’ or ‘survival’ stories, it’s not Trek anymore.

We can agree to disagree on that, it’s just my take.