MP 1,1-5,1 State of the current in spinners?

[mattspace]

Hi Folks,

So just wondering what spinning drives people are putting in their sleds at the moment - I've been all WD up until now, but with the SMR/CMR thing, and realising my recent 6TB WD-Red is an SMR drive, I'm considering further afield.

So looking for a dedicated photo (50mb RAWS) library drive in the 4-6TB range - goals are reliable, relatively fast, and relatively quiet.

I'm mainly thinking the WD Red Pro, or the Seagate Ironwolf Pro (slightly leaning towards Ironwolf, which is a shock to me, as I swore off Seagate years ago after a clicking failure).

I'll happy to give up the speed advantage of something like the WD Black for a bit more quiet, and reliability, and possibly a little less power and heat etc.

Happy to hear anyone's experiences with any of these, or other options.

Thanks.

 

[Snow Tiger]

Spinners gonna spin .

classic Mac Pros should support up to 16TB 3.5" SATA HDD , the current highest capacity . 14TB has been verified .

All cMPs must have special carriers for 6TB and higher capacity drives , as the mounting points changed .

Available from OWC ( cMP 2009-12 ) or you can 3D print your own ( cMP 2006-2012 ) .

There are only a handful of drive manufacturers left : WD , Seagate , Toshiba . Everyone else simply rebadges .

You would be wise to know the difference between Enterprise Class and everything else . There is a huge difference in durability between the two classes . Often by a factor of ten .

Here's a trick ! Enterprise class 3.5" SATA HDDs are widely available on eBay at a discount . They often have just 20 or 30 hours on them . Why ? They failed their SMART suite of tests at the data center are thus are rejected . Even if it just failed one minor attribute in the suite .

The drives are not technically perfect , but are great for consumer and small business use . They will pass Disk Utility , which has a short SMART test feature .

Here's an example :

6TB HGST HUS726060ALE610 .

This particular drive is unusual as it can be mounted onto our cMP factory HDD carriers .

If you want to discover exactly what attribute ( if any ) failed , grab a copy of Volitans SMART utility . This utility is great for all other mechanicals as well .

SMART Utility | Volitans Software

www.volitans-software.com

 

[kohlson]

I bought an enterprise 4TB Seagate a few months back. The good news was it was $80 for a 7200/256MB drive. It's more than 2x faster than the slower 5400/64MB drives I have. The bad news: it had 400 hours on it, and some number of errors (lpstat I think). And it was 3 years old. When I pointed this out to the vendor, they were responsive, offered a discount, or full refund. After researching the errors, I decided I could live with it.
In the end I decided to keep it. But this seems to fit the scenario @Snow Tiger describes above.

 

[mattspace]

Spinners gonna spin .

classic Mac Pros should support up to 16TB 3.5" SATA HDD , the current highest capacity . 14TB has been verified .

All cMPs must have special sleds for 6TB and higher capacity drives , as the mounting points changed .

Available from OWC or you can 3D print your own .

There are only a handful of drive manufacturers left : WD , Seagate , Toshiba . Everyone else simply rebadges .

You would be wise to know the difference between Enterprise Class and everything else . There is a huge difference in durability between the two classes . Often by a factor of ten .

Here's a trick ! Enterprise class 3.5" SATA HDDs are widely available on eBay at a discount . They often have just 20 or 30 hours on them . Why ? They failed their SMART suite of tests at the data center are thus are rejected . Even if it just one minor attribute in the suite .

The drives are not technically perfect , but are great for consumer and small business use . They will pass Disk Utility , which has a short SMART test feature .

Here's an example :

6TB HGST HUS726060ALE610 .

If you want to discover exactly what attribute ( if any ) failed , grab a copy of Volitans SMART utility . This utility is great for all other mechanicals as well .

SMART Utility | Volitans Software

www.volitans-software.com

Thanks - 4-6 is all I'm really looking for now, current library is about 1.7tb, so 4 gives me room to grow, and lets me keep the same sleds, but the 6tb OWC sled isn't a killer price-wise.

I'm comfortable with the reliability etc profile of the Red Pro / Ironwolf Pro (256mb cache, 7200rpm), whether they qualify as enterprise or not - everything on them will be time machine backed up onto two TM drives, and cloned onto a third drive. I'm not going to put my most important content on a secondhand / SMART-failed drive, regardless of how few hours its had, just for peace of mind's sake. The machine they're in is slept every night, so it's not a 24/7 high demand server.

I've got DriveDX taking care of monitoring my drives - though it seems to be flagging issues on a couple of WD Greens, but I'm not sure if they're on the way out, or it's just misinterpreting aggressive power saving features as problems.

Thanks for the tips.

Cheers,

 

[Snow Tiger]

I'm not going to put my most important content on a secondhand / SMART-failed drive, regardless of how few hours its had, just for peace of mind's sake.

There are critical and noncritical attributes with SMART .

A drive that has a noncritical attribute that is out of range is not necessarily dangerous to deploy . It all depends which one .

For instance , the failed attribute might be the spin up time or seek time is not as fast as normal . As long as the user's workflow is not affected , it's not a big deal .

A five year old used Enterprise class mechanical drive is probably still in very good shape . I'd expect it to last a decade from date of original manufacture in a personal workstation environment .

A five year old non-Enterprise grade drive is probably on its final dying gasp .

 

[Snow Tiger]

In case anyone is interested in what a real SMART report looks like run in macOS .

This is a ten year old factory installed Mac Pro 4,1 ( 2009 ) 640GB mechanical .

It's in pretty good shape and passed both its short and long tests .

41,000 hours of being powered on .

This is not an enterprise grade drive . It is a Caviar Blue WD .

macOS SMART tests are not as sophisticated as the better Windows and Linux utilities , though .

 

[eyoungren]

I joined the MP community early last week when my 2009 cMP got delivered. It's a 4,1 that I flashed to a 5,1 and it's currently on High Sierra with 32GB ram.

The drives I pulled from my old PowerMac G5 Quad. They are both WD RE drives, which do not seem to be on the list. My boot drive is 2TB and my second drive is 4TB.

I am still partial to WD.

I do own three WD Reds, two are 1TB and in a RAID enclosure for my PowerMac G3 server. The third one is 3TB, so I guess that makes it SMC. However, it's a single drive in an external enclosure attached to a Win 10 Thinkpad.

I also have three WD Greens (again, not on that list). Two are 3TB and are in my PowerMac G4 which is serving as a glorified NAS, while the other is a 1TB that is raided with an Apple branded 1TB drive (for a 2TB RAID) in an external enclosure attached to my 2009 Mac Mini.

Finally, I have 2 1TB Blues in a 2.3 DC G5 and a 1TB Black as a secondary drive in a 2.7 G5.

So as clear as I can see according to that table, I've only got one drive that has SMC. That WD Red 3TB does not see a lot of writes. It's mainly holding a Dropbox folder.
[automerge]1588181953[/automerge]

In case anyone is interested in what a real SMART report looks like run in macOS .

This is a ten year old factory installed Mac Pro 4,1 ( 2009 ) 640GB mechanical .


View attachment 910514

It's in pretty good shape and passed both its short and long tests .

41,000 hours of being powered on .

This is not an enterprise grade drive . It is a Caviar Blue WD .

macOS SMART tests are not as sophisticated as the better Windows and Linux utilities , though .

Is that using the SMART Utility app? Been using that for years on my PowerMacs.

 

[Snow Tiger]

I joined the MP community early last week when my 2009 cMP got delivered. It's a 4,1 that I flashed to a 5,1 and it's currently on High Sierra with 32GB ram.

The drives I pulled from my old PowerMac G5 Quad. They are both WD RE drives, which do not seem to be on the list. My boot drive is 2TB and my second drive is 4TB.

I am still partial to WD.

I do own three WD Reds, two are 1TB and in a RAID enclosure for my PowerMac G3 server. The third one is 3TB, so I guess that makes it SMC. However, it's a single drive in an external enclosure attached to a Win 10 Thinkpad.

I also have three WD Greens (again, not on that list). Two are 3TB and are in my PowerMac G4 which is serving as a glorified NAS, while the other is a 1TB that is raided with an Apple branded 1TB drive (for a 2TB RAID) in an external enclosure attached to my 2009 Mac Mini.

Finally, I have 2 1TB Blues in a 2.3 DC G5 and a 1TB Black as a secondary drive in a 2.7 G5.

So as clear as I can see according to that table, I've only got one drive that has SMC. That WD Red 3TB does not see a lot of writes. It's mainly holding a Dropbox folder.
[automerge]1588181953[/automerge]

Is that using the SMART Utility app? Been using that for years on my PowerMacs.

Upgrade your Mac's boot ROM to version 144.0.0.0.0 , install a 1TB Intel 660p NVMe SSD in a PCIe adapter with a heatsink and load a copy of Mojave onto it . You will thank me . You also need a metal capable GPU for this .

 

[tsialex]

macOS SMART tests are not as sophisticated as the better Windows and Linux utilities , though .

You can always install smartmon-tools and have headaches with so much data from SMART.

 

[Snow Tiger]

You can always install smartmon-tools and have headaches with so much data from SMART.

Does this run in terminal or does it have a GUI ? And , will I lose anything if I choose GUI ?

 

[eyoungren]

Upgrade your Mac's boot ROM to version 144.0.0.0.0 , install a 1TB Intel 660p NVMe SSD in a PCIe adapter with a heatsink and load a copy of Mojave onto it . You will thank me . You also need a metal capable GPU for this .

I have a plan to update to Mojave. I just need the money for a Metal capable GPU first. As far as an SSD, I'm comfortable with spinners right now. Although I do have an SSD in my 2008 MBP and an mSATA SSD in my 17" PowerBook G4.

 

[tsialex]

Does this run in terminal or does it have a GUI ? And , will I lose anything if I choose GUI ?

It's a command line tool. Smartmon-tools is the reference app for SMART on Unix.

smartmontools

www.smartmontools.org

Brew has it.

 

[Snow Tiger]

I have a plan to update to Mojave. I just need the money for a Metal capable GPU first. As far as an SSD, I'm comfortable with spinners right now. Although I do have an SSD in my 2008 MBP and an mSATA SSD in my 17" PowerBook G4.

There are some powerful brand new GPUs available for around $125-150 .

I currently love the RX570 . It has most of the power of the RX580 at a discounted price . If you need some specific compatible models , please ask .
[automerge]1588184470[/automerge]

It's a command line tool. Smartmon-tools is the reference app for SMART on Unix.

smartmontools

www.smartmontools.org

Brew has it.

Oh , I'm going to love this little toy .

I just started to read the manual and it claims the program supports NVMe SSDs in macOS , but only the SMART and Controller information pages .

I guess that means the SMART test won't actually run yet with this type of drive in our Systems .

 

[tsialex]

Oh , I'm going to love this little toy .

I just started to read the manual and it claims the program supports NVMe SSDs in macOS , but only the SMART and Controller information pages .

I guess that means the SMART test won't actually run yet with this type of drive in our Systems .

Direct hardware access is a lot easier with Linux, but you already have almost everything you need to diagnose SMART with macOS version of smartmontools. Apple is doing a lot better with lately, btw.